Elizabeth Klarer & Aliens from the Proxima Centauri System (Our Neighbors!)

originally posted by: Jscupa
I immediately thought of this thread when I saw this article

www.express.co.uk...

Wow! Great article and addition to the thread!

For those who didn't see it...

The title of the article is "Earth's Future? Venus was once as abundant of life as earth but is now a planetary corpse"

A statement read: “This type of surface appears ideal for making a planet habitable. There seems to have been enough water to support abundant life, with sufficient land to reduce the planet's sensitivity to changes from incoming sunlight.”

I am so excited to know that - just in general - regardless of the "Venusian alien" stories!

Thank you!

Standard MO of these "psychics" or "contactees". Pick a planet/system that is so far away no information can be verified. Wind your whole story around it. Be dead long before anyone can verify that planet/system is just a hunk of uninhabitable rock/gas.

originally posted by: Mianeye

originally posted by: AboveBoard

LINK - discussion of photos

I always wonder why in old UFO pictures, the UFO always fly with an angle, seems strange for a disk to lean.

When i see this kind of lean i always think hubcaps or like thrown in to the air.

I've heard of them flipping on their sides before and "wobbling" ...Can't find a reference right now for that, though.
While it could have been a hoax, it might also not be - I've seen my own weirdness enough to know that it exists.

The good news is that the photo itself appears to be real, and was taken prior to our computer "special effects" photoshop days. The bad news is that there is no way, other than to believe the story that goes with it, to determine WHAT is actually in the photos.

Great post, thank you. I remember this case and I was hoping somebody would post something interesting about it. I wouldn't hold my breath about its veracity but fun nonetheless!

originally posted by: Mianeye

originally posted by: AboveBoard

LINK - discussion of photos

I always wonder why in old UFO pictures, the UFO always fly with an angle, seems strange for a disk to lean.

When i see this kind of lean i always think hubcaps or like thrown in to the air.

Ah! I found this in the article that Kandinsky posted - it speaks to the examination of the photos and the story surrounding them...



The negatives were examined, and at the time the elderly Ms. Klarer was deemed "too frail" to handle the box camera and a hubcap at the same time. They also could not determine any type of hubcap that could match what is in the photo. The negatives were also examined and found to be un-retouched and authentic.

Cool!

The mystery continues...

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: neutronflux

Dude relax anyone would think you are from there and trying to hide the fact

...if not you remind of marvin....

On topic......cool thread glad you posted, very entertaining

Stories like this with no proof and pure fantasy is what has made Ufologists into a joke. You don't get to the truth nursemaiding a hoax. Just saying

a reply to: AboveBoard

As a skeptic, the Klarer case seems to run along the same lines as all "contract prophets", but then we found her planet.
Now while a lot of her talk is pseudo-science and wild speculation, her speculation on how the planet Meton, which I will call Proxima b from here on, and how it would support life with ships is very interesting.

From the original BBC article:

Most would be extremely inhospitable to life: too big or too hot or too cold. The newly found Proxima b does not sound like much of a paradise either. It is roughly Earth-sized and should be the right temperature for liquid water but it is bathed in sepia light and vulnerable to violent flares so it is definitely not Earth-like. However the fact that it is so close to us - in the relative terms of deep space - suddenly improves the chances of investigating if an exoplanet can be genuinely habitable.

LINK

While it is well with-in the possibility that life has evolved on this planet, I do doubt that given its proximity to the earth that anything more advanced that human life would have evolved on that planet. Still, I do give her credit that she seems to hint that Akon's race did not come from there or even here, but was much older.

Proxima b, which is not the only earth-like planet scientist have found, has such little info on it that we don't even know what its surface is like:

First off, scientists only know Proxima Centauri b’s minimum mass—the smallest it could be—and they don’t know its radius, which means they actually don’t know if it’s rocky or not. “Remember we only have a minimum mass for the planet!” astronomer Elizabeth Tasker wrote on Twitter. “By those stats, I’m a twin of most life forms on Earth!‬”

LINK

from the same article:

“I was really surprised when I read the European Southern Observatory article that was pretty clearly saying, ‘This is the most Earth-like planet we’ve found to date,’” says Lisa Messeri, an anthropologist at the University of Virginia, “despite the fact that in the very same release it said there are no seasons, it’s an 11-day year, the sky would be red, and Proxima Centauri is an active star with solar flares. So in other words: not a very habitable world at all.”

