Watch Evolution in Action

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why do you keep calling said bacteria a virus?

Ok then Ak
My mistake, bacteria, it was silly of me, bacteria it is.
I was wrong, oops, its bacteria, please I am sorry, silly me, said virus not bacteria, ba bong, wrong. oops, sorry

now

I am asking what information is added to the virus to prove evolution, i dont see evolution, and you refuse to back it up with any evidence

Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the BACTERIA has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

BACTERIA

a reply to: Akragon

I don't think he watched the video or read the article. Or maybe he thinks all bacteria are viruses?

Who knows. It's still funny to watch him.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Raggedyman

No no. You carry on telling people they're using faith lol.

Funny how this single experiment shows you the proof of evolution you've so desperately been crying for, yet you deny it. Not only do you deny it, you get it arse backwards.

So, carry on being the fool. I'm enjoying watching it.

So you wont/cant/ dont understand my question TD

Again
Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the virus has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Akragon

I don't think he watched the video or read the article. Or maybe he thinks all bacteria are viruses?

Who knows. It's still funny to watch him.

You know whats not funny, whats just sad

You TD and this repeated question

Again
Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the virus has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change


Its also sad you are stuck arguing about silly semantics that I accept were wrong but are irrelevant to the broader context of the issue

Take any win you can get at this point in time I guess

Again
Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the virus has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not stopping your religious crusade to try and prove evolution wrong. Have at it.

Just know that this has turned from a good thread about evolution and bacteria adapting, to a thread about you being hilarious.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I am asking what information is added to the virus to prove evolution, i dont see evolution, and you refuse to back it up with any evidence

Really...

After you just said this...

Ok then Ak
My mistake, bacteria, it was silly of me, bacteria it is.
I was wrong, oops, its bacteria, please I am sorry, silly me, said virus not bacteria, ba bong, wrong. oops, sorry

Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the BACTERIA has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

BACTERIA

ya...

Watch the video... again

www.theatlantic.com...

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not stopping your religious crusade to try and prove evolution wrong. Have at it.

Just know that this has turned from a good thread about evolution and bacteria adapting, to a thread about you being hilarious.

Here you go again, strawman and religion

Leave your faith out of it TD, lets talk science

Again
Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the virus has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change


Why is everything about religion with you

The crazy thing is you returned, you still wont answer the questions.
How do you think it makes you look

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I am asking what information is added to the virus to prove evolution, i dont see evolution, and you refuse to back it up with any evidence

Really...

After you just said this...

Ok then Ak
My mistake, bacteria, it was silly of me, bacteria it is.
I was wrong, oops, its bacteria, please I am sorry, silly me, said virus not bacteria, ba bong, wrong. oops, sorry

Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the BACTERIA has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

BACTERIA

ya...

Watch the video... again

www.theatlantic.com...

Really, how is that evolution, thats the question still?

a reply to: Raggedyman

I don't care how it makes me look. I'm just here for the entertainment and god you're entertaining!

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

I am asking what information is added to the virus to prove evolution, i dont see evolution, and you refuse to back it up with any evidence

Really...

After you just said this...

Ok then Ak
My mistake, bacteria, it was silly of me, bacteria it is.
I was wrong, oops, its bacteria, please I am sorry, silly me, said virus not bacteria, ba bong, wrong. oops, sorry

Can you prove the antibiotic wasnt effective or was and the BACTERIA has had the capacity to move forward with
A No Change
B Some Change
C Evolved enhanced change

BACTERIA

ya...

Watch the video... again

www.theatlantic.com...

Really, how is that evolution, thats the question still?

no not really...

the question has become...

HOW do you not see it...

I get it though... i remember a thread where you said you were home schooled...

Correct?

a reply to: Astyanax

Fascinating to watch and a little surprising too. I thought experiments like this would have been taking place in Uni labs for years.

It's also such an elegant demonstration of the growing problem of antibiotic resistance. I had no idea that bacteria could evolve so rapidly as to become resistant to these powerful levels of antibiotics. 11 days. Sure, these are extraordinary conditions and yet still clearly applicable to the greater 'mega plate' of humanity.

I recall reading a study whereby hospitals sought to stay ahead of the evolving bacteria by cycling varieties of antibiotics. It's a 'war' that can't be won and, hopefully, won't be lost.

Coincidentally, I'm currently on a course of Augmentin for bacterial tonsillitis. First time in over 20 years that I've been ill enough to require treatment so the docs think they'll be very effective. The processes in the video will help my imagination to picture what's occurring in my body right now. The pain is high when I wake up which might indicate at least two things. One is I should take a dose closer to bed time and the other is maybe some of the bacteria have evolved and become slightly more resistant by morning. I'll spread the doses today and see the effect in the morning.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Sadly, it looks like the battle is slowly getting lost. Just look at MRSA. A strain of Staphylococcus aureus that has evolved to be resistant against methicillin.

Evolution, be it for good or bad, sure is diverse.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Yeah but the problem is the mutation never, ever, ever mutates into something better, it ALWAYS de-evolves, no new information is EVER added into a virus mutation
Sorry to make it look like false science but it is false science

Also makes Darwinism look redundant, evolution by mutation, not natural selection as supposed
discovermagazine.com...

Its not evidence of evolution, its just phony science

Why not show empirical evidence rather than phony evidence

Why do people hate science, why do those who support evolution manipulate and abuse science in this way.

Huh?

That's not how evolution works. You think mutation has to always come up with something 'better'???
If you exchange 'better' with 'more useful to the current environment' you'll have a point.


