Trump to introduce immigration plan, including Amnesty for millions of immigrants.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is why leftists suck so much.

They ask for everyone to "compromise".

And when that happens they criticize/slam the person for compromising.


You can't make this crap up!

If you stand your ground your a bigot/racist etc.
If you try and find common ground your a wobbler with no conviction.

The key is to be the first liberal to the mic to spout your b.s.

a reply to: In4ormant

This is a perfect example of why it is not in anyone's best interest to find "middle ground".

Because if you try, you'll be attacked as being weak.

I think this is more indicative of the left and highlights the maturity of anyone who isn't an authoritarian leftist.

After reading the sourced article, it clearly shows that Trump is willing to listen. The article states that he was mostly taking notes throughout the meeting. He did not declare any changes. All statements related to the headline were given via others bias perspectives, not by anything that Trump or his campaign stated. Trump and his campaign did not flip flop on the immigration issue at this time.

My take from this article is that Trump does seem to have concern regarding this issue and willing to listen to different perspectives to determine the best course of action needed.

a reply to: MrSpad

Well Trump understands that his % current is solid. He can afford to go after other demographics without jeopardizing himself even if that means softening or making concessions to an equal % of that sloppy swing vote. He can also prove what many have been saying......that his base are not really as easily understood as some would have it on issues.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is why leftists suck so much.

They ask for everyone to "compromise".

And when that happens they criticize/slam the person for compromising.

LOL. Thats because it takes away from one sides steam when the other compromises a bit, because when it comes to compromise a bit goes a long way.

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
*HOAX!

Trump campaign says it is false, click-bait journalism.

mobile.twitter.com...

The Trump campaign has your number my friend. It looks like Donald Trump is going to try to shift positions drastically while pretending that he is really just putting a finer point on policy he's had all along.

Notice that what the tweet says is not that Trump won't be announcing amnesty but rather:

1. "The substance of the article contradicts the false headline"
2. "Mr. Trump said nothing today that he hasn't said many times before, including in his convention speech"

In other words, the substance of the article is not being refuted but the title is being called sensational because the new lie is that Trump has been talking amnesty all along. This is demonstrably false. The full text of Trump's convention speech is here. Nowhere does he talk about a path to citizenship and the only mention of amnesty is this:

Yet Hillary Clinton is proposing mass amnesty, mass immigration, and mass lawlessness. Her plan will overwhelm your schools and hospitals, further reduce your jobs and wages, and make it harder for recent immigrants to escape from poverty.

So in Trump doubletalk land, the fact that he said that Clinton is proposing "mass amnesty" means that he can claim that he's always been for amnesty (but not "mass amnesty") even though he didn't say that he was.

This isn't quite as shocking as it might otherwise be if Trump hadn't already started his about-face at the end of June. Let's look at the timeline here:

September on 60 Minutes Trump said this:

Trump: "If they've done well, they're going out and they're coming back in legally. Because you said it--"
Pelley: "You're rounding them all up?"
Trump: "We're rounding 'em up in a very humane way, in a very nice way. And they're going to be happy because they want to be legalized. And, by the way, I know it doesn't sound nice. But not everything is nice."

In February, Trump reiterated the same thing during the CNN/Telemundo debate:

"We have at least 11 million people in this country that came in illegally," he continued. "They will go out. They will come back -- some will come back, the best, through a process. They have to come back legally. They have to come back through a process, and it may not be a very quick process, but I think that's very fair, and very fine. They're going to get in line with other people."

(source for quotes)

It was June 25th specifically that he Trump first signaled that he was about to flip-flop epically. From Daily Caller - Trump Has A Confusing Saturday On Immigration Policy:

“President Obama has mass deported vast numbers of people — the most ever, and it’s never reported. I think people are going to find that I have not only the best policies, but I will have the biggest heart of anybody,” Trump said to Bloomberg in an interview.

When asked by Bloomberg whether he would have “mass deportations,” Trump said, “No, I would not call it mass deportations.” This led to articles such as one from The Hill titled, “Trump shifts immigration plan: No ‘mass deportations.'”

Well, he wouldn't "call it" mass deportation. What he's doing is deliberately not giving a straight answer and instead, giving one that leaves him open to later interpreting himself as having said either of two wholly contradictory things just by saying that he wouldn't "call it" mass deportation.

Of course that's all irrelevant because if you take the view that on June 25th he said he wasn't planning on conducting mass deportations, then he did a 180 then rather than now. What's clear is that up until then, he was still sticking to mass deportation.

In this case, it's even more egregious than the run-of-the-mill flip-flop because it's been a cornerstone of his campaign all along. This is more like a straight up bait-and-switch.

