Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson Claims Government 'Science' Overrides Medical Freedom

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Aazadan
Are you being serious? If taxation were the subject of the thread----well, let's say you need to re-investigate your economics education.
Simply put---government does NOT create needs. That's the first thing you need to understand.
But nice try at derailing the thread to talk about the need for more government....and taxes.

Government provides for needs. Utilities, defense, safety standards, and so on.

Makes you wonder how pioneers made it out west without government to build roads for them.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: DJW001
Oh, you mean like "demand" for health care insurance by passing a law making those of us who have no need for health care insurance into outlaws with a stroke of the pen?
No thanks.

No, that is not what I'm talking about. I hope you never need medical attention, because you will be in for a most unpleasant shock, whether you are insured or not.

You mean why I went to college, gained additional experience in the military, and worked to provide a income for my child. Now that I got to give up what I worked for to those that will not work at the expense of my child. To unmarried couples that can play the system for housing, education, healthcare, food stamps with no penalty living of other person's efforts. Individuals living at a level equal, if not greater than, 50k a year with better healthcare?

originally posted by: neutronflux
Makes you wonder how pioneers made it out west without government to build roads for them.

A lot of them died.

That said, roads aren't optional in todays age. Not only are they a requirement of national defense in order to move goods and troops quickly, but without roads commerce grinds to a halt. Next to utilities, roads are the best investment a government can make in it's country. There is a measurable dollar return on every road improvement, from more fuel efficient travels, to higher capacity, to lower maintenance costs, to less wear on automobiles. Rome became an empire because they had the best roads. America entered it's golden age because it had the best roads.

Roads are important, just because a fraction of people still get to their destinations without them doesn't somehow invalidate the concept.

originally posted by: neutronflux
You mean why I went to college, gained additional experience in the military, and worked to provide a income for my child. Now that I got to give up what I worked for to those that will not work at the expense of my child. To unmarried couples that can play the system for housing, education, healthcare, food stamps with no penalty living of other person's efforts. Individuals living at a level equal, if not greater than, 50k a year with better healthcare?

Greater than 50k per year is pretty disingenuous. If you're single and have enough kids you might get that. But 50k for a single person vs 50k for a family of 6 is a pretty different thing.

Did you know that if you don't have any kids in the US you get virtually nothing? Excepting disability, the only thing you get is food stamps. If you get disability you'll get food stamps plus about 10k per year (maybe 12-13k depending on how much you paid in prior to being disabled). The US welfare system is not designed to support adults, and does not support adults. Its entire philosophy is that it's built to support children that couldn't otherwise be supported, so that they only grow up in relative rather than absolute poverty.

As far as health care goes, that's a bunch of crap. Medicaid can be nice for certain things, like actually seeing a doctor. But that doctor has to accept it in the first place, and then they have to have certain materials on hand to use. Most doctors do it out of charity. If you're paying for insurance, you get a choice in doctors, and you get better care from those doctors.

It does cost money, and I won't argue the ACA hasn't really screwed that up, particularly with deductibles, but... that's how insurance works.

Between this and religious freedom issues, I'm out.

I can't even think of a lesser of the evils at this point. So, I'm sitting it out and popping up popcorn.

*sigh*

-1 possible voter.

a reply to: DBCowboy
Yes, it is an individual issue but the legal issue lies with state legislatures, not in the executive office of the federal bureaucrazy. The interviewer might as well have been asking him what he was going to do about the the designated hitter rule in baseball. It's a diversion. He dodged it as well as he could I suppose without calling the interviewer an idiot for asking a "gotcha."
Heck, when the zombies are approaching....

a reply to: DJW001
I have no idea what you're talking about. I see medical health care professionals on a regular basis. I pay for my medical care and I keep my medical care between me and my medical professional. I don't "need" the government or an insurance agency "helping" me decide on my medical care. If my health deteriorates to the point where health insurance is cost effective, I'll certainly purchase some.
Libertarians believe that we own our bodies----no matter what the Black-Robed Tribe has said about it.

a reply to: Aazadan
That's a fine piece on the importance of roads. Now, think about what nuetron said---he's exactly correct. The pioneers, and even into the 20th century, government wasn't solely responsible for building roads, especially the federal government. States and local communities built roads to their needs. Of every federal road dollar tax collected, only 67 cents gets back to an actual road project. The rest stays in DC. That's just plain crazy. States can keep that administrative loss down to 12 cents on the dollar so why send money to DC and lose a third of it to bureaucrats?
But again, let me gently remind you---that isn't the topic of this thread. So can the deflections stop now?
Gary Johnson is an honest, experienced leader who believes the US Constitution is the best way to run a society. I agree with him so I'm going to vote FOR him and hope that enough of my fellow Americans wake up and realize that we need to at least give some chance to someone not owned, lock, stock and barrel by the barons in the balcony.

a reply to: DBCowboy

All those things you mentioned are personal choices that affect no one but the individual engaging in that behavior. If you dont get vaccinated you could be a key component of a population of humans getting sick.

Sometimes it's not just about freedom, you have to be courteous to those that you share the same space with.

a reply to: Paschar0

how'd you arrive to that decision?

a reply to: Paschar0

Actually, your right on the money

My bad I was in the wrong thread.

originally posted by: doclec
a reply to: DBCowboy

All those things you mentioned are personal choices that affect no one but the individual engaging in that behavior. If you dont get vaccinated you could be a key component of a population of humans getting sick.

Sometimes it's not just about freedom, you have to be courteous to those that you share the same space with.

That's bunk.

"I don't want you to listen to the radio while driving because you might get distracted and run me over."

Ever hear of electronic co-ops. They got their start by Farmers banning together to get power lines to their homes because utilities nor anyone else would.

Can you tell me how indebted the Tennessee Valley authority is. A utility ran by government?

Welfare fraud cost Florida 1 billion in 2012.

From: www.thefiscaltimes.com...

In fiscal 2014 alone, 22 agencies approved improper Medicare, Medicaid and Earned Income Tax Credit payments totaling an astounding $124.7 billion—an increase of $18.9 billion or 15 percent from the previous year, according to a new report.

Yeap, not a lot of wealth being drained through social security and welfare. My bad.

a reply to: Aazadan

Don't know about your state, but single women can get section 8 housing, go to college on the states dime, food stamps, not work and still get a tax return, and get outstanding health insurance from the state.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Possibly run one person over versus probably start an epidempic...

Besides, I still see people talking and texting while they drive so how serious are we really about distracted driving? This is still beside the OP; we have to maintain a balance of freedom and duty to our fellow humans. Part of that duty is preventing mass sickness and part of that prevention happens to be through some vaccines.

a reply to: neutronflux

Don't know about your state but I file a tax return all by myself. I don't get one from anyone.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
The guy is a whack job anyway.

Catch him with Chris Wallace.

Oh boy! lol.

Here he is. He's got some wild ideas, that's for sure.

I bet if elected he would make kids get pot injections and have coc aine helicopters dusting everyone.

a reply to: burgerbuddy
Choppers are so 10s.

Coke drones dude.

a reply to: neutronflux

I didn't say there was no money.

I said they take huge losses. Which they do.

Between trials(successful or failed), research, development, logistics, and finally the fact that most vaccines are given for free to the end user(you and me and a good chunk of the poorest in the world most at risk) and you have losses.

Some are certainly profitable as they sell certain emergency vaccines to governments either for their own research or for stockpiling for emergency situations.