The paradox of religion & atheism

It's only after you've been through it all that you do start to get the slightest bit of understanding as to why the world will almost never change. You'll always be ignorant if you can only see one perspective, and you come off looking like a belligerent idiot in the process too. It happened to me several times, and I'm sure everyone has encountered it themselves from time to time. But take this as an apology to anyone here I've offended specifically in regards to religion.

I was brought up in a significantly religious nation. One in which we'd have devotion in schools from as low the grade up to about the end of high school. College, as with anywhere else you're mostly free to do what you want; Well some colleges. I was always a thinker, I wasn't forced into the church by my mother, I didn't go. I didn't see the need to go when I take part in this activity of worship five times throughout a week. After some time I had many thoughts which saw me digress from Christianity. First I became agnostic, at this point, my knowledge of any religion is relatively little. I know stories I know common things but nothing in-depth, I don't and will not devote my life to such a task. However, I was quickly gaining confidence In believing all religions are just utter rubbish.

I eventually became an atheist and was striking at religions left right and center. I had fully come to my terms with my opinion that these books were for mass fear and control, which I still believe to this day. At this point, I was also an avid believer in 'Aliens'. Not once noticing, you can't believe in one without believing in the other. I slowly developed myself and had a few bad interactions with people, and tried my best to figure out why. Always trying to see it from their perspective. Once I had learnt that the world became much clearer.

I understood, if I believe in aliens then how can I rule the idea religions try to propel out of the picture? And on the flip side, why would a christian/any other religious person not believe in aliens? Your creator would match the description perfectly. Both theories are correct, or neither are correct. How can I rule out creationism? And be pro-evolution, you can conceptualize the big bang theory and all other ideas as much as you want. Someone had to set up base parameters to say if object A collides into object B then the expected reaction will be everything humanity has witnessed. But also it doesn't mean evolution didn't take place. We can see it happen almost every day. So once again there is truth in both.

It goes to show, this being one of the most controversial topics will forever remain that way. Not only because you don't have definitive proof, but because you are both arguing the same point from a different perspective. Atheists nor religious people can prove their theory. It's also important to state the idea which some people promote, their perspective of either belief is another cause for a consistent fued. Some people take everything in it's most literal meaning. I've seen atheists complain and bash people who are thanking the lord for the difficult task they may have just completed. However many atheists fail to see that, it's a great way to set up a positive mindset. Many atheists also stand just to try and bring christians down in a way to suggest they are smarter than them, if not consciously, they do it subconsciously. There's no benefit in trying to disprove that which does not exist, if you don't believe then sit back and let people have their way.

If I had learnt anything over the years and through the cycles:
You'll understand the world for what you want it to be.
Your opinion to anyone but yourself is worth exactly what it costs.
Listen more, and believe in what you want, it is essentially your world.

I believe you're on the right track, and the world would be a much better place if more people would have this attitude.
I admire that

Science when it comes over the materialist hurdle will sooner or later explain telepathy/consciousness and even be able to measure what today is unknown.

The reason they will succeed where most religions stagnate is that they in the end in their pursuit of awareness of everything follow the data instead of dumbing down to fit religion.

Many souls reject religions since they are to small to contain the real thing on all levels. You only disbelieve an idea if you have no proof. When you have proof and can examine that proof you become aware of something and can ask even more complex questions. It is a mystery is not a good answer just like materialism is not a good answer when you follow the data/measurement.

Since many eastern philosophies already are built on the idea of change/evolution/awareness instead of idol logical dogma they will follow the date in the end and have less problem handle what is discovered.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
It goes to show, this being one of the most controversial topics will forever remain that way. Not only because you don't have definitive proof, but because you are both arguing the same point from a different perspective. Atheists nor religious people can prove their theory.

Yes, it will always be a very controversial topic, but you're basing this quoted comment on a false premise--neither of these groups needs to prove anything in regard to what they believe.

For starters, atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief system, per se. And since it's impossible to prove a negative, I'm failing to see what you want out of atheists in this regard.

Religion, on the other hand, is based on faith, and not fact or proof. For many religious people, their religious texts are "proof" enough for them, and for others, they believe that tangible proof has been found numerous times that prove the reality of (insert religion here). But the reality is that proof is neither necessary nor desired by most people of faith, so it's generally a non-existent problem for religion, except to debate non-believers who constantly demand proof.

The reality, though is that I personally live my life in a way that desires proof of concepts and ideas for things to which I am expected to devote my life. Being an atheist, I can easily concede that the Christian bible (something that I'm well acquainted with) does have some decent teachings and can be cited in many life lessons, but I just can't subscribe to all of the supernatural things that occur in it as being factual.

As for the existence of aliens, it's good to remember that correlation does not mean causation, and in this instance, believing that we've been visited by aliens or just simply that they exist, and that this correlates with one way to interpret the events and stories of the bible does not mean that the stories of the bible are about "aliens."

It's pretty simple, actually, to argue that belief in one and not the other is an okay thing to do, although I do agree with you that if someone is religious and believes that beings 'not of this earth' actually existed, then they really should agree that alien life is a reality, even if it's not the little green men we see in the '50s sci-fi movies.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Isn't it amazing
Science was originally started to study Gods creation, now you have turned it into a doctrine to usurp God, to prove God is wrong
That is scary because science is no longer impartial, you have given it an agenda

I think it's strange that the op made a logical statement and you have shown a total arrogance to a balance they have requested.
The world is not the WWF, we are not fighting each other all the time
Just accept others have a different view

Continue with your science, please.
Just don't make any magical statements about what it will achieve, that's placing faith into something that is impartial and information, not a belief.

