The Mazzini-Pike Bluprint for Global Domination

That’s a foolish sentiment. No one accomplishes anything on their own. They are taught be teachers. They are aided by banks, they are influenced by their parents and they are aided by their friends.

I find this statement very interesting. Would you say most Masons agree with you? Would you say that this is a masonic tenet or central axiomatic truth? I am curious.

Ah, I don't need to answer your questions, Captain Mason. As a rule, I never read posts longer than a paragraph, especially if I know that it's all garbage.

It's rather interesting that out of all the conspiracy forums on this site, only the "Secret Societies" seems to be filled with the very people that the suggested conspiracies are about, which spells out a conspiracy itself.

Forget Mazzini and Pike -- this is far more interesting.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Ah, I don't need to answer your questions, Captain Mason. As a rule, I never read posts longer than a paragraph, especially if I know that it's all garbage.

You are asking questions, why won't you answer them?

Why is another question that comes to mine for your second sentance as well. You started this thread with 7 paragraphs, you'll only read 1?

If you are already convinced that what the members say here is "garbage" why bother posting at all?

I'll answer that one.............troll .

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Not sure about this. The first reference I have is in a book called "Pawns in the Game" by William Guy Carr [1968]. He says:

After an exchange of crdentials Father [Eustace] Eilers [of the Passionist Missions, Birmingham Alabama] provided me with a copy of "The Mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled" written by His Eminence Cardinal Caro Y Rodriguez of Santiago, Chile, first published in 1925.

Carr then says that this Cardinal quoted from Pike's letter to Mazzini, but still no proof.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I'd meant that the story of such a letter being in the British Museum seems to have originated with Freemasonry Watch, although it is possible that it was fabricated elsewhere too. The actually story of such a letter existing is probably tied into the Taxil hoax, because it was expounded upon by the Roman Catholic clergy.

QUESTION: Would Pike have been the same caliber of man without Freemasonry? Would he have thought as highly of himself if he had not been a Freemason? Or was it masonry that gave him the tools to be so strong? Would [insert great non-masonic person here] have been even greater with the tools, comrades and connections Freemasonry provides?

Pike was already in his 40's when he became a Mason, so the fraternity cannot take credit for his character and integrity. However, it seems that Masonry was able to channel his creativity, and set him on the road of a deeper study of philosophy and history.

Also, why do so many masons act as if they know everything when they have so many hidden levels above them? I mean, what's to say that when you ascend to the 33rd level, they won't whisper in your ear; "Guess what! Everything we've told you to deny is actually TRUE! Don't tell the guys on level 27."?

This is a misconception held by many outside of the fraternity. But the actuality is that such levels do not exist. A Masonic degree is not a "level", it's simply the ceremony of being admitted into the fraternity.

To use your example, when a Mason joins the Scottish Rite, he gets all the degrees from the 4° to the 32° at one time; in other words, per your example, no one stops at the 27°. Candidates are seated in the auditorium, and the degree ceremonies are performed by the officers on stage, back to back. They're done in costume, with stage props, lighting, music, etc., identical to plays.

The 33° of the Scottish Rite was originally only an administrative degree, conferred as an honorariam on those who had been elected members of the Supreme Council. The Supreme Council amended its Constitution just over a century ago to allow the 33° to be conferred on any 32° Mason as an honorary degree in recognition of outstanding service. In doing so, they also created two other honors, called Knight Commander of the Court of Honour and Grand Cross of the Court of Honour. These honors are meant simply to recognize those Brothers who take the time and effort to participate.

But it should be stated unequivocally that all Masons are equal; in Masonry, the Level, a craftsman's tool, symbolizes this. A 33° Mason is not on a higher level than a 3° Mason. It's true that the 33° Mason has had a great honor bestowed upon him, but he only has one vote in the Lodge, just like everyone else. And one only has to have the Third Degree to be elected Master of the Lodge, and he's the guy in charge.

Ok....let's say just for giggles that this is the first time I've heard this story, and that I'm an unbiased observer. What proof could you show me that your letter is real? I mean, where is this letter? Why do historians laugh at it, and why do the unbiased authorities deem it a hoax? And if you can't prove it, which means that you yourself don't really know, why are you using it here for propaganda?

And will you answer these questions, or will you just simply ignore them, as most of your conspiratorial colleagues, and just move on to the next line of BS?

Find I'll answer questions but it's not going to resolve anything.
1. What proof could I show that the letter is real? None.
2. Where is this letter? I don't know, by George.
3. Why do historians laugh at it? I dunno, must be funny.
4. Why is it deemed a hoax? Because everybody likes to debunk a conspiracy. On the other hand, there are plenty of unbiased authorities that would say it's not a hoax.
5. Why am I using it as propoganda? Well, I'm not. This is a forum on secret societies involving conspiracies, and I posted along the subject line. Naturally the Freemasons aren't going to even consider this as being true, which is why I'm sort of "ignoring" your input on the matter.

