China's Scientists Propose the Human 'Quantum Brain'

a reply to: Kashai
OK so psychic powers haven't been proven.

dbem.ws...

The link on the site was broken but I was able to find the study.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Unfortunately, even if quantum-based theories eventually mature from metaphor to genuine models of psi, they are still unlikely to provide intuitively satisfying mechanisms for psi because quantum theory fails to provide intuitively satisfying mechanisms for physical reality itself.

From your link..

How Is it possible for quantum mechanics not having anything to do with physical reality given the evidence provided by the OP??

a reply to: neoholographic

Good thread. Reminded me of the other day when I wanted to know what all those colors are when you rub your eyes or the visual effects sometimes when just staring with your eyes closed. Sometimes they look like blobs of smoke rings or patterns repeating. Turns out they're photons called phosphenes generated within the eye.
scienceline.org...

a reply to: Kashai
Some things we can't understand intuitively, I have no problem with that.
I put that link there because your link stating that psychic powers may have been proved was incorrect based on the study it was referring to.

Regarding your question I never implied that was the case.
I believe that quantum mechanics have everything to do with physical reality.

a reply to: kibric

so a quantum mind is to woo
but quantum computing isn't ?

Yes indeed.

maybe you could post your qualifications ?

Not stupid.
Not dissatisfied with my life.
Took a university degree in physics.

a reply to: Astyanax

Took a university degree in physics.

well at least we know you are
qualified to make snarky comments directed at the O.P
if nothing else

originally posted by: antigua
a reply to: neoholographic

Hubris.

The body is hardware. The consciousness is software.

I agree. And the software is even subjective not objective but can become self reasoning/questioning to lessen subjective view towards a more objective view point.

Even if we get perfect information exchange on quantum level the information still have to be translated thru unconscious to conscious (thought level where we use words that can be ambiguous to create meaning).

The more words you create that mean separate things the more precise a being can be lessening the information degradation problem between 2 people. That problem exist even in normal written/spoken language.

Nice thread. .

Seems the Chinese are leaving dogma behind and going where the data/experiments lead them.

The also sent up a satellite to test/research entangled crypto keys. Maybe this will bring a shift in the rest of the world and create scientist that are comfortable with entanglement instead of confused by it.

a reply to: neoholographic

The reason why there's such resistence to quantum mechanics having anything to do with the brain or consciousness, is because it blows a materialist/atheist worldview out of the water

This is ridiculous. The quantum world is as much a part of nature as the classical world. There's nothing supernatural about it.

As far as materialism is concerned, the quantum world has already contributed to our "materialistic" world:

Superconductivity is a phenomenon of exactly zero electrical resistance and expulsion of magnetic flux fields occurring in certain materials when cooled below a characteristic critical temperature. It was discovered by Dutch physicist Heike Kamerlingh Onnes on April 8, 1911 in Leiden. Like ferromagnetism and atomic spectral lines, superconductivity is a quantum mechanical phenomenon. It is characterized by the Meissner effect, the complete ejection of magnetic field lines from the interior of the superconductor as it transitions into the superconducting state. The occurrence of the Meissner effect indicates that superconductivity cannot be understood simply as the idealization of perfect conductivity in classical physics.

Just because consciousness is not completely understood doesn't make it a phenomenon existing outside of science. It's just a matter of time.

Chinese scientists have proposed a new theory that explains why humans are so much more intelligent than animals even though our brains are often much smaller than those of other species.

According to the South China Morning Post, in their latest study, Dai and his colleagues sliced tissue samples from the brains of a bullfrog, mouse, chicken, pig, monkey and human. The neurons, still alive in the culture dish, were then stimulated with glutamate and the photons recorded with specially-built sensors. They observed the spectral redshift, or the change of light waves from higher to lower energy levels. Human brain tissue showed the lowest energy photons, followed by the monkey, pig, chicken and mouse, with the frog at the highest level.

So they start off with proposing a new theory about how humans are so much more intelligent than even animals with larger brains than humans, but then test their theory on animal brain tissue of which all the animals have smaller brains than humans.

