Terence Crutcher Video of Shooting and Arrest Record

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

No, if you are on PCP, a taser won't work on you. We've seen it plenty of times in other cases, but we won't really know until the coroner's reports come back.

It didn't look like they waited long enough to see if it worked. One tasered him, the other one murdered him.

Death is stronger than PCP. And he displayed no behavior that justified killing him.

I am not saying this guy was a good guy or not. I am not saying he was not on drugs. I don't know and it doesn't matter.

At the time she shot and killed him, he was not a threat to himself, them, or anyone else. You don't kill people for what they "might" do.

If you think that the police should be able to shoot and kill someone just because they don't follow their orders or because a nonthreatening person "might" be on drugs and "might" attack them, than you are letting a genie out of the bottle that will destroy us all.

Let me give you a example of a insane killer who was also On PCP. remember the HAlloween movies? It was based on a true person. I seem to remember a story about his capture. Police had cornered this guy and he was already insane to begin with. he decided to do all of his PCP and go out fighting. he severly injured over 15 cops three had bites to their necks and one had to be taken to surgery for a throat that was biten open.

the cops pulled back and just decided to mow his arse down. this was when they were still using revolvers btw. the dude was shot over 50 times and still kept coming. His body was just running on adrenaline at this point because his legs had been shredded as well as his torso and arms. His body finally stopped moving after a bit though.

Anyway A person on PCP is NO JOKE. Better to call in a drone strike than risk a toe to toe with that. As to th eabove its something i heard but i cannot confirm for sure.

a reply to: yuppa

Yuppa I dealt with patients on PCP, patients on drugs that we had no clue of what that were at the time, much like Flakka, and patients with psychotic breaks that were stronger and more out of control than a patient on drugs. At no time was shooting and killing them, the only solution to stopping these patients from hurting themselves or others. We were trained and skilled in dealing with mentally impaired and dangerous patients. It is done everyday, without harm to patient or staff.

We have to deal with these patient up close with no guns, no tasers. If it can be done with a few men and mostly women, in close quarters, a lot of men and a few women, with tactical gear, with tasers, and more space, can subdue a person that is on PCP. Flakka can be a little trickier but it can be done without killing the suspect, and is done on a regular basis. The problem here is, police officers that decide to shoot to kill, have decided that that "will" be the solution.

I work with a few police officers that think they are demi-gods. They want things done the way they want things done, they have little or no patience. They walk around with an oversized chip on their shoulder, daring you to even look at it.

I will give you two examples. We have a special unit for responding to victims of sexual assault and domestic violence. If the victim does not require immediate medical care they are supposed to be taken to a space that was specifically designed for processing this kind of crime. Problem is, this means the police officers have to drive the victim to the facility. Because it may be a greater distance to travel to the facility, instead of the nearest hospital ER, guess where the demi-god officers takes the victim.

They don't care what is best for the victim. They don't want to drive any further than pleases them, so everyone else has to suffer. The emergency rooms don't want these patients because it takes a huge amount of time to process these cases. The ER is not equipped to process these cases, and their space is limited, so patients that really need that space have to have longer ER wait times than is necessary.

Another example. A couple of days ago, I was burdened down with a bunch of items I needed with me. I had a huge bag on my shoulder, and both my hands were full. An officer was standing at the check-in desk, talking to an officer seated behind the desk. I walked up to the desk to identify myself, my ID was around my neck so turned to the left, to allow the officer at the desk to see my ID. We were chatting amicably, no problems right? Wrong, the officer standing, suddenly jumped back and grabbed his gun. I looked at him and asked him what was wrong. I was genuinely startled. He responded, "You bumped my gun." I said, "Really?" He said, "Yes." "You bumped my gun, you see my hand?" He was standing there with his hand on his gun. I told him, "Yes." "I see your hand on your gun, so what do you plan to do, shoot me?" He repeated again, "You bumped my gun". So I told him, "So shoot me."

I am serious. I was weighed down with so much stuff, and both hands so full, I couldn't even hand the officer at the desk my badge, and he wanted to put on this big scene about me bumping his gun, which I truly doubt even happened, and wouldn't have happened if he wasn't covering up the desk, and had just moved a few inches away to allow me to get a pass to continue about my business. Demi-god police officers don't budge for anyone.

