Catholics are not Christian?

As I've said before when discussing my rather late-in-life coming to faith, it's very difficult for me to discuss these topics because of my social anxiety. Especially since my position is one unlikely to be popular with protestants or Catholics. But I will try to at least speak my piece as I feel that's what He would want me to do.

This is ultimately, when you come down to it, the same old protestant vs Catholic vs other denominations vs everyone else argument re-parsed in another form imho. Therefore my position is this and nothing more (and again, I know this won't be embraced by some on either "side"): anyone baptized in name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and who professes the faith, is to me a brother or sister in Christ.

There are things about every denomination that could be argued to be non-scriptural if one really gets down to it. And beyond that, even if that weren't the case... no one could deny the simple truth that every denomination, from the laity to the priests to the highest authorities and/or elders, are all sinners regardless. Including myself. If we're looking for perfect holiness, that isn't to be found among any of us imo. That's why we choose to believe in and rely on Him, is it not?

Moreover, we are supposed to bear with one another in love and charity, patience and forbearance - mutual chastisement yes, but it says "in song" I believe for a reason - because the golden rule doesn't cease when we disagree with our brothers and sisters doctrinally, surely, right?

I'm sure we will all be found wanting to some degree in the end. I choose to rely on Him and ask Him to correct me if I am wrong, to chastise me if I need it, and to help me love my brothers and sisters - and beyond our faith, all my human brothers and sisters of all faiths (or no faith) as well, and to help conform me to the greatest extent possible to the ways and mercies of Christ. The judgment part, I leave in the hands of our Father.

Maybe one group is more in contravention of God's law than another. Maybe we can even parse scripture to make arguments as to why that's the case. But the judgment itself, I leave to Him. My job is to love and serve to the extent able, and to worship Him in humility as best I can until I die. And to summon the courage to say what my conscience feels moved to say by what I pray is the Spirit when I have to.

(And to ask for His aid in bearing the cross that is my overwhelming fear and anxiety the rest of the time.) That's what I believe. I respect the beliefs of everyone else.

That's all I wanted to say.

Peace.

a reply to: pheonix358

you missed the point my meekness is in Christ

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Taxiarch
What church do you belong to, I bet it's a cult. I am a Gnostic, I have Knowledge of the Truth by the Great Spirit of God Most High through the Logos of God. You have issues.

Gnosticism IS in fact cult indoctrination.

No ifs ands or buts about it.

It also has no more credibility than any other cult out there.

Define Gnosticism, as I have no doubt you are incorrect that it is a cult (although there may be Gnostic cults, just like Christian cults). Gnosticism is nothing like religion that it could be called a cult as it's focus isn't on a human leader (a requirement to fit the definition of cult) but on self discovery and contemplation of the Divine OUTSIDE the confines of dogmatic religious beliefs.

It has no organization that is even capable of doing this and exists as a side of every religion. Christianity has the Nag Hammadi texts, Islam has the Sufis and Judaism has the Kabbalah, all considered by the orthodoxy to be deviations from the usual indoctrination that comes with orthodoxy.

Religion is indoctrination, Gnosticism is freedom from indoctrination.

Some have said that Gnosticism was considered to be the Scientology of the Second Century, and I completely agree...

You agree BECAUSE you've been indoctrinated not because you know the truth.

There are LITERALLY no similarities between (I assume you mean the Nag Hammadi texts when you say Gnosticism as does every indoctrinated Christian, I also assume you are a Christian but that's just obvious) Gnosticism and Scientology and all that you are doing is showing that you believe ridiculous comparisons made by people hostile to Gnostics when you say you agree.

The Gnostics were Christian, before Nicea and the law of Canon, who believed that Jesus was a savior and teacher of knowledge and wisdom. They had an elaborate Cosmogony that resembles modern Kabbalah and in no way, shape or form resembles a pseudo psychology self help cult founded by a lunatic science fiction writer. I think you are heavily indoctrinated, maybe you should read the writings of the Gnostics before deciding to make absurd claims about it.

Satanic practices throughout the world can be traced in an unbroken line directly back to Gnosticism...