I'd call that theory non-validated ;-p

originally posted by: DaRAGE

Chinese scientists have proposed a new theory that explains why humans are so much more intelligent than animals even though our brains are often much smaller than those of other species.

According to the South China Morning Post, in their latest study, Dai and his colleagues sliced tissue samples from the brains of a bullfrog, mouse, chicken, pig, monkey and human. The neurons, still alive in the culture dish, were then stimulated with glutamate and the photons recorded with specially-built sensors. They observed the spectral redshift, or the change of light waves from higher to lower energy levels. Human brain tissue showed the lowest energy photons, followed by the monkey, pig, chicken and mouse, with the frog at the highest level.

So they start off with proposing a new theory about how humans are so much more intelligent than even animals with larger brains than humans, but then test their theory on animal brain tissue of which all the animals have smaller brains than humans.

I'd call that theory non-validated ;-p

This is such a dishonest post. This is why you only posted half of the first paragraph. Let me post in in full.

Chinese scientists have proposed a new theory that explains why humans are so much more intelligent than animals even though our brains are often much smaller than those of other species. Researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Neuroscience and Neuro-engineering have previously carried out studies backing the theory that the brain not only processes and passes on information not only through electrical and chemical signals, but also with photons of light.

The new theory isn't about the size of the brain. We have already known for years that size of the brain doesn't equate to intelligence. The new theory explains why this is the case and how the brain passes on information via photons of light and how humans can do this more efficiently using lower energy.

Stop being dishonest and cherry picking quotes from the article out of context.

Here's even more.

A new study from Dean Radin shows how human consciousness can interfere with the wave function. He's at an event with Dr. Hameroff (Quantum Mind).



WOW!

A very impressive Published study that's being replicated. This is truly a groundbreaking study but it confirms what Psi experiments have shown for years. Focus and intention by consciousness can cause a random system to behave in a non random way. We saw this with random number generators and PEAR.

In this study, the double slit experiment was set up using photons. Quantum Theory predicts the random distribution pattern that will occur when the photons hit the screen. You can plot this out in a graph. Dean Radin's prediction was that human focus and intention could alter this outcome.

So he set up an experiment where a person meditating focused on altering the wave function. The results were astounding. After the experiment, the wave function was altered up to 5 SIGMA! Radin then said, maybe this result is a product of distance. So they ran thousands of trials over the internet with people in different Countries and they got the same result.

This is just a WOW moment but it confirms what Psi Researchers have shown for years.

If Quantum Mechanics was purely a physical theory, then a person can focus and concentrate until they're blue in the face and they will not interfere with the random distribution predicted by Quantum Theory. If Radin would have done this experiment and there was no difference between when a human focused their intention and when it was not being observed then that would have bolstered the view that Quantum Mechanics is just a physical theory. Clearly it's not and experiment after experiment shows the choice and the intention of the conscious oobserver can alter and interfere with a random system down to Planck scales.

WATCH THE VIDEO!

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar


A very real issue in all of this is with respect to Chaos Theory.

Where consistently we have observed that what appears random in fact is not.

For me anyway it's not a matter of intuition but rather one of probability.

Gravity Theory and due to the fact that we have not fully explored the Universe has not been proven either as there could be significant differences inherent to nature we have not yet observed.

It is not a matter of intuition.

Its a matter of relating to modern science in an altogether way inclusive of conclusions such as Chaos theory. When it comes to the skeptical response in general upon the internet that obvious point is often ignored.

Despite its significance in relation to Nature as observed.

a reply to: Kashai

What exactly is your argument here?

I asked how can our brain working on a quantum level prove psychic ability is real when the psychic's cannot do it?
You showed me a link claiming proof of psychic phenomena, the study didn't prove it.

You then asserted that I don't believe quantum mechanics effect the real world.
I told you I did not believe that.

I might be missing something but I'm not sure of the relevance of bringing chaos theory into it.

originally posted by: neoholographic
This is such a dishonest post. This is why you only posted half of the first paragraph. Let me post in in full.

