Conspired Plot To Have Jesus Murdered

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Sorry, just trying to put thoughts down before I lose them. Mary Magdalene holding a skull could represent Mary being John (whose head was cut off).

Mary shares her name with Jesus' mother Mary and John is said to be a "voice in the wilderness" with the wilderness representing Mother Earth.

I got another idea about the “voice in the wilderness"

The OT often uses that phrase wilderness, or dry and desolate land etc…but it’s usually talking about the lack of Spirit in people; a turning away from God etc…, Water is symbolic of Spirit, and there’s generally a lack of water in the wilderness.

So the voice in the wilderness…is that small intuitive voice calling you back to God or to the knowledge of God through the Spirit, and like you said “John the Baptist” represents the Father/Spirit…which is why he is that “voice in the wilderness”…so that makes some sense…IMO


So what you’re saying is that Fathers Spirit is neither male nor female, it’s genderless. And this is being represented symbolically through John the Baptist who represents the Spirit of Father combined with Mary who represents Gods feminine aspect, and Jesus represents the Son being giving birth too, by both Father and Mother. Did I get that right…? lol

That would mean john the Baptist is Jesus higher self i.e. God the Father, while Mary represents the Feminine aspect of Jesus God self too. And in spiritual terms Gods aspects give birth to the Son, any Son, not just Jesus.

I’ve got a hunch/feeling that in the Horus original Story that the two Johns is really one male and one female, and perhaps the divine feminine was covered up and suppressed there completely. Where as in the Jesus story, Mary almost makes it in, but then gets removed at the last moment, only surviving through the Gnostic texts. And that phrase by Jesus In the Gospel of Thomas about how he will make Mary male, seems quite relevant too…

So yeah, Mary holding John the Baptist skull could represent the divine feminine removal, just like you stated…

What do you know about the Rosicrucianism, specifically the Rose and Cross symbol. It’s seems to me that the cross Represents Jesus/God while the Rose represents Mary the feminine aspect of God. They may also have other coded meanings as well…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

So the voice in the wilderness…is that small intuitive voice calling you back to God or to the knowledge of God through the Spirit, and like you said “John the Baptist” represents the Father/Spirit…which is why he is that “voice in the wilderness”…so that makes some sense…IMO

Yes, in my opnion that makes perfect sense. John is the voice within the wilderness, the Spirit within the body.

Did I get that right…? lol

I believe so!

The Spirit is compared to both water and wind in the bible, water being feminine and wind being masculine, the Spirit is androgynous in that way. When wind meets water waves are created, animation occurs. Jesus or the Son is that animation, it is life, and as we both know Jesus referred to himself as "the life and light of men".

That would mean john the Baptist is Jesus higher self i.e. God the Father, while Mary represents the Feminine aspect of Jesus God self too. And in spiritual terms Gods aspects give birth to the Son, any Son, not just Jesus.

Exactly, I'm glad we're on the same page here!

John baptizing Jesus was the Spirit lowering itself into the feminine waters (womb, body) and out comes life, a.k.a. Jesus. I believe that baptism is a form of sexual innuendo in a way with it symbolizing the divine aspect of conception and child birth. It also represents the spiritual rebirth we must go through in order to find God within us.

What do you know about the Rosicrucianism, specifically the Rose and Cross symbol. It’s seems to me that the cross Represents Jesus/God while the Rose represents Mary the feminine aspect of God. They may also have other coded meanings as well…

I'm not very familiar with the Rosy Cross or the movement behind it, I will have to research it before giving an opinion on it.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The Spirit is compared to both water and wind in the bible, water being feminine and wind being masculine, the Spirit is androgynous in that way. When wind meets water waves are created, animation occurs. Jesus or the Son is that animation, it is life, and as we both know Jesus referred to himself as "the life and light of men".

Yes, I believe so. The Spirit is both male and Female or neutral or androgynous etc…

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Exactly, I'm glad we're on the same page here!

John baptizing Jesus was the Spirit lowering itself into the feminine waters (womb, body) and out comes life, a.k.a. Jesus. I believe that baptism is a form of sexual innuendo in a way with it symbolizing the divine aspect of conception and child birth. It also represents the spiritual rebirth we must go through in order to find God within us.