Let me explain using moths [this is a true event]:

There were beige moths living in a forest of Birch trees. They had the same colour and blended in perfectly, so predators could not see them.

They build a road nearby.

The road started polluting the area and turned most of the trees a dirty colour. Now the light moths [you would call it a 'better colour'] were easily seen by predators and eaten by the s4itloads.

However some had mutated into a dirty, miserable, ugly grey colour [what you would call de-evolved - lol]. A colour that before would have been a disadvantage, as they would have been easily seen. This grey colour was always in the DNA, but it was useless. But guess what?

Those ugly ducklings now blended in perfectly with the newly polluted trees and predators didn't see them. The 'pretty ones' were all dead and the 'ugly' [de-evolved by your opinion] were finding mates and had grey offspring. After a while the whole forest was full of dark moths. Thriving.

No hand of god, no de-evolution, no newly added genetic material.

Only a mutation that fared better than the others in a changing environment. Guess what would happen if the trees went back to light?
Nope, not a god deciding to make 'pretty' moths again, just mutations 'trying it on' until one of them fits the bill.

And that is how evolution works.

It's not phoney. It is the most logical and beautiful and efficient FACT that explains diversity in nature.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Just look at MRSA. A strain of Staphylococcus aureus that has evolved to be resistant against methicillin.

Its actually something we all have in our bodies in very small amounts

the problem happens when the immune system is unstable

our immune system can fight MRSA and VRE off... but our meds can't as of yet

Makes ya think eh

a reply to: Akragon

Yeah, it sure does.

My mum (before she passed) had a bad case of necrotising faciitis. She lost 20 pounds in dead flesh. I only found out recently that it's caused be MRSA bacterium.

(Viewer advisory: DON'T GOOGLE IT)

a reply to: TerryDon79

Yeah it's a problem and not just a 'First World' one. I think we got carried away thinking they were a panacea and lost momentum against the resistance of bacteria. People weren't completing courses or they were (are still) self-treating with half-packets left in the medicine drawers.

If we had a do-over, it'd be different. At the same time, we have to acknowledge and applaud our little bacterial co-habitees because they've been around longer than us and we wouldn't be here today (perhaps) without the resilience we've evolved through permanent attrition with them.

The next *new* treatment will hopefully take into account where we went wrong with anti-biotics. Or we'll make the same mistakes we always do

ETA - First new antibiotic in 30 years discovered in major breakthrough

Scientists have always believed that the soil was teeming with new and potent antibiotics because bacteria have developed novel ways to fight off other microbes.

But 99 per cent of microbes will not grow in laboratory conditionsleaving researchers frustrated that they could not get to the life-saving natural drugs.

Now a team from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts, have discovered a way of using an electronic chip to grow the microbes in the soil and then isolate their antibiotic chemical compounds.

They discovered that one compound, Teixobactin, is highly effective against common bacterial infections Clostridium difficile, Mycobacterium tuberculous and Staphylococcus aureus.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I'm kind of for AND against antibiotics. While they're a good thing (think of all the things that aren't around or aren't as wide spread as they used to be), I personally think we don't let our bodies do enough to build up a natural defence to some of the least harmful ones.

Just look at how many cold and flu meds there are. Me? Hot orange squash and bed lol. Well, unless it gets really bad, then it's doctors.

ETA: Just saw your edit. I'm going to have to do some searching on that. Looks interesting at a quick glance though.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I'm kind of for AND against antibiotics. While they're a good thing (think of all the things that aren't around or aren't as wide spread as they used to be), I personally think we don't let our bodies do enough to build up a natural defence to some of the least harmful ones.

Certainly. Like I said, a do-over would see completely different approaches. I recall reports about over-prescribing them and that must have ramped up the overall resistance across widely dispersed populations.

Incidentally, the US is about start a public awareness campaign against the overuse of anti-bacterial cleaners. People go too far.

I had a convo with GoS about these things. Some of us rarely get ill and it's partially because we don't mind a bit of dirt. We don't spray everything or use Purell after opening a door.

Hi Astyanax: nice find!

Hi Kandinsky,

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Astyanax
I recall reading a study whereby hospitals sought to stay ahead of the evolving bacteria by cycling varieties of antibiotics. It's a 'war' that can't be won and, hopefully, won't be lost.

Well, it could work. But it would require for 1 class of antibiotics not to be used for longer periods of time (5 years) anywhere in the world, nor for human as veterinary use. That way you give the bacterial populations the time to loose the plasmid that codes for that specific antibiotic resistance.

Coincidentally, I'm currently on a course of Augmentin for bacterial tonsillitis. ... One is I should take a dose closer to bed time and the other is maybe some of the bacteria have evolved and become slightly more resistant by morning. I'll spread the doses today and see the effect in the morning.

I would follow the doctor's instructions. Normally they are designed to get and maintain a high concentration of antibiotics in your system and kill the bacteria before they can become resistant. Just as in the video, they become resistant when they are first exposed to lower doses. If you get and maintain a high dose from the beginning, they don't become resistant.
Just in case: whatever you do, please don't split the doses (e.g. if you have to take 500mg, don't split it in 2 doses of 250mg) and, I'm sure you know, but also just in case: finish the whole treatment, even if the pain recedes.

BTW: I'm a huge fan of your posts!

Cheers!

a reply to: Hecate666

We can call that adaptation, that's nice, that's accurate, that's science
That's not evolution

Thanks anyway