Chinese scientists have proposed a new theory that explains why humans are so much more intelligent than animals even though our brains are often much smaller than those of other species. Researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Neuroscience and Neuro-engineering have previously carried out studies backing the theory that the brain not only processes and passes on information not only through electrical and chemical signals, but also with photons of light.

The new theory isn't about the size of the brain. We have already known for years that size of the brain doesn't equate to intelligence. The new theory explains why this is the case and how the brain passes on information via photons of light and how humans can do this more efficiently using lower energy.

Stop being dishonest and cherry picking quotes from the article out of context.

I wasn't being dishonest.

There is a direct size correlation there between intelligence of the species and size of brain.

They observed the spectral redshift, or the change of light waves from higher to lower energy levels. Human brain tissue showed the lowest energy photons, followed by the monkey, pig, chicken and mouse, with the frog at the highest level.

Human brain - lowest levels of red shift. Largest brain out of test subjects.
followed by:
Monkey
Pig -Pigs brains are quite small for their cranial mass, could have been smaller than the monkey... Depends on the monkey species though.
Chicken - The chicken had less red-shift than the mouse making them believe the chicken might be smarter than the mouse. Though a chicken has a bigger brain than a mouse for sure.

“Interestingly, we found that the chicken exhibits more redshift than the mouse, raising the question of whether chickens hold higher cognitive abilities than those of mice,” the researchers wrote in their paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in the United States.

Mouse
Frog - Highest levels of quick shift. Probably the smallest brain out of test subjects.

All they've shown is the smaller the brain the higher the red-shift.

I'm just saying they should test it on some animals who have larger brains than us and see how the red-shift goes.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar


Obviously the Federal Government of the United States disagrees with you on that. Countries work with Psychics all the time and as the link in question offered taxpayer dollars are spent. This not only with respect to Military or Clandestine operations but Law Enforcement as well.

Chaos theory is the study of nonlinear dynamics, in which seemingly random events are actually predictable from simple deterministic equations. In a scientific context, the word chaos has a slightly different meaning than it does in its general usage as a state of confusion, lacking any order.

whatis.techtarget.com...

What we understand as random events with respect to Quantum Mechanics could very well be non-random and it is simply beyond us at this point in time for that determination.

Also there this...

Scientific evidence for psychic powers?

A respected peer-reviewed journal in psychology, The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, is about to publish a paper that presents scientific evidence for precognition.  The paper, by Daryl Bem of Cornell University, is called “Feeling the future: Experimental evidence for anomalous retroactive influences on cognition and affect,” and you can download a preprint on his webpage.  I’ve scanned the paper only briefly, and am posting about it in hopes that some of you will read it carefully and provide analyses, either here or elsewhere.

The paper purports to show that a choice that you make in a computer test can be influenced by stimuli you receive after you’ve already made the choice.  This implies you have some way, consciously or unconsciously, of detecting things that haven’t yet happened.  In an article in Psychology Today, “Have scientists finally discovered evidence for psychic phenomena?“, psychologist Melissa Burkley at Oklahoma State University summarizes two of Bem’s studies:

whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...


PDF file....
dbem.ws...

a reply to: DaRAGE

Again, you're not understanding why this theory is related to Penrose, Hameroff and quantum consciousness. You keep talking about brain size but this theory is not about brain size. It's about the brain using photons to transmit information. I quote:

Chinese scientists have proposed a new theory that explains why humans are so much more intelligent than animals even though our brains are often much smaller than those of other species. Researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Neuroscience and Neuro-engineering have previously carried out studies backing the theory that the brain not only processes and passes on information not only through electrical and chemical signals, but also with photons of light.

This is connected to the quantum mind through microtubules which could be the mechanism behind these low energy photons. Quantum vibrations were discovered which confirmed predictions made by Penrose and Hameroff. Again, this isn't about brain size but the transmission of information via these low energy photons.

Look at the Abstract. There's no mention of brain size but he does talk about microtubules.

