One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - On Going Electro Shock Therapy in America

originally posted by: rickymouse
Holding onto a spark plug wire on a small engine while someone pulls it over is a lot cheaper than going to electroshock treatment.

It's not the shock, it's the seizure. You can get that a number of ways, passing a current through your head like this, causing a drop in blood sugar (at one time they used insulin instead of shocks), or a gas like flurothyl or PTZ. There are some injectable meds that can be used as well.

The idea, I suppose, is that you're causing a system crash and restart, trying to get the default mode networks reset properly. It's sort of crude, like pulling the power cord out to get your operating system's attention - you can end up with a lot of lost files. Sort of the same with people, I suppose.

The thing with using electric current is, you get a lot more control over the effect, and it's there and gone in an instant. You use insulin, and that blood sugar's not going to drop to zero for a millisecond and then be normal again.

Interestingly, flurothyl was real interesting to some TLAs, they put your tax money to work investigating GABA antagonists and that's how you get people cut out of crowds or some cases of pilot error or whatnot. A *very* fast acting, quickly metabolized, very specific GABA antagonist can be used to induce a split-second partial seizure when sprayed on or inhaled by your special friend, who becomes non-verbal, sluggishly compliant, amnesic, passive and a bit post-ictal, just perfect for walking out of a crowd right in front of people with a bit of assistance and guidance.

Which, as James Burke might have said, is how you get from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" to "Three Days of the Condor".

a reply to: tigertatzen

I am part of the medical team.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What part, because if you were of the "medical" part of the medical team, you would know things like...the fact that ECT would never be used to calm a patient like your son who has a chromosomal defect; or what Gabapentin is used for, etc.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I agree I have seen it done and it can improve the lives of patients.
It still is a last resort thing but I was amazed at the difference in the chap I looked after when he had it done.

Though i have never myself received this treatment i have seen the people shortly after treatment . Pretty much the whole day of treatment is gone from their memory . The thing is , out of all the patients recieving this treatment there was only one that refused to complete the treatment , and that was after 4 of 6 shocks . Did the treatment work , geez i dont know but i can tell you this they were not as sharp after 6 shocks as they were when they came in , No doubt this got better with time . How do i know this . Well a 2 month patient over 3 trips to a ... i guess you could call it a low level psych clinic/ward ( you could leave at any time ) If i was to descend back into those dark days would i have ECT , probably My jury is out though . This drug that drug , keep trying until something works . Luckily in my case they found one so i did not have to make the ECT choice .

a reply to: Atsbhct

I set up the room and assist in preparation of the patient.

a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Fear of being Shocked can indeed change a person. Even when sedated the patient still knows what is happening both mentally and physically.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Fear of being Shocked can indeed change a person. Even when sedated the patient still knows what is happening both mentally and physically.

The people i seen were aware of everything before the shocks but thats about it .

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I think you're doing yourself and maybe others a great disservice by allowing the sight of someone being shocked during ECT treatment lead you into making an unresearched OP with no real medical credibility. If the treatment disturbs you, sit down with an administering MD and have them answer your questions. If you think ECT treatments are being abused at the facility where you work, (and I highly doubt this is the case) then you have an obligation to report it, unless you'd like to be added to a malpractice suit someday.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Sorry but the guy who had it done choose to do so he suffered from bi polar (worse case I ever saw) and he solved his uncontrollable mania.

a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

I am bi polar and to be honest the mania part was great . Sadly even when going through this stage you knew what was coming later .

ECT probably works when the condition is properly diagnosed. In my daughters case in not so sure.

Brief bullet point sytle timeline

1. Daughter and partner going through rough patch.
2. I look at her facebook and see another guy "liking" lots of her content.
3. Big row, she grabs partners pain meds and downs them in front of him.
4. EMT's ER psych eval etc.
5. She is admitted to psych unit.
6. Loads of meds, therapy, group etc.
7. She doesnt respond.
8. They offer ECT, she accepts.
9. Me not happy.
10. 8 sessions and then she is done.
11. they discharge her to outpatients.
12. I ask her if she feels better, "so so..."
13. few days later she gets readmitted "cos she feels unsafe".
14. prior day i read her facebook posts about her missing the friends she made in unit.

Ok to me it sounds like her n hubby are over and she's using this as an escape/excuse "ive changed since the ECT".
bear in mind she is from the UK and the only people she knows are hubbys family/friends and a few work coleagues [she refused the offer of a free flight home].

Sorry but a descent psychologist would have seen through this and i cant help beliving that health insurance cash was the driving factor in the treatment program along with my daughters stuborness.

a reply to: kountzero

14. prior day i read her facebook posts about her missing the friends she made in unit.

Dont get on her case for that . The people she met in the unit are probably the only ones that truly know what she is going through . That includes the psychiatrist/physiologist and yourself . Mental illness is a very lonely road . Dont play the amateur psychiatrist . Supporting her is the only way to go .

a reply to: hutch622

Na, i didnt get on her case at all through the whole experience. All she heard from me was how much i love her and miss her, just do what you got to do. But given the evidence [ which i only briefly touched on for examples] and knowing her personality i get the destinct impression she wasnt very truthful in her group and 1 on 1 sessions. I could probably fill several forum pages of posts with all the odd exchanges that went on. Suffice to say she didnt get what she really needed and they just juiced her to tick another box on the invoice.

a reply to: Bedlam

I use GABA inducing food chemistry to try to moderate my TLE. Some foods actually stimulate GABA production. Potatoes actually have some of that ability along with scopalamine and Benzo chemistry in them that make a person calmer. Unlike some of the nightshade family, they also have the ability to stimulate the nicotine receptors and muscaric receptors. So they both have a calming chemistry along with a boosting of intelect if you have coffee with them and a source of choline.

So, just eat eggs with spuds and coffee for breakfast and you are treated for a bunch of mental issues. Cereals on the other hand are bad for creating a scattered thinking. The type of synthetic B vitamins they are enriched with and some of the preharvest herbicide residues can scatter the mind.

Boosting your ability to reason will not make you fit into a society where the majority of people have compromised thinking though, it will not make you normal. To do that it is necessary to give acetylcholine blocking chemistry so people will believe that the evidence that they recieve by people who profit by creating it is real. It is also necessary to make us believe that we actually have a choice in who we vote for for the president. We will be able to choose from three people who were allowed to run by the ones in charge. Maybe I should take a Benedryl so I will not be talking like this and be happy I have a choice between the two best deceivers in the country.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Sheer ignorance. I work in a psych hospital and many patients who need it get ECT and it's a miracle treatment for them. You should seriously do some research before making these posts.

a reply to: Atsbhct

By our States law there has to be five medical personnel present during any ECT procedure.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Fear of being Shocked can indeed change a person. Even when sedated the patient still knows what is happening both mentally and physically.

Funny, they actually almost never have any recollection of what happens mentally or physically during the treatment.

You really need to educate yourself on the subject.

I would say 80-90% of the patients I have who undergo ECT benefit greatly from it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You should obviously request to excuse yourself from these duties.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I would loose my job.