MiG- Firefox

Siberian, we know NATO can't, it's called freaking advanced technology. America is over 6,000 miles away through the pacific. You will obviously need transports to get the troops there.

Now, when you have an advanced navy, advanced Air Force, you can do some pretty nice damage to the transport ships.

So the problem isn't the troops being good, the problem is if they can swim or not.

And seriously, I really think you're doing this to be funny, I honestly do not think anyone can be this stupid.

And guess what, the Serbian Special Forces, is made up a few thousands soldiers, pit that against several hundred thousands of Marines, that's a recipe for a massacre on the Serbian side.

Plus, who needs special forces, when you have Talon Robots, and UAVs, have a machine do all the work.

The Serbian Special Forces are very well trained Soldiers, I do not doubt that, I don't think anyone here doubts that, but so are the American Marines.

Have you seen what our Spec Ops, and Covert Ops are capable of?

Seriously, get it through your thick skull, noone is basing this on films, we are basing this on real life fact, both sides will suffer Casualties.

Now, seriously, you need to stop, you will get into trouble for this, members will not put up with it.

Neither will the mods, we do not need this nationlistic pride here, there are members from all over the world on ATS, and noone wants to hear your arguments on how much Marines suck, and how good Serbian Special forces are, because we ain't having it here.

There are people who will agree that America is not the best, I agree that America is not the best, but you are a damn fool if you think that Serbia can single handidly beat America, a damn fool.

This is why, WE HAVE LARGER NUMBERS IN OUR ARMY THEN YOU HAVE IN HALF YOUR NATION!

And that is a large exagerration I know, but it gets the idea through.

We are way better than you, and this is coming from a person who doesn't necessarily enjoy listening to "America can beat you". I do not like listening to that, and I am stating it, because it's true, you cannot avoid the facts, you can post as much anti-american news as you want, as many pro-serbian pics as you want, but it will always remain evident, America can beat Serbia.

So please, stop this, no longer will we continue on this topic, concentrate on the MiG-31 FireFox, this talk is an insult to the creater of the thread.

So quit being a dumbass, and just talk about the MiG-31, if you have nothing to say about it, then don't talk.

Shattered OUT...

P.S. What I had to say about the Fire Fox has already been stated, I just wanted to end this little squable before mods got into it and closed the thread, it wouldn't be right to the creater.

Serbia has 150Thousand troops pal so 200thousand NATO Troops would be creamed in 5to 6 days so I don't know what your talking about a few thousand special forces guy nato will be fighting the entire 150K Army

What happened to this thread?
It was about the fictional Mig Firefox and somehow degenerated into a rant about Serbia...

Back on the subject - I find it interesting that a movie made in 1982 would show an aircraft that incorporates some 1st gen stealth characteristics some 8 years prior to the real aircraft being revealed to the general public.

(I rented the movie the other night just to see what you guys were talking about)

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies


Behind enemy Lines was a good movie, and based on true events, but you must understand that the pilot did survive, which means the enemy couldn't do crap about it.


Shattered OUT...

Just before the thread gets back to firefox, I thought behind enemy lines was a another propagandanistic movie for the USAF/MC...
and it was pretty boring (documentarish) until the jazzy hollwood 'amerrikanske' finale...soooo corny

Btw..did "mozilla firefox" get the idea from here??

[edit on 25-1-2005 by Daedalus3]

yup,
i agree, time to get back on topic about this fictional plane of unique shape and character.. Ben Rich gave the go ahead, said build it, so Apogee did. I find it very interesting that the f-117 also has faceted design charateristics. loved this plane since i was a kid so making an exact replica of it,will offer private commisioned pieces once finished.
William

I assure you that f-18 pilot was captured and the whole thing of him running to the rescue chopper thing was setup like that to make the American population feel heroic, look at him does he really look like some one who was eating nuts and forest things for a week, come on man no one is that dumb to beleive that especially military personel trainned to live of the earth. P.S Intel girl do you live in Arizonia?

[edit on 26-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
I assure you that f-18 pilot was captured and the whole thing of him running to the rescue chopper thing was setup like that to make the American population feel heroic, look at him does he really look like some one who was eating nuts and forest things for a week, come on man no one is that dumb to beleive that especially military personel trainned to live of the earth. P.S Intel girl do you live in Arizonia?