While it does seem that Klarer herself never claimed that the planet Proxima b was earth-like, or at least I don't think she did, these facts do go a long way to show that there is little chance that there is life on or around Proxima b.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Looking at the article more fully, she does not, at the time, call them anything but "Venusians" and talk about "Venus." She is also quoted championing Adamski, so it seems this is possibly an outgrowth of the same story in a way?

A copy cat, or ??

She is said to be a very grounded person in the article, cultured, etc., and not prone to delusions or "psychisms" (psychosis/delusions).

In the article, he tells her he is from Venus. This is back in 1954 and there is no mention of a child or other such relationship, or the name Akon, that I could tell (I had trouble putting the article in order - is a page missing??). I'm wondering if that stuff came later (in whatever manner, whether "revealed to her" by "Akon" or as part of a narrative, for whatever reason, she is making up.)

So - good eye!!!

a reply to: strongfp

If they have medical technology to prolong life and prevent all disease, with all the suffering on earth, pretty crappy not have their society share their enlightenment.

Is this where you say something like we cannot handle the responsibility. Humankind would use it for barbaric purposes to prolong war. Use any cliche you like.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Thanks for joining in!!

It is certainly very easy to be skeptical of this story!! There is a LOT to be skeptical about!

As a historical "find" I think it is extremely interesting, especially taken together with Adamski and his "space brothers from Venus." One wonders at what her motivation could possibly be, and if she perhaps did have an experience that then was "embellished" or "interpreted" to coincide with a narrative that was popular.

I really don't know! She did say that there were more planets in the area in an article I read, so there's that, but this seems to be a very sincere person, with a very bizarre story, and one that points to fiction rather than fact. I honestly haven't gotten to where I can coordinate the timeline of the article Kandinsky published and the timeline of the book - so I'm not sure if her story "evolved" over time, which seems possible.

The "science" of all this is rather dubious, for sure. But it is certainly an interesting historical phenomena at the very least!

- AB

It's fascinating!

- AB

a reply to: AboveBoard

Nice thread mate

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: neutronflux

Dude relax anyone would think you are from there and trying to hide the fact

...if not you remind of marvin....

On topic......cool thread glad you posted, very entertaining

Stories like this with no proof and pure fantasy is what has made Ufologists into a joke. You don't get to the truth nursemaiding a hoax. Just saying

Very true. I find it interesting from an historical perspective, and from a psychological one as well. There is no way this woman could "prove" her story unless her "lover" made himself real and known and did his own interviews and explained his science and such for the world to see and verify. The very nature of "experiences" like this are filled with "high strangeness" and an aura of the fantastical, the impossible, and the strange.

It may be a "blemish" on the "truth," or it may be a clue to a phenomenon that doesn't behave in a rational or normal way, at least to our limited senses. There is much of Mystery in Ufology, and things that leave us scratching our heads in confusion.

I appreciate you want hard-core physical evidence and facts - that is admirable in the search for truth! I don't think people would disagree with you that both of those elements are very welcome, and would make history.

As to this being a waste of time - that is debatable. There are, as I mentioned, other reasons than "ufo truth" to be interested in this story.

peace, and thanks for joining in!

- AB

a reply to: neutronflux

If they have medical technology to prolong life and prevent all disease, with all the suffering on earth, pretty crappy not have their society share their enlightenment.

Is this where you say something like we cannot handle the responsibility. Humankind would use it for barbaric purposes to prolong war. Use any cliche you like.

Well, I wouldn't say that. It would be awesome if an ultra-advanced species were to help us out here. We seem to constantly flirt with our own destruction, and suffer from many diseases as well as self-inflicted problems.

I don't know why "they" - assuming there is a "they" - would or wouldn't. Unless there is some version of Prime Directive and they aren't to meddle. Or it would require such a vast reordering of our society and how we do things as to be currently impossible?