Turning science into a religion, bit weird I think

Great op ST, you won't get any love, there is clear hate and fundamentalism on both sides now

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Isn't it amazing
Science was originally started to study Gods creation, now you have turned it into a doctrine to usurp God, to prove God is wrong

What are you even talking about? Why is every comment you make negative and in defense of Christianity or offensive against not Christianity including the neutral zone of science. Christians are scientists too ya know.

That is scary because science is no longer impartial, you have given it an agenda

Who?

And religion has ALWAYS been driven by agendas. Christianity is no exception. It's the best example of all the religions re: having agendas.

And how is science supposed to exist without some kind of agend (a goal)?

I think it's strange that the op made a logical statement and you have shown a total arrogance to a balance they have requested.
The world is not the WWF, we are not fighting each other all the time
Just accept others have a different view

Why mention the World Wildlife Foundation? What do they have to do with this?

Continue with your science, please.
Just don't make any magical statements about what it will achieve, that's placing faith into something that is impartial and information, not a belief.

Turning science into a religion, bit weird I think

Great op ST, you won't get any love, there is clear hate and fundamentalism on both sides now

So...you hate science because it wants to evolve into something that can explain our existence?

Because you like the pretend version better?

It's not sciences fault that it can't prove God exists. Stop hating on knowledge and education.

a reply to: enterthestage

It seems your agenda is about science disproving God, I thought that was clear in my post

Why do you hate Christians

As for science, it's a strange thing to say I can hate information, that is a strawman argument

Have a nice day

a reply to: SlapMonkey

As a Christian I believe in aliens, non human entity's, the bible is full of them

Anyway I appreciate your moderate views
Christians only by faith is accurate.
I wonder if atheists believe gods don't exist by faith, I mean without evidence, yes it's a quandry and not something I would push an answer for

Believe or don't, it's a personal decision we are all entitled to.
Let's hope science can find an answer, that would be good

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Just because a discussion cannot be solved doesn't defeat the purpose of having the discussion. I see people point out the futility of having these discussions, but just because you don't get anything out of it doesn't mean that someone else who is following the discussion isn't getting something out of it. Always remember, especially on the internet, there are more than just the two of you involved in a discussion. There is also all the people silently listening.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yeah, atheism can work both ways--I prefer factual proof, like I said, in order to believe something that is supposed to save my soul and all that comes with it. But, being scientifically minded, I also understand that a lack of evidence is not evidence that something isn't there.

Maybe one day we'll have that proof of the biblical god, but until then, I have to remain highly skeptical--and by that time, it's probably too late for me, even if I was baptized when I was 7.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: enterthestage

It seems your agenda is about science disproving God, I thought that was clear in my post

I don't think you should be using how things "seem" to you or whoever currently informs you. Science disproving God isn't in my daily thought process and I wouldn't consider it at all because science and God are the same. God is the best Scientist and so much more.

Why do you hate Christians

What is going on here? I never even came close to expressing that I hate anyone. You don't have to hate everyone who doesn't agree with you, you know? I don't hate when I disagree I just disagree unemotionally and it is never a problem.

As for science, it's a strange thing to say I can hate information, that is a strawman argument

Have a nice day

Strawman is like a patsy so how is science a strawman argument because you hate information? Heh heh. Your a sweet kid.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

No, I don't believe it will be too late for you, only that things will get much, much harder.

a reply to: enterthestage

God is the best Scientist and so much more.

. I do think the bible did get the phrase seek and you shall find right.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I just typed that 2 seconds ago was that this thread?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Seriously, I typed that on the thread about many religions and getting to heaven that ask and you...Knock....

Then I checked this right after and you wrote that!!!

Eerie.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SlapMonkey

No, I don't believe it will be too late for you, only that things will get much, much harder.

With the rights souls logical answers and increased awareness can happen at the same time. It might be hard to take the first step to know more but sometimes a soul is moving without knowing it is moving.

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Seriously, I typed that on the thread about many religions and getting to heaven that ask and you...Knock....

Then I checked this right after and you wrote that!!!

Eerie.

Synchronicity. It happens.

a reply to: enterthestage

Again my apologies, I didn't realise you butted into my conversation with little by little, bit silly wasn't I
If I had have known it was you gnosisfaith I wouldn't have replied

Thanks but no thanks

a reply to: SlapMonkey

The reality, though is that I personally live my life in a way that desires proof of concepts and ideas for things to which I am expected to devote my life. Being an atheist, I can easily concede that the Christian bible (something that I'm well acquainted with) does have some decent teachings and can be cited in many life lessons, but I just can't subscribe to all of the supernatural things that occur in it as being factual.

Likewise!
This entire post is fantastic, SlapMonkey.

I want to thank you again for giving me a second chance at civil discourse. What you just said in that post is exactly what I think. Thanks for getting my feet back on the ground here.

BW

a reply to: Raggedyman

The world is not the WWF, we are not fighting each other all the time

Wait. WHAT?

we are not fighting each other all the time

We're not? Who is "we" please?