Shanksville pics..?

For those of you who say that the fire didn't get hot enough to weaken the steel, I have news for you. The Liberty bridge in Pittsburgh had a fire last week. The fire was hot enough to have damaged the bridge structure. There are reports that if the fire hadn't been put out as fast as it was the bridge may have collapsed.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
Do you have any idea why we wouldn't have seen the same wing impressions in the Pentagon building?

There is evidence of the wings hitting the Pentagon, why do you think there is not?

Major 2 star General Albert Stubblebine says the hole was too small as compared to the size of the plane that hit it.

he left the military 17 years before 9/11, how would he know?

a reply to: WeRpeons

Probably because one hit an abandoned mine where the soil is softer and the other one hit a fortfied concrete structure.

Trying to compare the two and say they should be the same is just silly.

a reply to: WeRpeons

Major 2 star General Albert Stubblebine says the hole was too small as compared

He is the last person you should quote for facts.
Look up what he did in the military.
Then picture him attempting to walk through a wall using the power of his mind splitting atoms.

Some people leave the military with a better head on their shoulders.
Some people leave the military with a chip on their shoulders.
He left the military with a lump on his shoulders.

a reply to: JIMC5499

For those of you who say that the fire didn't get hot enough to weaken the steel, I have news for you. The Liberty bridge in Pittsburgh had a fire last week. The fire was hot enough to have damaged the bridge structure. There are reports that if the fire hadn't been put out as fast as it was the bridge may have collapsed.

Been numerous cases of bridges being heavily damaged by fires

I 78 Newark NJ - trash accumulated under elevated section of highway (including tires) caught fire . Heat warped the
steel supports. Took 2 years to fix

I 95 - Shelton CT - Truck carrying fuel oil flipped and struck bridge supports. Resulting fire distorted the supports

I 580 Oakland CA - Tanker truck loaded with gasoline rolled on steep curve . Fire destroyed overpass

a reply to: JIMC5499

They are saying Monday, Sept 12' the Bridge will reopen. And my question is, what year? Too much damage for a fix that quick.

Liberty Bridge:

it was due to errant sparks from a welder’s torch that ignited plastic piping, which then lit afire a tarp draping the bridge during

Just plastic and a canvas tarp ?

It took firefighters a half-hour or less to extinguish the blaze, but it already had severely damaged a 30-foot-long steel beam

It buckled and moved over” in an S shape instead of straight, he said.

Sounds a lot like WTC doesn't it.

originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: FlyingFox
I know it must seem like a silly question to veterans here, but is this really a ground-level pic from Shanksville?

It seems absurdly small and neat. No craters from the engines? It looks like the set from a B-grade summer movie...

Are there more pics that people are familiar with? If so, please post them. I don't want to choke my browser with odd searches.

wow. have never seen this picture before.

this is entirely inconsistent with a plane crash.

Hi.. I've spent a couple of decades working for Greater Pittsburgh International Airport. I'm the AARF guy.
I have been on this crash and USAir427... can you tell me whats inconsistent about this?

To the OP... Are you a qualified and experienced investigator of air crashes?

I once came across a website of plane crash sites from WW2. It's quite amazing the lack of remains a Avro Lancaster can make when dropping nose-first from 20,000 feet. I wish I could find it, but there are similarities with the OP. A hole in the ground and sime litter around. Nothing else left above the surface.

The landing gear trolley assemblies and wheels are conspicuously missing.

originally posted by: FlyingFox
The landing gear trolley assemblies and wheels are conspicuously missing.

Firefighters reported seeing part of the undercarriage and tires. One of the tires was on fire and had to be extinguished.

Excerpts from "Courage After the Crash: Flight 93" by Glenn J. Kashurba. SAJ Publishing, 2002. King: "We stopped and I opened the door. The smell of jet fuel was overpowering. I will never forget that smell; it is really burnt into my mind. ...I walked down the power line and got my first glimpse of human remains. Then I walked a little further and saw more." Shanksville VFD firefighter Keith Curtis: "I walked up to where the tire was on fire, probably a hundred feet past the crater. It was a big tire. I was thinking that this is a big jet. I hit it good with the hose and put it out. I stopped and 'poof,' it just started on fire again." Firefighter Mike Sube: "We made our way to a small pond. That's where I observed the largest piece of wreckage that I saw, a portion of the landing gear and fuselage. One of the tires was still intact with the bracket, and probably about three to five windows of the fuselage were actually in one piece lying there. ...There were enough fires that our brush truck was down there numerous times. ...I saw small pieces of human remains and occasionally some larger pieces. That was disturbing, but what was most disturbing was seeing personal effects."