It's like the Air Force butting in and saying there are no ETs at Area 51. Anyone would expect them to say it, they already have, and yet hardly any UFO buffs believe them.

Originally posted by southern_cross3

Find I'll answer questions but it's not going to resolve anything.
1. What proof could I show that the letter is real? None.
2. Where is this letter? I don't know, by George.
3. Why do historians laugh at it? I dunno, must be funny.
4. Why is it deemed a hoax? Because everybody likes to debunk a conspiracy. On the other hand, there are plenty of unbiased authorities that would say it's not a hoax.
5. Why am I using it as propoganda? Well, I'm not. This is a forum on secret societies involving conspiracies, and I posted along the subject line. Naturally the Freemasons aren't going to even consider this as being true, which is why I'm sort of "ignoring" your input on the matter.

Actually, I did, for your benefit, offer to be unbiased, as if I'd never heard of it before. You made the claim, and I asked for some sort of evidence that would demonstrate its truth. Now that you've finally answered my questions, you honestly admit that there is none.

You're correct that this is a secret societies forum, and that some posts here involve conspiracy theories. But ATS is devoted to "denying ignorance"; that would infer that ATS'ers aren't inclined to pick up on any old conspiracy theory, but will investigate the matter to determine its truth or falsehood. After all, anybody with a computer can come on the forum, and post conspiracy theories; to deny ignorance, we first have to discover what it is.

Very well, I see that.

Everybody loves a conspiracy.

Let's leave this at that.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I find this statement very interesting. Would you say most Masons agree with you? Would you say that this is a masonic tenet or central axiomatic truth? I am curious.

I just think its a foolish to think along the lines of " I'd rather be 1/100th of what Pike was but accomplish it on my own."

IMHO, No one really accomplishes anything on their own and I'd much rather be aided in my life by close friends and became a great man than to not receive any aid and be a 1/100th what I could of been with help from others.

Original documents or not, the information is in line with reality. If I say the sky is blue, it doesn't matter if I was intending a hoax or later claimed it was a hoax... because it is true.

Leo Taxil (original hoaxer) died in 1907 long before these wars even begun, the fact that over 100 years now after his death his "hoax conspiracy, just kidding folks" is perfectly in line with history (his future) and our apparent near future means it is true, intentional or not makes no difference.

Dont you get it, it is true because the (info = reality)

REGARDLESS OF WHO WHAT OR WHERE IT CAME FROM AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES TRUE IS TRUE

But if you look a little deeper you can begin to see just what a house fo cards it really is (re-post from an old thread; couldn't find the original):

It looks as though it all started with a certain Nesta H. Webster. She wrote three books of consequence: World Revolution; The Plot against Civilisation, Secret Societies and Subversive Movements and finally The Surrender of an Empire; Plus an autobiography entitled Spacious Days.

She made many claims that, when examined, don’t hold up well to scrutiny, much like today’s conspiracy theorists (which isn’t surprising, as most conspiracy theory today was directly or indirectly influenced by her work).

from: www.cooperativeindividualism.org...

The central tenets of contemporary conspiracy theory owe much to the British author Nesta H. Webster's World Revolution; The Plot Against Civilization (1921), a book that testifies powerfully to the endemic flaws of conspiracy notions.[1] World Revolution describes minute similarities (differences receive little or no mention) found in a variety of secret societies and intellectual movements between the late 18th century and the early 20th century. These, it says, are "proof" that the source of revolutionary upheaval in the modern world "is not local but universal, it is not political but social, and its causes must be sought not in popular discontent, but in a deep-laid conspiracy" (emphasis added). Accordingly, parallels between the rituals, methods, and symbolism of various societies, and the teachings of individuals as various as Rousseau, Robespierre, Owen, Fourier, Marx, Bakunin, and Louis Blanc are interpreted as evidence of an "occult force, terrible, unchanging, relentless, and wholly destructive, which constitutes the greatest menace that has ever confronted the human race."

According to Mrs. Webster, one man started it all: Adam Weishaupt, a renegade Jesuit priest and professor of canon law who founded the Order of illuminati of Bavaria on May 1, 1776. By this account, Weishaupt was the principal architect of internationalism as it became manifest in the 20th century. World Revolution terms him the mastermind of the "terrible and formidable sect" that launched "the gigantic plan of World Revolution" and so earned him a place on the dark side of history as "the profoundest conspirator that has ever existed. " At least some mention of Adam Weishaupt or the Illuminati is found in virtually all contemporary conspiracy literature.

