An Urgent thread on Ethical Politics mainly for the Latino Community.

originally posted by: windword


Only as many as choose to identify as a racist, sexist, xenophobe, or any other deplorable things, and only as many who choose to willingly jump into that basket.

Cool. So only immigrants that identify as criminals and rapists should be offended by Trumps comments. Glad we cleared that up!

a reply to: Grambler

Unfortunately, Trump didn't give Mexican immigrants the option of opting out of his stereotype by choosing to identify with the 50% of hard working Americans that Hillary Clinton did.

a reply to: windword

No, he said "Some, I assume, are good people" So unless you identify as a rapists or criminal, you must be one of the good people he was talking about! There, problems solved. I mean, you don't care that Trump called out a bunch of self identified rapists, do you?

a reply to: Grambler

"Some, I assume" as an afterthought isn't not the same at all. Especially after he said that Mexico is NOT sending their best, "They're NOT sending YOU." In other words, they are not sending peer worthy people.

A reminder of what Mrs Clinton actually said, minus your "feelings".

We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."

"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

There's really no comparison.

a reply to: windword

Oh ok, so now the position of his words make the difference.

You can spin it all you want, I have heard Hillary supporters do it ever since the deplorable comment.

She was implying half of Trumps supporters are racists, sexists, etc. If you answer is, "Well if your offended, you must elf identify as a sexist, racist, etc., other wise there is no reason to be offended!" Its clever and snarky, but opens you up to a problem.

Trump implied with his statement that illegals (or all immigrants as you believe) from Mexico were mostly criminal or rapists, etc. but some of them are good people. If the argument about deplorables is true, then it works here too. "If you are offended you must self identify as a rapist or criminal, otherwise there is no reason to be offended!"

Tis is another example of trying to mince words.

Trump says Make America Great again, racist. Clinton says it, he means well. Trump wants a wall at the border, racist, Hillary wants it, just a reasonable suggestion.

Trump fans upset Hillary called supporters racist, she only said 50% so they should only be offended if they self identify as racist! Immigrants mad Trump called them rapists but said some are good, these are noble people that have the right to be offended.

I am starting to see a pattern here.

a reply to: Grambler

I'm not spinning, you are. Trump wants to deport Muslims that are here legally and ban ALL Muslims from entering. He thinks racist insults are jokes and openly mocks the disabled.

What she said is right there in black and white to read. Are you trying to say that there are no racists, sexists, xenophobes or homophobes that are Trump fans? Or, do you just have a problem with her estimation on the percentages?

What Hillary said is true, give or take a percentage point. What Trump said was patently false. Mexico isn't sending us their criminals, and any hope of redeeming his comments by his second thought addition of "Some", he supposes "are good people" is belied by whom he insists Mexico is NOT sending.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Grambler

I'm not spinning, you are. Trump wants to deport Muslims that are here legally and ban ALL Muslims from entering. He thinks racist insults are jokes and openly mocks the disabled.

What she said is right there in black and white to read. Are you trying to say that there are no racists, sexists, xenophobes or homophobes that are Trump fans? Or, do you just have a problem with her estimation on the percentages?

What Hillary said is true, give or take a percentage point. What Trump said was patently false. Mexico isn't sending us their criminals, and any hope of redeeming his comments by his second thought addition of "Some", he supposes "are good people" is belied by whom he insists Mexico is NOT sending.

So now you get to your real point. All of that self idenify crap was just smoke and mirrors to hide your true contempt for people not voting for your candidate. You do think around 50% of Trump supporters are racist, give or take a percentage point. It is ok for you to lump groups of people together and claim they are bad, but not for Trump. Why don't you practice what your preach?

But we know, you and your candidate are all about unity and bringing us together. Just not the around 50% of people that disagree with your candidate. They are irredeemable, and who cares about what they think.

Keep claiming that moral high ground!!!

a reply to: Grambler

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic

Are you saying that there are no racists, sexist, xenophobes Islamaphobes and homophobes that are Trump fans?

Are you saying that he doesn't give these people a voice?

As a Hispanic immigrant I'd like to personally thank you for telling hispanics what they should think.

We just don't hear that enough.

a reply to: projectvxn

Dear Projectvxn,

I feel glad to see you got perfectly the message of this thread, that no body that feels Latino or Hispanic can gain anything by renegading of his or her own cultural identity thinking that it will help at all in to adapt to this horrendous xenophobic demagogic fascist discourse of Donald Trump and his evil political machinery that is working to kidnap this country under the rule of harassment and bigotry.