I know they always use, the guy could have been on drugs so go ahead shoot and kill him excuse, and it is plain BS. PCP has been around since I was a teen, and that is a bit of a while ago. They didn't kill suspects before, when there were less officers, less equipment, no tasers, no tactical gear, and almost no backup. This is a bunch of contrived BS to make excuses for poorly trained, chicken # officers, that have a god complex.

Making excuses and condoning these actions by the police will destroy the America we so revere. We are well on our way to the dystopia that Hollywood is constantly throwing in our faces. Allowing and supporting this behavior by the police is only kicking the can further up the road.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Of course, I doubt your patients have the option of a firearm.

Being reported on bbc twitter the cop has been charged with manslaughter.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Of course, I doubt your patients have the option of a firearm.

This man had no firearm. Many others had no firearm.

If a police officer is "threatened" by a suspect with a firearm, we would be having a different discussion.

I think the best thing we can do is to give police officers better training and remove police officers that feel afraid and think it is okay to kill suspects because they "might do something".

I will not be surprised when the the police are removed from the streets completely. After all they are proving that they are not up to the job, so the government will put adequately trained gestapo teams on the street in their place. This is the only thing these incidents are pushing us toward.

The Gestapo operated without civil restraints. It had the authority of “preventative arrest,” and its actions were not subject to judicial appeal.

We are fueling this train by not stopping this problem.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

Kinda torn on this one other than to say....don't be a criminal.....you have a 100% better chance of avoiding police altercations that way.

Don't you mean to say "don't be black..." Had Mr. Crutcher been a white male, he would likely be alive right now.

Ummm...no. The cops got there and from his plates, knew he had warrants and multiple priors, some for resisting arrest. He was yelling to other motorists his car was going to blow up and didn't comply with police orders.

I would expect the same for a white guy with the same record. As I have pointed out multiple times, police in the last year have killed twice as many whites compared to blacks....

Oh...and the PCP may be a tiny factor in it....but yeah...he was a sweet kid going to college to make his life better...just had to take/sell a little more PCP to get there....

Actually you are correct...but whites make up more of the traffic stops, and more of the population at large. So your point is very skewed, purely from a statistical side.

And so you're saying that a man should change his past if he doesn't want to be gunned down by police after his vehicle breaks down?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Of course, I doubt your patients have the option of a firearm.

This man had no firearm. Many others had no firearm.

If a police officer is "threatened" by a suspect with a firearm, we would be having a different discussion.

I think the best thing we can do is to give police officers better training and remove police officers that feel afraid and think it is okay to kill suspects because they "might do something".

I will not be surprised when the the police are removed from the streets completely. After all they are proving that they are not up to the job, so the government will put adequately trained gestapo teams on the street in their place. This is the only thing these incidents are pushing us toward.

The Gestapo operated without civil restraints. It had the authority of “preventative arrest,” and its actions were not subject to judicial appeal.

We are fueling this train by not stopping this problem.

The thing is the police officer DOES NOT KNOW if a person has a firearm / weapon or not. Dealing with someone drugged up in a closed environment is a lot different than a random person on the street. In your example, you know they aren't armed and they aren't in a position to arm themselves. So yes, it is no big deal to tussle with the drug addict.

However, on the street, the cop does not know if someone is armed or not. In addition, the cop themselves are armed and if they lose control of the situation, the perp could arm themselves with the cop's weapon.

Look at this video of a Deputy losing his life because he didn't shoot until it was too late. Simple traffic stop. Eerily similar to the crutcher case. The perp is acting crazy. Even "raises his hands" Cop lets him go back to his car and the perp them pulls a weapon out of vehicle and cop loses his life.

Cops are put in a position where they have to assess signs being given off by perps and play the odds. They have to make a split second decision. If they are too jumpy they can kill an innocent person. If they hesitate too much, they can lose their life. We can debate till the cows come home which cases are which.

However, the one common denominator in pretty much all these cases is non-compliance which is what escalates a situation that could result in a loss of life in a small number of instances.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

No, a man should comply with the cops. He was told to put his hands up and stop moving. He did one, but not the other. Every time you do not comply with the cops, you are making the situation less safe for everyone. It doesn't matter what your skin color or gender is.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The incident i heard about was back when Tasers were not in use by police and they were using revolvers and shotguns still.

They coudnt take the guy by using less than lethal force on him.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The thing is the police officer DOES NOT KNOW if a person has a firearm / weapon or not. Dealing with someone drugged up in a closed environment is a lot different than a random person on the street. In your example, you know they aren't armed and they aren't in a position to arm themselves. So yes, it is no big deal to tussle with the drug addict.