So here we have an author of the 1920’s, attributing the whole of the Illuminati conspiracy to one man. Weishaupt, of course; labeling him as "the profoundest conspirator that has ever existed." Coincidence? I think not... The article continues:

To attempt to refute the Webster account of global conspiracy by pointing out every historical fallacy of the work would be an enormous waste of time. It would be so not because there are no factual errors but because she does not offer support, by references to verifiable "facts," for the crucial aspect of her thesis -- that the key people involved conspired to achieve a common purpose. That critical notion is an inference she makes from the evidence presented, but it is not the only plausible inference. Indeed, other inferences seem more plausible.

Thus, to attempt to refute Mrs. Webster's conspiracy thesis and those of other conspiracy theorists -- one must contend with facts not presented more than with those offered. And to prove a negative -- that is, that there is no conspiracy -- is virtually impossible. That, however, in no way suggests Mrs. Webster's thesis is accurate. Her method is fundamentally flawed; it permits neither verification nor refutation. Consequently, "believers" can accept the conspiracy theory and "nonbelievers" can reject it.

There you have it: the beginnings of the “Illuminati conspiracy,” still shabbily researched and presented; still un-provable and speculative. Is it any wonder modern conspiracy theorists don’t have a leg to stand on?

Then we come to this book: Pawns of the Game by William Guy Carr. It appears that William Carr took the ideas of our Ms. Webster and ran with them; compounding lousy source upon lousy source, going by the already debunked Ms. Webster’s “information” as well as the Taxil Hoax... Well you can see already that his guy just reeks of credibility, right?

"But Axe, www.biblebelievers.org just loves him..."

from: freemasonry.bcy.ca...

...Carr erroneously depicts the USA seal as an insignia of the Illuminati and describes the "all spying eye" without citing any source or documentation. In a later footnote he again claims: "the Great Seal of america is actually the insignia of the illuminati." [p. 53 footnote]

"The significance of the design is as follows: the pyramid represents the conspiracy for destruction of the Catholic (Universal Christian) Church and the establishment of a "One Uorld", [sic] or UN dictatorship, the secret" of the Order; the eye radiating in all directions, is the "all-spying eye" that symbolizes the terroristic, Gestapo-like, espionage agency that Weishaupt set up under the name of "Insinuating Brethren", to guard the "secret" of the Order and to terrorize the population into acceptance of its rule." [p. xiii]

With a breathtaking lack of historical accuracy, Carr claims: "It should be noted that this insignia acquired Masonic significance only after merger of that Order with the Order of Illuminati at the Congress of Wilhelmsbad, in 1782." [p. xiii]

Jumping off from Taxil's lies, Carr continues: "...[Albert] Pike accepted the idea of a one world government and ultimately became head of the Luciferian Priesthood. Between 1859 and 1871, he worked out the details of a military blue-print, for three world wars, and three major revolutions which he considered would further the conspiracy to its final stage during the twentieth century." [p. xiv] "Pike organized the New and Reformed Palladian Rite." [p. xv]

When Carr makes the following claim, it is time to seriously question his sources: "Long before Marconi invented wireless (Radio), the scientists who were of the Illuminati had made it possible for Pike and the Heads of his councils to communicate secretly." [p. xv]

Carr purports to quote Pike's August 15, 1871 alleged correspondence in the British Museum Library but neglects to provide citation. [p. xvi] He also quotes Taxil's lie about worshipping Lucifer citing it as being in a letter sent to his Palladian councils July 14th, 1889 [p. xvi]

And people buy it hook, line, and sinker. Why? They choose to take these people’s word for it, without bothering to research the information themselves.

Then you have guys like Sonny René Stermole who compound the errors and back them up without so much as a shred of personal research... Another victim of this scam, but one who (like some people on this very board) choose to forward it along as fact with no proof.

from: www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

What, among other things, appears so significant in the Illuminist/Masonic plan for three world wars is that the Third Planned War has been enunciated by conspirators as revolving around tensions with the Moslem "world." While the Middle-East has been specifically pointed to in the Luciferian conspiracy as providing the strategic and tactical basis for a Third World War, corollary components could be in the construction stage in other regions of the world, notably India/Pakistan/China.

A Plan for Three World Wars, you might say ? Not my idea. Not my conspiracy. Not my prediction. It is, however, a plan by persons who have much more power and influence than that expressed through the power of the pen. It does, however, substantially include persons who have the lion's share of the power of the pen, that is, the "press." Or, one might say, includes those who have the lion's share, the vulture's share, and the jackal's share. And I'm just trying to hold on to my First Amendment share. And that's a principle shared by many patriotic Americans and Christians around the world.

