Putting Religion/The World Into Perspective. In One Fell Swoop.

Well, I totally understand your rant-and I do agree. I was raised quite religious-and was deeply involved with the church.

As I had finished raising my children-letting them choose what to believe-I decided to deeply study the Bible-boht in religious groups and at college-I had questions-my life experiences didn't jibe with all the Christian teachings.

I discussed this for years with teachers, ministers and fellow "Christians." I could not make sense of constantly repeated "God's in control. God knows. Trust God."

When I was younger, after my father was killed in a car wreck-I began to question-that's never allowed.

I sounded alot like you-very angry. After good things like love, marriage and children I softened my mental approach.

I think life's lessons and the pursuit of your truth will continue to take you on a journey.

I think you are a very thoughtful guy with alot going on in your head. I applaud your wish to continue to question, don't always be so complacent in what others tell you.

If anyone tells you they have the answer, they're lying. Truth is, no one knows. Be true to yourself, your mind and your heart-there lies the answers.

a reply to: zosimov

?Is existence better than oblivion.

Since we are in a position of being alive to ask that question then the obvious answer is yes.

a reply to: Justso

A very thoughtful and compassionate response. I'd disagree that questioning is not allowed.. we should never stop questioning. If we believe God created us, we also have to believe he created our inquisitive minds as well. However, problems may arise if the questions lead nowhere, or toss us about, without any "rock" to stand on.

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: zosimov

?Is existence better than oblivion.

Since we are in a position of being alive to ask that question then the obvious answer is yes.

Is it really that obvious? It is quite a crucial question. Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that God did create life. Would it have been better had he never created it at all?

Would you trade life and all your experiences for nothing, or are you glad to be alive?

When people blame God for all of the troubles of this world I don't think they are considering that question.

a reply to: zosimov

Thank you for your response. My experience growing up in a very religious family did not allow questions-that was almost blasphemous. I agree-we should always be questioning-that's how we learn.
I was told about "the rock" but felt that was just another deceit in the Christian religion I was taught. "the Rock" to me is just another quote tossed around without understanding -just another chain to control one's personal independent beliefs.

Again, I have no proof if God created us; neither does anyone else.

I have to be honest with myself and others. Just where is that rock? How was it made-with what? Those answers have never been proven or established except in the minds of those Bible believers-the Bible is a story without proven substance but that is a conversation for all times-looking for proof.

God gave us free will. Some try to be good in spirit. Some listen to evil and are evil in spirit. To be of the physical / natural world is to be cursed by physical threats and nature.

a reply to: Willtell

One can theoretically receive an inward personal microcosmic inner apocalypse through difficult inner development but that’s rare.

I can see this ideas of yours as a way of describing a fear Amagydala overload that afterwards brings the calm and then the bliss (energetic body state). It is true that some souls go directly from "crawling" to "running". But there are tools to learn how to "walk" after "crawling" so that the Amagydala plug is weakened over time.

The question is when will humanity reach 10% who know this by experience that are still alive.

originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: BlackProject

Jesus is religion, as religion is jesus

Not at all... you must not have studied Jesus. He never wanted a label and was most certainly a radical of sorts. He created a following based upon the kindness and love he shared. He taught others what God is which is.... LOVE!!

Goodness. I know all there is to know about this, my point is Jesus is a product, of religion. Therefore his entire story, life and anything to do with him is part of the lie the Bible tells.

God is not love, maybe your reading the wrong book I have read because its nothing but hell on earth what is promotes.

I feel my energy spent replying in this way is better spent elsewhere, sadly.

And Paul created that product. Jesus dying for our sins when Yeshua taught sheeps and goats where you prove yourself by your fruits and are divided by them.

There are some dualistic (us vs them) ideas in the new testament that do not measure up when you understand non dualistic concepts like Nanak, Buddha and Rumi teachings are an example off.

I do believe divine and demonic is behavior patterns and humans have created in Yahweh a mix of both and I think it is wiser to be an atheist to Yahweh and follow the divine pattern because sooner or later if you do good something good will say hi.