Yes, I think a lot of these coded symbols if true, are just labels being used to help express the Father/Spirit giving birth to the Son…

Symbolically, poetically even, the female aspect of the Spirit is what is said to give birth to the Son. But I think this is mainly an anthropomorphisation and an expression to help label it. Which is quite natural in a way


Take a look at this…




Just a visual aid to help with my descriptions…

Of course the Father Spirit’s is both Male and Female…

When the Father connects with The Son, The Son is birthed into the Kingdom, i.e. becomes known etc…

When the Son becomes one with the Father the Son becomes a new creation. This is why it is said that the Holy Spirit births you into the Kingdom and makes you a New creation. It’s a new creation because Father and Son have become one. I believe this is why Jesus said that “I and the Father are one…”

The Holy Spirit is what happens in-between when both Father and Son Spirits meet together. The Holy spirit isn’t an actual separate thing that exists though IMO, if that makes sense. But it has been given labels such as Feminine, to help describe it because of course Women give birth to Sons/Daughters etc…

But in reality it’s “as above so below”…”The Father and Son relationship”…the labels are just there to help describe the pieces…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

The Holy Spirit is what happens in-between when both Father and Son Spirits meet together. The Holy spirit isn’t an actual separate thing that exists though IMO, if that makes sense. But it has been given labels such as Feminine, to help describe it because of course Women give birth to Sons/Daughters etc…

The Rosy Cross could symbolize this, though the Father would be on the right (right hand of God) and the Son on the left, the rose or feminine being in the center. The Son is the rebellious left, God the Father is the peaceful right (Mary means rebellious and Salome [another Mary from the gospels] means piece btw).

You can either align with the right side or the left side, Jesus or Paul, Abel or Cain, Jacob or Esau, etc. Be the Son of God or the Son of Man, you can either walk on water in the Spirit seeking eternal truth or sink below the waters in the body chasing temporary pleasure.

The rose is threefold (the Mary's at resurrection) because of the left and right dichotomy of the Father and Son as well, so you have rebellion (Mary) and peace (Salome) and Magdalene who is at the top of the tower (the meaning of Magdalene) we must ascend.

I'm still working on this idea so it is incomplete at the moment.

a reply to: Joecroft

The Herodians were also a highly active political clan/party. What people seems to forget, is that what happens when Jesus quarrels with the Elders, Scribes, Pharicees, Sadducees, Priests and so on, Jesus is battling with different politicians, their political parities and representatives of the government, what Jesus demonstrates is a more strict, though much simpler observation of Torah law, without the Babylonian Talmud's influence, his different opponents would grow steadily tired of the vigilant political dissident Jesus of Nazareth, as they would all be in favor of R. Hillel «The Babylonian».

Also, keep in mind when this whole shambles seems to have happened, around 36 or 37 AD (a very much chaotic year, with many sources mixing up the years and events it seems), during the time of passover when Tiberius Caesar died and Caligula took over. Herod didn't just happen to be in Jerusalem, he was there to release Pilate of his seat and bring him with him back to Rome as Tiberius were now dead. The text also records how after this, Judea would gain or regain full autonomy under the Emperor a few years later, when the Herodians would be given the title King of the Jews and serve as king rather than procurator or prefect, the two offices held by Herod and Pilate would merge into one office-- Rex Judaeorum. The text says Herod and pilate became friends. That's symbolic of their seats becoming one.

The same title that was ironically carved into the epitaph nailed over Jesus at Calvary to warn of what would happen to anyone who'd threatened Rome's authority in the question of exactly who were the true governors of the Empire and Judea. The successor of Herod Antipas, Herod Agrippa was designated King of the Jews by the Emperor, Agrippa also later crowned his son, Agrippa II to be King of the Jews. Agrippa II would be the seventh and last ruler of the Herodian dynasty.

Great research and well written! S/F

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The Rosy Cross could symbolize this, though the Father would be on the right (right hand of God) and the Son on the left, the rose or feminine being in the center. The Son is the rebellious left, God the Father is the peaceful right (Mary means rebellious and Salome [another Mary from the gospels] means piece btw).