However, on the street, the cop does not know if someone is armed or not. In addition, the cop themselves are armed and if they lose control of the situation, the perp could arm themselves with the cop's weapon.

Look at this video of a Deputy losing his life because he didn't shoot until it was too late. Simple traffic stop. Eerily similar to the crutcher case. The perp is acting crazy. Even "raises his hands" Cop lets him go back to his car and the perp them pulls a weapon out of vehicle and cop loses his life.

Cops are put in a position where they have to assess signs being given off by perps and play the odds. They have to make a split second decision. If they are too jumpy they can kill an innocent person. If they hesitate too much, they can lose their life. We can debate till the cows come home which cases are which.

However, the one common denominator in pretty much all these cases is non-compliance which is what escalates a situation that could result in a loss of life in a small number of instances.

Walking down the street comes with the possibilities. It sounds like you are saying that anytime the police stops anyone, even if they are complying, if they feel suspicious, or they think the suspect "might" be a threat, they are justified to shoot and kill.

I give up. I have nothing more to add to this thread. I just hope I don't live long enough to see the results of the world most of you are rooting for. I have never been sorry about growing old, and I do not wish to leave this world before it is my due time, but this world has erased all fear of death from my psyche.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

No, I doubt he would have been shot for meandering down the street with his hands in the air although he would eventually have been taken down forcibly. Where would he have put his gun? In the grass? But by going back to his car, he escalated the situation. You can readily conceal any number of things in a vehicle as the video demonstrates.

And what part of not complying do you not get? Had he been complying, he would not have been walking all over the place.

Again, you are talking about patients in a controlled setting.

Cops do not have that luxury.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

No, a man should comply with the cops. He was told to put his hands up and stop moving. He did one, but not the other. Every time you do not comply with the cops, you are making the situation less safe for everyone. It doesn't matter what your skin color or gender is.

I was responding to another post in which the poster said something to the effect of "if he doesn't want to get shot he shouldn't be a convicted felon...."

In the Crutcher case, judgement by the DA is that there is enough evidence to charge the Police Officer. And it is ONLY the Crutcher case to which I am referring. Let a jury decide the culpability of the officer.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

No, a man should comply with the cops. He was told to put his hands up and stop moving. He did one, but not the other. Every time you do not comply with the cops, you are making the situation less safe for everyone. It doesn't matter what your skin color or gender is.

I was responding to another post in which the poster said something to the effect of "if he doesn't want to get shot he shouldn't be a convicted felon...."

In the Crutcher case, judgement by the DA is that there is enough evidence to charge the Police Officer. And it is ONLY the Crutcher case to which I am referring. Let a jury decide the culpability of the officer.

That one the left hand was hidden so she acted on a belief that he was hiding a weapon. You can see that on the helicopter cam footage. And when the taser dont work you dont have much choice anymore. She wont be convicted. this is just to keep the sheep in line.

originally posted by: intrepidYou can't be sued for giving first aid in this case. Whether a LEO or a civilian.

You can be sued for anything by anyone. Being successfully sued is another matter, but plenty of money is made by people waving the threat of a lawsuit. Sometimes the cost of hiring a lawyer to tell them to take a hike is more than just paying off the claimant in the first place.

A world-weary and cynical administrator might have told the officers that any duty of care is fulfilled by calling for paramedics, and that going hands-on is only going to lead to hassle and lawsuits out of the wazoo.

Although the details vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, giving "first aid" is not a form of blanket immunity if you end up making the situation worse.

"Yes, your Honour, the defendant accepts that an emergency tracheotomy is not a traditional technique for dealing with a sprained toe, but it was 'first aid' so he can't be sued..."

Why are people justifying this and also mentioning his arrest record

originally posted by: ssenerawa
Why are people justifying this and also mentioning his arrest record

because there is reasonable doubt it was intentional and or unwarranted. Dude disobeyed orders to stop then had his left hand hidden when he was shot.

originally posted by: ssenerawa
Why are people justifying this and also mentioning his arrest record

The police knew who they were dealing with when they were giving him orders....they have these things called computers in their cars that allow them to look up a persons history or records based on their car tags and such...his is VERY long and included current warrants and a lot of resisting arrest. He was exhibiting erratic behavior as shown by his actions and from the 911 call from a citizen to alert the police to a car stopped in the middle of the road with the driver running around yelling his car was going to explode....