[edit on 26-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Ok, I will continue with this, I realize how much you are laughing at us right now, but we should be laughing at you, because you are a moron, you laughing in the mirror.

Who are you trying to kid, noone can possibly be this stupid, look what you typed for christ's sake, it's so retarded. And I'm sorry to say, the pilot was captured, but he was rescued later, and the equipment had been captured as well, the original rescue was late, but the second one retrieved the pilot.

Look, get off the freaking subject, OK?

We are talking about the FireFox, so get off of the subject, and post on the firefox, how many times do other people and me need to tell you? Get off of it!

Shattered OUT...

What I was saying was anyone who is an Army soilder or a Marine who was trainned in survival tech knows very we Scott Obrady could not have looked so healthy as he did in his supposed rescue if he really was living for a week in the jungle with no food eating bugs and I think he said a squrile also but I'm not sure, any person who has gone threw the survival trainning programs at military trainngs AND has seen real pics of soilder's who have benn eating bugs for a week knows very well O'Brady here was not deprived of food for a whole week, he was captured and realesed asa negotiantion. THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING now let's get back to the MiG Thing.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
I assure you that f-18 pilot was captured and the whole thing of him running to the rescue chopper thing was setup like that to make the American population feel heroic, look at him does he really look like some one who was eating nuts and forest things for a week, come on man no one is that dumb to beleive that especially military personel trainned to live of the earth. P.S Intel girl do you live in Arizonia?

[edit on 26-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Ok, I will continue with this, I realize how much you are laughing at us right now, but we should be laughing at you, because you are a moron, you laughing in the mirror.

Who are you trying to kid, noone can possibly be this stupid, look what you typed for christ's sake, it's so retarded. And I'm sorry to say, the pilot was captured, but he was rescued later, and the equipment had been captured as well, the original rescue was late, but the second one retrieved the pilot.

Look, get off the freaking subject, OK?

We are talking about the FireFox, so get off of the subject, and post on the firefox, how many times do other people and me need to tell you? Get off of it!

Shattered OUT...

Not necessarily...we're talkig about movies with jets and so the F-18 bit can be discussed..nothing criminal...

about this rescue... did they rescue the pilot from custody or did he escape on his own..
what happened to the co-pilot...
And the equipment??

There was no Co-Pilot. The equipment was destroyed I think, and the Pilot was released and then aquired by Rescure forces. I think a spy exchange?

Shattered OUT...

originally quoted by Daedalus3

Not necessarily...we're talkig about movies with jets and so the F-18 bit can be discussed..nothing criminal...

Actually, this thread is titled "Mig - Firefox". It says nothing about others, the original poster wanted opinions of the Firefox Mig-31 not other jets... afraid you are definitly off topic so lets talk about the Firefox did you ever see the film?
personally i think the movie build up was kinda boring. Once Gant gets the plane though, you can't not watch it, excellent state of the art effects for 1982. By the way the R/c planes did fly for real so the design does work to an extent,wing and fuselage surfaces are way to busy panel wise for a mach5+ aircraft though... But I have always loved the plane anyway..
my 2 cents

William

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Wbnemo1]

Originally posted by Wbnemo1
originally quoted by Daedalus3

Not necessarily...we're talkig about movies with jets and so the F-18 bit can be discussed..nothing criminal...

Actually, this thread is titled "Mig - Firefox". It says nothing about others, the original poster wanted opinions of the Firefox Mig-31 not other jets... afraid you are definitly off topic so lets talk about the Firefox did you ever see the film?


William

[edit on 27-1-2005 by Wbnemo1]

as I said its not DRASTICALLY off-topic, both involve USAF pilots in USSR..more or less..and even if its a detour ..nothing criminal..

and yes I have seen the movie..

The Movie behind Enemy Lines takes place in Yugoslavia, after an F/A-18 was shot down, it was carrying special survelience equipment.

Both movies are really different, so to say they are not dramitically different would be wrong.

And let's stick to the MiG-31 FireFox from now K?

Sorry people, I have not seen the movie, so I would have no idea what the movie was like.