Link Democratic Underground post

yea, I'm a seasoned pilot....wingspan should lay a print 200 feet wide.....whatcha thinkin?

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: facedye

originally posted by: FlyingFox
I know it must seem like a silly question to veterans here, but is this really a ground-level pic from Shanksville?

It seems absurdly small and neat. No craters from the engines? It looks like the set from a B-grade summer movie...

Are there more pics that people are familiar with? If so, please post them. I don't want to choke my browser with odd searches.

I'm a pilot....a seasoned pilot....looks like not enough debris to fill a suitcase.....190 foot wingspan ?.....have a close look for real.....we need to see 200 feet of wingspan, my friends....

wow. have never seen this picture before.

this is entirely inconsistent with a plane crash.

Hi.. I've spent a couple of decades working for Greater Pittsburgh International Airport. I'm the AARF guy.
I have been on this crash and USAir427... can you tell me whats inconsistent about this?

Probably because one hit an abandoned mine where the soil is softer and the other one hit a fortfied concrete structure.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What's so silly about it? The wings sliced through the side of the building on the twin towers and left a noticeable slice on the exterior wall. The towers were constructed with exterior steel beams around the perimeter of the building. If a plane and it's wings can slice through steel beams, I'm sure at the very least it would have created some damage along a concrete wall. Take into consideration the engines of the plane are attached to the wings which adds to the force of the impact.

originally posted by: WeRpeons

Probably because one hit an abandoned mine where the soil is softer and the other one hit a fortfied concrete structure.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What's so silly about it? The wings sliced through the side of the building on the twin towers and left a noticeable slice on the exterior wall. The towers were constructed with exterior steel beams around the perimeter of the building. If a plane and it's wings can slice through steel beams, I'm sure at the very least it would have created some damage along a concrete wall. Take into consideration the engines of the plane are attached to the wings which adds to the force of the impact.

It's the other way around for the wings and the tower. The steel beams sliced through the wings.
Back to Shanksville, even the impression of the wing prints that the photo's showed by Phage seem plausible because the wings are thin and hollow, filled with fuel. Smacking the ground at that speed would most likely make them explode and vaporize with very little ground penetration. The fuselage however, went in perpendicular instead of horizontally flat like a wing (leading edge), with great kinetic energy. The problem will always be the engines.... how did they not contribute to holes on each side of the crater is a great mystery.

a reply to: charlyv

he problem will always be the engines.... how did they not contribute to holes on each side of the crater is a great mystery.

Well since the engines were running at cruise power one might think they chewed there way down and spit dirt out the back.
More or less covering themselves up.

a reply to: charlyv

What's this?
911review.com...

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: charlyv

he problem will always be the engines.... how did they not contribute to holes on each side of the crater is a great mystery.

Well since the engines were running at cruise power one might think they chewed there way down and spit dirt out the back.
More or less covering themselves up.

I don't think that could happen since the dirt would have to be forced through the narrow nozzle. I could see the main turbine exploding and flying apart but what was behind them was a pretty massive amount of heavy metal. One would think they would go in just like the fuselage...

In afterthought, I suppose since the engines went in before all of the fuselage, the holes could have been filled in quickly... but did they find any engine parts on each side of the big hole?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: charlyv

What's this?
911review.com...

Excellent pic, had not seen it before... next to the hole?... a pancake of turbine gearing under about 4 feet of ground...

a reply to: Phage

What's this?
911review.com...

This could be bone yard scraps, there is no evidence this piece belong to said aircraft.

a reply to: Informer1958

Nor is there evidence that anything you have said about yourself on ATS is factual. Same goes for me.

Extending that, there is no evidence that images of men walking on the Moon actually show men walking on the Moon. Right?