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Orionx2

My approach is to try and dig around to see if she had any interesting new physics to share that jibes with anything we know now, and that is interesting in and of itself. I've learned a lot of stuff I didn't know as a result of doing that!

How far back was the NASA statement about Jupiter's larger mass would have made it a dwarf star? Her book came out in the early 60's, so was this before or after us already knowing about this Jupiter theory. She was in Air Force intelligence so she may have heard this proposed theory back then, but if her claim came first, then that may be something.

EDIT: Oops, her pictures were taken in the 1960's but her book wasn't published until 1980.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Hi Abby! True or not, You have put together a well formed Thread, In My Opinion... Some fascinating stuff to ponder as I wake with coffee in hand! Well done! Nice to see You again BTW!

The key to all life and the Universe lies in the harmonic interaction of light. A mathematical formula for all transportation lies in the vibratory frequencies of light harmonic, with anti-gravity waves and time waves, which are simply the frequency rate between each pulse of the spiral of light.

I find this sentence fascinating. Recent experiments have confirmed spiral forms of light (that can carry orbital angular momentum). Indeed some physicists (including me) believe all matter to be made of light. Particles can be envisaged as made of orbiting light. When the particle is in motion then that orbit becomes a spiral. Mathematically this can explain Einstein's time dilation in special relativity. I wonder if matter particles are what she refers to as microatoms. Certainly I don't think this entirely babble, it could well have some truth in here.

a reply to: AboveBoard

While Proxima b is fascinating to me, I must admit Ms. Klarer's case is also interesting. While I could spend days showing where she got this or that wrong, I find it more fascinating to find parts that are almost right that either she did know something or had an incredible coincidence.

Also as far as timelines go, I would find it interesting if she did revise her story after major things like Chariots of the Gods and Blue Book project and other such major info events in the UFO community. It could have been like Jim Pension and the Rendlesham forest incident where as time went on the story got more complex. Finally he made up some random bindary code, which somehow decoded into a message.

Anyway, I would like to know more about the origins of Akon's race. Do you know of any writings or talks she gave on that?

thanks and

originally posted by: Dr X

The key to all life and the Universe lies in the harmonic interaction of light. A mathematical formula for all transportation lies in the vibratory frequencies of light harmonic, with anti-gravity waves and time waves, which are simply the frequency rate between each pulse of the spiral of light.

I find this sentence fascinating. Recent experiments have confirmed spiral forms of light (that can carry orbital angular momentum). Indeed some physicists (including me) believe all matter to be made of light. Particles can be envisaged as made of orbiting light. When the particle is in motion then that orbit becomes a spiral. Mathematically this can explain Einstein's time dilation in special relativity. I wonder if matter particles are what she refers to as microatoms. Certainly I don't think this entirely babble, it could well have some truth in here.

See, that's what is so cool about this particular "contactee" - there is just enough in the "realm of the possible" to make me scratch my head and want to dig more...

As highly improbable as many aspects of the story are, there do seem to be these little possibilities!

Thanks for illuminating that "Akon quote" (people can find it on the same link as other Akon quotes put in the original posts). I hadn't had time to look at that from a science perspective yet, so THANK YOU for looking at it with your unique knowledge and perspective.

- AB

a reply to: hubrisinxs

I am exactly on the same wavelength with this as you are!!

Finding gems in an unlikely place from a very unlikely source makes this a very interesting story.

I've linked to her book (free online) "Beyond the Light Barrier" and to an interview transcript, and a video (bad sound) of her being interviewed in the OP... I also linked to a nine part video series that is really just the audio of a talk she gave.

I noticed she is held with great respect by the person who introduced her for that speech, and from a psychology point of view, she may have felt pressured to give a "fuller version" by eager listeners, and her imagination may have provided some embellishment. I think that is what happened with Rendlesham as well -- also, if you have a major experience of some kind like that (or believe you have), there is a tendency for memory to twist and sometimes for new "memories" to develop by the sheer weight of concentration one puts on the experience. Couple that with external pressure to "give as many details as you can" and it is a good recipe for a real story to grow bigger than its reality.



- AB

a reply to: AboveBoard

Hey Aboveboard, do you know when NASA first made theories about Jupiter's mass if larger would make her a dwarf star?