And do not trust my words. Test it yourself.

a reply to: cooperton

Have you read the Bible? Jesus preached unconditional loving kindness, selflessness, humility, patience, etc.

Yeah? How did that work out for Jesus? The world?

originally posted by: BlackProject
Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help the innocent people who died for no reason while the others ran free? ..

Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? ...

And those "countless" wars fought in the name of God, could you actually name even one (the point being that the motivation for war is usually a power grab or greed and hardly any war has ever been about religion).

Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? ...

How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus ...

Your'e sure they are God's fault, not the consequence of actions committed of human free will?

Perhaps you could name a conflict where God was an actual combattant? Surely that would really pin the blame on Him.

I'm talking about all organised religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh*t to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasising mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that want to run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise.

People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. I'd be need to be crazy to believe that distortion of reality. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me......

The world in a nutshell....

I counter claim that it is the ignorant, vilifying, selfish and greedy bigots that are the cause of all humanity's ills, not those attempting to perfect themselves, be peaceful, forgiving, law abiding and improve the lives of others.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: cooperton

Have you read the Bible? Jesus preached unconditional loving kindness, selflessness, humility, patience, etc.

Yeah? How did that work out for Jesus? The world?

Well, I can't imagine being tortured to death was pleasant but Jesus apparently survived death and is waiting for the maximum number to be saved before He sits in judgement.

The evil that existed before He came is still evident and prophecy tells us that some will never give up that evil.

So Jesus will put an end to evil by one means or another.

originally posted by: BlackProject
Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help the innocent people who died for no reason while the others ran free? ..

Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? ...

Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? ...

How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus ...

I'm talking about all organised religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh*t to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasising mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that want to run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise.

People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. I'd be need to be crazy to believe that distortion of reality. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me......

The world in a nutshell....

What you say is mostly true.

But of course not all "religious" people are nuts. There are those who attend church services and pray, meditate, read scripture and believe in a better existence after death and do so without harming anyone.

Then there is the nut who needs to "prove" his/her beliefs are true, not just true but the only truth there is. Of course this is impossible (to prove or disprove) so they can get away with demonizing everything that isn't their faith.

Those people who have a need to prove their faith don't have any faith and betray this by needing to argue about the various aspects of their own religion in public, online and everywhere they go.

The biggest offenders are from the most popular religion, Christianity. It's actually a virtue in Christianity to put down other faiths ESPECIALLY the one's that have a close relationship with Christianity, i.e. Islam and Judaism.

Meanwhile the formerly peacefully coexisting Islam and Judaism are now in a territorial fight for the Holy Land with the Israelis as conquerers and invaders, Muslims as defeated victims.

Yet the world sides with Israel due to Holocaust sympathy even though they have no legal or ethnical ties to that land. The few truly Semitic Israelites who live in Israel and lived in Israel before 1967 are "second class" Jews as are Ethiopian and Karaite Jews.

The whole Christian world has the image of the evil terrorist injected into their minds and are so used to being told what to believe that they actually think that Islam is evil while they are the victims of American and Israeli aggression and agitprop on a massive scale. The media is complicit and crucial in this despicable scam which is no surprise as everyone knows that the media is dominated by Jews, mostly Zionist and/or Sabbatean (Hollywood especially).

So I say to Christians and Jews: Stop supporting wars in the Middle East. Stop slandering Islam.

The rest of the religious world seems to be neutral and non violent. Hindus and Buddhists aren't invading nations, just the so called Abrahamic faiths which was all planned out long ago to culminate in a staged Armageddon with the goal of world domination as the end game.

Christianity is f.o.s. since Constantine and Judaism is just a front as today's Jews aren't even Judahites but Ashkenazi and not Semites.

Yet they yell Anti-Semite every chance they get, every time they do something evil it goes unreported but every time Islam fights back it is not viewed as self defense but another reason to invade another country.