Abstract

The processing of neural information in neural circuits plays key roles in neural functions. Biophotons, also called ultra-weak photon emissions (UPE), may play potential roles in neural signal transmission, contributing to the understanding of the high functions of nervous system such as vision, learning and memory, cognition and consciousness. However, the experimental analysis of biophotonic activities (emissions) in neural circuits has been hampered due to technical limitations. Here by developing and optimizing an in vitro biophoton imaging method, we characterize the spatiotemporal biophotonic activities and transmission in mouse brain slices. We show that the long-lasting application of glutamate to coronal brain slices produces a gradual and significant increase of biophotonic activities and achieves the maximal effect within approximately 90 min, which then lasts for a relatively long time (>200 min). The initiation and/or maintenance of biophotonic activities by glutamate can be significantly blocked by oxygen and glucose deprivation, together with the application of a cytochrome c oxidase inhibitor (sodium azide), but only partly by an action potential inhibitor (TTX), an anesthetic (procaine), or the removal of intracellular and extracellular Ca2+. We also show that the detected biophotonic activities in the corpus callosum and thalamus in sagittal brain slices mostly originate from axons or axonal terminals of cortical projection neurons, and that the hyperphosphorylation of microtubule-associated protein tau leads to a significant decrease of biophotonic activities in these two areas. Furthermore, the application of glutamate in the hippocampal dentate gyrus results in increased biophotonic activities in its intrahippocampal projection areas. These results suggest that the glutamate-induced biophotonic activities reflect biophotonic transmission along the axons and in neural circuits, which may be a new mechanism for the processing of neural information.

journals.plos.org.../journal.pone.0085643

When you understand the Science behind the Quantum Mind then you will understand how this paper connects to quantum consciousness and it's not about brain size.

The issue of larger brain size than humans is irrelevant. As far as Extant animals we are discussing Whales and Dolphins (in general). As far a extinct forms of life we are talking about Neanderthals and Woolly Mammoths.

www.quora.com...

I just want to point out that Quantum computer can have any number of code language greater than 1s and 0s

Quantum computers use multipule variables that synchronize with each other through magnetic locking pairs, these go beyond simple electro magnetic locking, different forms of mass have different forces acting together exchanging flows of energy.

Each particle acts as a channeled link, from one pair to another. Though the greater the distance apart, the more likely hood a similar particle with giving off the same frequency will connect with it.

So though spooky action through entanglement can trigger particles to react over long distances, to increase the likely hood of it working as the distance the frequency the mass being used has to be relative to each other.

It is possible to generate a set of matter that is unique to the star system we reside in, thus, using it to entangle particles in our solar system would possibly make transmission of information from probes almost instantaneous.

The brain itself is a network of neural cells, each connecting each other with nano tubes, allowing single elections to pass through, this information being transferred through the cells is very specific command codes, it is not the same kind of energy generated from harvesting from the environment, such the kinetic energy created by movement of turbines. Electrons do collide in the brain in these neural pathways within single neurons.

Acting like micro hadron colliders, the scale at which these collisions happen is so small, it produces very specific matter which rapidly forms into very specific electro sensitive mass which our primitive technology can detect through electromagnetic sensitive equipment.

The soul, what exists as ghosts, are remnants of these particles being quantum entangled to each other because of their very specific frequencies and mass, different from dirty electrons ( Dirty electrons are electrons generated by Kinetic motion but are not carrying packets of programing.

Having all this happen in the brain, using the 4 base elements that make up a human Hydrogen carbon oxygen and nitrogen together acting together through very specific organization also is Quantum in of itself because of the variables and how matter pulls together to form proteins and amino acids.

The soul can't exist without a body to generate its consiousness through the network of Quatum entangled particles in the brain being collided and smashed to make new mass.

I believe this is why spirits are sensitive to electricty and as many people see paranormal events such as lights flickering, turning on and off TVs changing channels, messing with radios ect all fall into this disruption of natter in the electro magnetic spectrum, moving mass such as doors objects ect throwing them around are possible once electrons have been combined to form new particles acting as a unified mass instead of following along a specified current, generating an invisble 3D object by displacing force over a surface, where as dirty electrons/electricity must follow along its target path.

Which is why people scientists ect are finding it so difficult in studying the other forms of Magnetism because they are doing so using Dirty electrons which naturally follow along a current attempting to form join with a grounded partner following the path of least resistance.