Really? How so, in your own words that is?Anyone can find a link that says anything but why don't you display some of YOUR knowledge and tell us how Satanism is descended from Gnosticism.

I will help you, it is not. In all known Gnostic writings that mention Satan he is the enemy so I don't see how that could possibly make it the root of Satanic practices.

I think you are confusing enlightenment with Satanism. Gnosis means Knowledge, unless you think that knowledge is satanic or that Christ was the devil you are just completely bashing something that you have no knowledge of.

Curse of Canaan

The current Illuminati religion is based on Gnosticism...

The Illuminati, seriously? You are REALLY indoctrinated if you think that the Illuminati is real. ROFLMFAO!!!

Simon Magus -- The lluminati's Jesus?

To understand how people are being brainwashed by The Illuminati to hate God and accept the coming Anti-Christ ... You must understand gnosticism! Even the first century church had to deal with these heretics... They claim that the devil is the savior and our God is a devil! They invert the truth!

Illuminati Satanic Gnosticism EXPOSED

Eustace Mullins does not say Gnosticism is evil, Henry Makkow is a shill and not a single Gnostic text even MENTIONS Simon Magus.

Simon Magus was the alleged founder of the Simonians and literally no reliable historical information about him exists. Some say he was really the first Pope and/or Peter. More think he was a pseudonym for Paul.

Either way he has nothing to do with the Egyptian/Syrian Christians who were dubbed "Gnostics" by the early persecutors of the Latin Christian church. That was propaganda by the heresiologists.

You have much to learn, as do we all.

That's no excuse for errors made out of contempt for something you don't know or understand.

a reply to: Murgatroid
I believe you are misunderstanding not just Gnosticism but the correct definition of what a cult is…

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Gnosticism IS in fact cult indoctrination.

No ifs ands or buts about it.

It also has no more credibility than any other cult out there.

A cult is a system of religions veneration which usually involves some type of devotion directed towards a charismatic leader or object/system, and usually includes some form of fear tactics…

Mormonism is a cult, Jehovah witnesses are a cult, and scientology is a cult too IMO…and there are many many more…

As for Gnosticism there are so many different groups which all have similarities and some differences. Many Gnostics actually believed in Jesus, and incorporated many standard Christian motifs into those beliefs.

The closer you study the history of Christian Gnosticism the more you begin to realize just how closely it resembles many aspects of early Christianity; the 2 are inextricable linked together, not just is historical terms, but with very similar theology. Of course there are key differences but there also differences today among various Christian denominations.

It could even be argued that Christian Gnosticism is just another denominational form of Christianity that has just as much right to exist as all the other denominations put together…In fact, the early Essenes/Nazarenes were the proto Christian Gnostics…Anyone that’s done any real study/research will be aware of this…

And just like in those Essene communities, Gnosticism has no hierarchy, there are no threats to induce fear, no charismatic leaders to be blindly followed, no dogma is enforced onto anyone through threats or coercion, and everyone is considered equal. Everyone is considered to have that spark of the divine in them i.e. a son of God, which just so happens to be a Christian teaching/idea…

Let me guess, every other Christian religious denomination is a cult, except yours…?


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Great response.

I agree with you that Gnosticism is not a cult. Gnostics are those who seek or attain knowledge of transcendence arrived at by interior intuitive means (gnosis). It is a personal religion - not an institutionalized religion. Any path of Knowing Thyself is Gnosticism...

I don't believe in labels, however, I identify with Gnosticism due to subscribing to esoteric Christianity most of my life. I have subscribed to not only the Gnostic path, but also the Hermetic, Sufi, Vedic, and Buddhist paths along with many mystical schools of thought. All the same at its core.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: 2012newstart

I congratulate the idea of pope Francis to organize Nicaea 2 council.

Hang on... there was already a second Nicaea in 787ad

What are you talking about?

I know there is a second Nicaea council in history.

I am talking of the proposal of Francis to organize ecumenical council in Nicaea for the anniversary of the first Nicaea council in 2025. Yes technically it would be Nicaea 3. There is a long time until then, everything may happen, and certainly Francis won't be serving pope at that time, neither the ecumenical patriarch in Constantinople.