I wasn’t aware of Salome meaning “piece”, so thanks for that…

When I drew that image, I wrote it from left to right, which is why I have the Father on the left. If I’d been a Hebrew I would have drawn it correctly from right to left…”right hand of God” from sacred geometry I believe…

Actually speaking of sacred geometry, my diagram has the Holy Spirit as the “Vesica Piscis” which is symbolic of the female birth canal, and is tied in with the Christian Fish symbol. I’m pretty sure that “fisher of men” is a coded phrase. The fisher being the Holy Spirit which catches the Sons, brings them into the Kingdom, into the net, so to speak…

Originally I was going to draw it in “as above so below” style (North to South) with Father above, the Son below and Holy Spirit in the centre.

But anyway, you’re correct the Father should be on the right hand side and Son on the left.

This is a great discussion but we need a thread topic to discuss further elements… maybe we could even paste our discussion so far into the new thread and pretend like nothing ever happened lol It Might just wake a few people up…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I wasn’t aware of Salome meaning “piece”, so thanks for that…

I meant to spell "peace" not "piece" lol, her name derives from the Jewish greeting "shalom". But yeah, this discussion definitely needs its own thread, sorry for derailing this one.

a reply to: Joecroft

And thank you for pointing out the Mother is in the middle not the Son, I've been picturing it as the Son in the middle, your explanation makes a lot of sense in my opinion. I'm enjoying the discussion brother, even if it is a bit off-topic.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
And thank you for pointing out the Mother is in the middle not the Son, I've been picturing it as the Son in the middle, your explanation makes a lot of sense in my opinion. I'm enjoying the discussion brother, even if it is a bit off-topic.

Thanks, but I just had to reply to your last post above. And this may sound like a contradiction, but you’re right to picture the Son in the middle!…. I know…say what lol

Maybe you are thinking about the physical side of things, but I’m only thinking in terms of the spiritual…

The reason you are picturing the Son in the Middle, (other than being completely tuned in lol) is because the Son is what has been given birth too, and now resides in the centre of the diagram.

(Father and Son together = New Son = New Creation)


You see, the Son is/was always there, but it’s only when the Father comes in, and the meeting between the two takes place, that the Son becomes aware of itself; “birthed” is the standard terminology used to describe it…hence the feminisation of the label “Holy Spirit” in some sources.

But there is no unique third entity of a “Holy Spirit” existing, it’s just conceptual…IMO Only the Father and Son are present. The Holy Spirit is termed feminine as a descriptive Label, only because it gives birth to the Son. And Remember Father is spirit, which is both Male and Female…

In my diagram, I have written “Sons Spirit”…which is true but it’s really the Soul of the Son. Soul is Spirit, but it’s just the Lower aspect of the Spirit, if that make sense…

So just to reiterate, in reality, it’s the Father meeting with the Son Spirit/Soul which makes the Son known to himself or herself. This is why I often say “the Father and Son are the Holy Spirit.” It’s really the Father and Son working in unison. Think of my picture further up as an actual Venn diagram.

With the Son now having knowledge of the Father, a New creation is born; it’s a new and improved Son, because he (The Son) now walks with and has knowledge of the Father…

This is also why Jesus said he was one of “two witnesses” because he had both Father and Son working together. It’s also why the Father knows something that the Son doesn’t. Its also why he says, I testify for “myself”, and my other witness is the “Father” etc…There’s no mention of a third witness, only 2.

The verses about “The three that bear witness in heaven” is a misunderstanding that came from men, as is the Trinity doctrine, but it’s an understandable mistake to make… IMO


To bring this slightly back on topic with my OP…

In the book of revelation the “two witnesses” is referring to the same thing I believe. In the story of the “two witnesses” they come to preach Gods word, get killed and then rise up from the dead. It’s all symbolic metaphor describing how the truth get’s suppressed and destroyed, but then rises up again, because that truth is universal, and will never die…

In fact, it could be argued that Jesus is the “two witnesses” that the Book of Revelations was actually referring too, and he is killed for that very same reason i.e. to suppress the real Spiritual truth.

Jesus describes how righteous prophets were being killed by the Teachers of the Law…In Matthew 23

Matthew 23:30-32
And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

And…

Matthew 23:33-34
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

Who are these righteous prophets that the Law makers are getting rid of…most likely the ones who are just like Jesus, who were teaching real spiritual Law/Truth.

I personally believe this is another one of the key reasons why Jesus was murdered, because the Pharisees had become corrupt and were only teaching people the written Law. This helped them keep their power, position and authority over others. They weren’t helping anyone find true “Spiritual Law”, which is why Jesus called them children of Hell.


- JC