When was the alleged plan for three world wars penned and by whom?
It was put to writing in 1871 under the auspices of two prominent godfathers of Freemasonry, Mafia founder Giuseppe Mazzini who viewed the subversive and occult structure of Freemasonry as a profound vehicle or "lever" for world revolution, and America's Confederate General Albert Pike, co-founder of the KKK and Supreme Pontiff of Lucifer who re-wrote the degrees of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and who instituted the diabolical Rite of the Palladium to dominate Freemasonry, with the Palladian Rite providing an intensified hands-on course in "fleshly glove" demon possession leading to walking/talking possession of human initiates by Lucifer-associated spirits, demons. The ultimate objectives of the "occult conspiracy" include the establishment of a One-World Government to exercise overt occult oligarchic ruler ship world-wide.

The "Plan" embodies the ultimate in human rights violations, and the world wars which it has spawned have been instruments to achieve even more diabolical objectives. Within the scope of what "Plan" has Freemasonry elicited oaths embracing murder, perjury, and treason ? To what extent have persons been culpable who have operating within the United States as U.S. citizens ? Enemies Within ? Including Presidents ? Beyond Bill Clinton ? Brace yourself.

So many errors, so little time...

And then there’s Myron Fagan, who appears to be, in conjunction with and indeed inspired by William Guy Carr, one of the main contributors to the Illuminati conspiracy theory:

from: www.prolognet.qc.ca...

Recently I came across a tape entitled «The History of the Illuminati» by Myron Fagan in which Mr. Fagan explains in detail what the Illuminati is, how it started, and their conspiracy to form a one world government by the end of the 20th Century. Following are excerpts taken from this tape, based on William Guy Carr's book, "Pawns in the Game".

- Melvin Sickler

So while the crux of the matter, that is, who wrote the “letter to Mazzini” and when, still remains unanswered (we may never know – all that can be said with certainty is that it did NOT come from the hand of one Albert Pike), we can plainly see that the origins of the conspiracy theory surrounding it are dubious at best. When you consider the fact that most if not all of the modern conspiracy sites are repeating this same stuff and using it for a base of their own theories and speculations, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that most of it holds no water. Are there people that are up to no good in the world? Surely. Are there people about that don’t have all our best interests in mind? Certainly. But, when you ask if those people are tied in to a worldwide conspiracy being carried out by Weishaupt’s Illuminati a la Freemasonry, the answer must be a resounding NO.

Case closed.

-Axe out.

Nearly every misconception I've heard of on this subject... all in one place! Goody! :bnghd:

reply to post by cotwom


Funny that this Letter once proudly and arrogantly on display was removed from the Royal Naval Museum directly after the publishing of "Tragedy and Hope" by Professor Carroll Quigley, Clinton's Mentor at Georgetown University.
Clinton, BTW, was a student in his youth with "De Molay", the Bushes,"Skull and Bones" at Yale, and Obama, a "Prince Hall Mason".

Why don't you read that book and Jack Bernstein's, "My Farewell to Israel", too?

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by mcguyvermanolo
reply to post by cotwom

 

Funny that this Letter once proudly and arrogantly on display was removed from the Royal Naval Museum directly after the publishing of "Tragedy and Hope" by Professor Carroll Quigley, Clinton's Mentor at Georgetown University.
Clinton, BTW, was a student in his youth with "De Molay", the Bushes,"Skull and Bones" at Yale, and Obama, a "Prince Hall Mason".

Why don't you read that book and Jack Bernstein's, "My Farewell to Israel", too?

www.youtube.com...

I love it when people reply to posts that are 6 years old.

reply to post by southern_cross3


See this : www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

and read this: www.iamthewitness.com...

The people razzing your post are either not very well read and prejudicially inclined to believe in "Coincidence Theories",
regardless of how much remaining Historical Evidence remains in the Public view..... or...

They are "COINTELPRO" Shills on the prowl debunking everything with key phrases that their search protocols guide them to find.

Mark Twain's comment about true bravery comes to mind. We don't have many thinkers out there left that actually read, comprehend and instantly see the the Programming.

Keep up your Research. You're doing fine!

Originally posted by fordrew
I love it when people reply to posts that are 6 years old.

I love it when people who reply to 6 year old posts give 'at a boy's to members who haven't even logged in since 2007.

Originally posted by mcguyvermanolo
reply to post by cotwom

 

Funny that this Letter once proudly and arrogantly on display was removed from the Royal Naval Museum

According to Miller, it was actually at the British Museum. (Neither account is true, according to museum administrations.)

Clinton, BTW, was a student in his youth with "De Molay"

What's a "student with DeMolay"?

the Bushes,"Skull and Bones" at Yale

Which has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

and Obama, a "Prince Hall Mason".

False.

Brother Mark Twain's comment about ignorance comes to mind:

What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so.