There is no way to adapt or negotiate with fascism, History has showed that it was precisely the passivity of the opposition what opened the path to power that was walked by Hitler and Mussolini, the Heroes that Donald Trump admires so much. Underestimate the Tyrannic power that comes from manipulating ideals of supremacism, racism or ultra nationalism is a grave mistake.

Please check:

www.nytimes.com...

The arrival of a second stage of Facism in the world with the Donald Trump phenomenon is being analyzed by political scientists as a very serious problem.

Please check:
www.thomhartmann.com...

Let me go back to the case of Cuban Americans, for instance, that have fallen recently into a huge moral crisis, they are now messed with a false sense of identification, infiltrated by politicians that are teaching them to hate their own cultural background, to make them believe to be what they are Not.

How is that people that got independence from Spain just in 1898 may think they are no longer Hispanic?,
when all the other Latin American countries were linked with Spain less time that them?

Colombia became independent in 1819, Mexico in 1821 and Argentina in 1816, so if they are Hispanic then Cubans, Portoricans and Dominicans are even more logically since they were part of the Spanish Empire longer than anybody else in this continent.

www.theatlantic.com...

The crisis of identity of the Latin community is definitively giving justification to the Xenophobic people that follow the evil mentality of Trump against the Hispanic people.

This has been already detected by the media analysts, the identity crisis is not a myth but a huge real social problem that the ethnic harassment of the Trumpism is causing all along the country.

Please check:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Please stop pretending to speak for Hispanic people.

a reply to: olaru12

Right, after being marginalized as "people lie you" Hilldogs, spot monkeys, commies, bleeding hearts, pinkos, moonbats,
Hippie trash, thugs, libtards, American Taliban, snake mittens, douche canoes, knob jockeys and ass cactus etc.

But now we're all Americans...

I forgot ....fawning dewberries, flap dragons, and fen sucked!!

and the ever popular frothy giglet....

Now I remember why I love this place

:-)

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Grambler


So, it's about feelings? Donald Trump didn't qualify his statement with "illegal" Mexicans. He said
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

You so conveniently left out one part at the end of that quote...
"And some, I assume, are good people."



This is why arguing with you mindless protesters is just a huge waste of time, you guys never fight fair with facts.

STILL, AMERICAN LATINOS FOR TRUMP!!

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: The angel of light

Please stop pretending to speak for Hispanic people.

I'm an American born latino from California and i will NEVER agree with Mexican flag wavers and anyone looking to f*ck the system by any means. This has directly affected my life and i have illegal family members who have been here my entire life, ducking the system and looking for handouts...its NOT RIGHT.

a reply to: projectvxn

Sorry, but I am Not going to do what you want, first because you don't own the thread, this is a free space of discussion of ideas, provided that one respect the rules of decorum in the communication, second because I don't feel you have even moral authority to be the voice of any Hispanic or Latino Community.

There is nothing you have said that convince me of the contrary.

I have here since 2007 and this is not definitively the first neither the last thread in which I talk about Hispanic or Latin topics. A decade ago when Donald Trump was not even in the map of Politics of this country I was already posting threads for readers interested on Latin American issues.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Dude I am an immigrant. Been a citizen for about 5 years. I'm Hispanic. First language is Spanish.

I read your entire OP. I found it condescending, I find you to have very little grasp of what actually matters to American voters, and I find it a bit peculiar that you assume Hispanic people to be monolithic and of a sort of hive mind.

Anyone who doesn't fit your opinion of what a Hispanic should believe has "no moral authority ".

Bro. That's called racism.

a reply to: Zeta Reticuli

You so conveniently left out one part at the end of that quote... "And some, I assume, are good people."

What does it matter if "some of them", he supposes, are good, when he prefaced that second thought with this: " they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. ."?

You conveniently choose to ignore the part where Trump makes us understand who they (Mexico) is NOT sending..... that none of those Mexican immigrants are qualified to serve as your peers, according to his own words. They are NOT your equals, according to Trump.

a reply to: windword

Everything that was said was based on the topic at hand, which was immigration. But you guys looooove to forget that part.

Serious question, why did you decided to leave that last part out?

a reply to: Zeta Reticuli
He left it out because it doesn't fit with the excuse he was trying to give HIllary.

He can't bring himself to say that people could be outraged that Hillary called them deplorable, so he tries to employ a crafty tactic in saying, She didn't say all are deplorable. So if you are offended, you are labeling yourself a racists, sexist, etc."

However, the same argument could be made to the illegals that Trump was criticizing, because he didn't say all either, he said some were good people. So now he tries to leave that part out, or claim that it was an after thought, or otherwise try to diminish it.

Thats ok though, people (such as you) see right through these shenanigans.