America needs to stop supporting Israel and so does Christianity. They hate everyone and will kill anyone to build that stupid temple where Islam's Holy Dome of the Rock sits.

a reply to: chr0naut

For all his supposed teachings of unconditional loving kindness, selflessness, humility, patience, etc, it did nothing to save him from public humiliation, torture and death, nor anyone for that matter. I would not want to teach my children take up a career, or follow in the footsteps of one that would lead them to the same fate.

Religion is a tool
doesn't make the tool bad
depends on how its used

it could be viewed as an exercise in self discipline

morals in a story

blaming God is something we all have done or will do

but what if God wants us to save the innocent ?
destroy the evil ?

its our lack of coherent compromises with each other
our easily divided civilization
our corruptible nature
that robs us of our power to do it

we don't want that man to drown
but then we find out he's a biggot
2nd thoughts about saving him ?
does our compassion come at our convenience ?

" love your enemies " ?

maybe it means forget your divisions...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BlackProject

Hmmm, no those elements did not come from the earth. They came from stars which came from the Big Bang and its expansion.

Where did that came from?

Religious people always use this line. It is obvious at our current state, we cannot explain this. However, we have explanations and scientific proof that other things work and exist. Why because the very computer your writing your message on is thanks to science. The fact you lead a somewhat healthy life, with filtered water to your home and a TV that intercepts signals. You and other religious people are literally the most ungrateful group of people on this earth.

Those elements did come from earth, which came from stars, which came from expansion of the universe. This. Is. Obvious.

Looking at your english however of your text, you can't debate such technical talks.

a reply to: Taxiarch

This is not about calling religious people nuts, this is about pointing out the very fact that those that follow religion are pawns. Believe it or not.

The overseeing eye on our lives is designed to keep people in check.

a reply to: BlackProject

Not sure if anyone said this but that speech in the OP is from Mr. Robot. Season 2.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: BlackProject
Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help the innocent people who died for no reason while the others ran free? ..

Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? ...

And those "countless" wars fought in the name of God, could you actually name even one (the point being that the motivation for war is usually a power grab or greed and hardly any war has ever been about religion).

Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? ...

How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus ...

Your'e sure they are God's fault, not the consequence of actions committed of human free will?

Perhaps you could name a conflict where God was an actual combattant? Surely that would really pin the blame on Him.

I'm talking about all organised religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh*t to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasising mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that want to run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise.

People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. I'd be need to be crazy to believe that distortion of reality. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me......

The world in a nutshell....

I counter claim that it is the ignorant, vilifying, selfish and greedy bigots that are the cause of all humanity's ills, not those attempting to perfect themselves, be peaceful, forgiving, law abiding and improve the lives of others.

I love you religious nuts.

I would have to sit you down for good week to explain the very notion of war and religion as a duo. Religion is imprinted into law and choices made to dominate the world. It all stems from control and power, those of you who follow religion or find it in anyway helpful show how soft in the mind those that follow it are.

This notion of free will and not Gods doing is absurd. Utterly absurd. It is like putting a child in a room full of sharp objects and saying its the child's fault for hurting itself.

It is a shame that most humans can only open their minds to this point, its saddening for the human race.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Yep, did not say it was originally my words. I wanted to share the point and it makes perfect sense.

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
Has anyone wondered why God needs souls.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere! Interesting question.. have you wondered why some people long to have children? Why mothers nurse and rock their children to sleep?

People still choose to have kids, even well aware of the horrors the world can offer, and I would guess this is because life is better than oblivion.

Do you agree (that life is better than nothing at all)?

To carry the metaphor out, I'd say that God wanted to create souls in order to love them, bestow them with life, just like we do.
But on a much grander scale, probably.

Your point about a particular heaven is well taken. I'll think on it a bit and see if I can offer any reasonable answer.

I would say most people have children because they have nothing else good going on in their lives or wish to portray what they did not achieve onto their children. Those that are not pushy are sometimes due to unplanned children or children being born just because. People are fools to themselves. Also, most people feel the need for children in their lives due to governments back in the 1900's and before telling their population to have children, why. To make more soldiers to fight their wars..... People are so lost, honestly...