Shattered OUT...

Unfortunately, that would not be stealthy. Huge square (!) intakes on both sides of the aircraft, plus canards, make for an unstealthy aircraft.

Still looks awesome, though.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Sorry people, I have not seen the movie, so I would have no idea what the movie was like.

Shattered OUT...

haha..then maybe it would be in your best interests to stick to "behind enemy lines" afterall...
Sorry I confused yugoslavia to be a re of the former USSR..my bad..

Well,
I saw the movie when I was a teenager in 1982, always waited for the plane to be produced as a kit, never was. I started making models and flying rockets of it (modified from a "d"powered Black Brant 3 of all things). Anyway, I used to make all kinds of models of it, waited for it to show up on TV, then made sketches and such of the details and general shape. Later in college I learned to use CAD. before that point I had been hand drawing everything, including my Nautilus pics. My cad drawing was drawn, redrawn and kept changing as I acquired more and more information about the plane. The laser disc came out and I traced it off the TV (sound familiar). about 1996 or so I talked to a gentleman that as a kid had actually talked to the original studio that made the effects miniatures, Apogee. The guys at the shop were so enthralled that someone had contacted them. they sent him a set of studio drawings..this is the short version of this story ..Anyway, I found contact with this guy and he agreed to send me a set of these drawings. There were nine drawings detailing every aspect of the plane, including the detailed turkey feather patterns for the engine nozzles. The drawings provided development patterns for the nozzle itself. Then there were the McDonnell Douglas Phantom F4-E landing gear drawings, and a ducted fan placement and wing rib drawings for the radio control flying model fox's made for the film. The most important drawing of all to me, was a close up of the nose showing the faceted shape of the plane (this is where all models replicas have gone wrong to date) top view, front view, and side view. Then, on separate drawing, there was the side detail elevation of the plane drawn a a smaller scale including all intakes, landing gear and undercarriage. another drawing sheet had the landing gear bay doors with the double panel and detailed inserts. This is stuff that Fox fans drool over if they like details. Four years later in year 2000, I got in contact with someone that knew about a 63" Firefox model that still existed, long story short, was able to get about 40 photos of it. OK now I have all my reference I would ever need.
I Started back up my cad drawing and proceeded to trace the Fox right off the plans as the shape was exact to what they ended up with for the film. Then I took all my photos and referenced certain points for certain details. This allowed me to transfer all details from the "hero" 63" straight to my drawings, panels, wing brakes, speed brakes, rearward defense pods, tail drone and chute unit, landing gear and under carriage, virtually every detail necessary to model this plane to the likeness of the film "hero." Then with countless hours and a later released DVD version of Firefox, a friend and total Firefox fanatic, Adam and I went back and forth detailing the entire cockpit as per film, calling out common used pieces of equipment, from the F 4 Phantom. I then transferred this information to the CAD drawings for pattern making. This is the plane currently under development should be a real pretty plane replica when finished. I will keep those interested advised of it's progress. I hope to attend my first Wonderfest this year, and will hope to bring a finished plane with me, and perhaps a few other surprises..we'll see.
Best,
William

The movie was a damp squib compared to the novel. There are such nice things about books that movies can never replicate.
Even though the model in the movie looks futuristic, it's shape would be of little practical use today. First, it would be highly unstable (not a problem for FBW), huge vortices would be generated under the wing, increasing drag(wingtips not as big as the Valkyrie), huge radar returns and so on.... Anyway, it's just a movie, but the shape was certainly unusual for that era.

that's an odd statement considering the Firefox isnt the only plane around that uses faceting for stealth, take for instance, the f117. That plane was built and flying long befre firefox film came out in 1982...as far as stable flying, they built two radio control firefox planesfor the film that were surprisingly stable just had major trouble with high winds in Greenland for the film shoot.......
William

got an update for my 1/32 scale scratch build Firefox model..it's not lookin too shabby

go here for pics..
Best,
William

www.rpf.invisionzone.com...

Originally posted by Wbnemo1
got an update for my 1/32 scale scratch build Firefox model..it's not lookin too shabby

go here for pics..
Best,
William

www.rpf.invisionzone.com...

I am very impressed.

I really really want one of those RC ones myself