As some posts in this thread prove, it won't matter to some of his ardent supporters who don't really care what his positions are (they just know that they must be great!) but it's a gamble imo. It's not that he's risking losing voters who were in love with mass deportation because they'll still assume that Trump is more in line with their immigration policy than Hillary regardless of whether it's true or not because you can't really compare them given Trump's ever shifting vagueries, non-answers and conflicting statements. Not that Hillary isn't a flip flopper but it's pretty much assured in this cse that her immigration policy will be in line with Obama's — path to citizenship, focus on deporting criminals.

His problem is that it's a real whopper of a flip-flop to try to pass off and he stands to get beat up in interviews/debates and lose support from people who can't maintain the delusion that he is an actual "straight talker" just because he's not self-conscious about saying offensive things. At the same time he's not likely to persuade anyone that is anti-Trump because of his immigration rhetoric. Essentially for this gamble to pay off, the number of moderates that he picks up who didn't support him because of his stance on mass deportation has to be a greater number than those who supported him because of it plus the number of aforementioned disillusioned supporters.

No matter how you slice and dice it, there's really no way that his policy could be the exact opposite of Hillary's (Obama's) as he claimed in the convention speech without the mass deportations he'd been promising all along (and defending the logisitics of).

a reply to: DBCowboy
Right, because when Obama tried to negotiate with nations rather than bomb them into yet another power vacuum, he wasn't called weak by the entire right wing assembly, who then didn't flock to worship Putin as a "strong leader". Reality is calling.

This is so funny

Article comes out saying Trump goes completely opposite of ehat ues been saying all along..

His supporters praise him


Article turns out to be false...

Supporters praise him


I mean seriously, that just goesnto show you how screwed we are as a populus.

People care more about the person than the issues. Thats insane.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
Already the Hillary lap-dogs are foaming at the mouth. Nothing has been announced, nobody even knows what's included in the "plan" if there is one, but there's a mention of possibly Trump allowing amnesty for some. I agree with the other posters who say that if anything it's probably to allow LAW ABIDING families, meaning those who aren't running drugs, committing violence, etc., to gain a pathway to remain if they can be properly vetted and maybe even learn to speak English ?!?

That would dovetail seamlessly with Donald Trump's message from the beginning. The people who call him racist are totally ignorant about the issues and about the man himself. They are too busy being brainwashed by the mainstream media and being used as tools by the Globalists.

I can't imagine anybody with common sense Not voting for Donald Trump.

No that would the same platform that has been in place for all Presidents since Reagan all the way through Obama. The very policy that Trump has made the cornerstone of his campaign opposing. Frankly I do not buy it. It would make his base lose it mind that he was basically saying Clinton has the right idea forget all that stuff I said before. And it will just come off as pandering to Latinos who would see it as a desperate move by a floundering campaign. The again who knows he could just deny he ever said anything about building a wall. He does that stuff all the time. He thinks people are idiots an unable to find his exact words from before. Maybe he does not know about Google.

Well today I watched his rally in Virginia and he said today that Yes We are building the wall and Yes Mexico is going to pay for it. Trump can soften a little about allowing Mexicans who are already here and trying to better themselves. Come January people will still come in but they will do so legally. The wall is going to be built and anyone who wants to come in will do it legally. We have borders for a reason. Or maybe we should just erase the border, huh?

Considering that most illegals come in by plane with visas a wall is not only a waste of money but, just plain stupid. And Congress will never fund it. So we know the wall will never exist. Not to mention you can go over it or dig under it like the do the current fences. It is kind of like an idea a 9 year old would come up being clueless about the reality of it. I sure hope nobody in Mexico knows they could just go to the coast and hire a boat to sail them to the coast instead of paying to cross the land border. So of course we know the wall is a boondoggle that will never exist. Trump knows it and would just say well I wanted to build it but, Congress would pay for it. And of course Mexico will not pay for it, I do not think even Trumps most naive supporters believe that.

This entire thing is Trump testing the waters to see if he can do a reverse on immigration. Leak a policy change, deny it then today his people are saying TBD. As in we are waiting for some internal polling to see if a change would effect the people Trump needs to win over to get elected and how upset his base will be. Desperate times call for desperate measure, Trumps know his only chance is to throw out his entire platform and pivot. He knows it, said he would not do it and now is.

Considering that most illegals come in by plane with visas

Doesn't seem to be true...

As much as 45% of the total unauthorized migrant population entered the country with visas that allowed them to visit or reside in the U.S. for a limited amount of time. Known as “overstayers,” these migrants became part of the unauthorized population when they remained in the country after their visas had expired.

Another smaller share of the unauthorized migrant population entered the country legally from Mexico using a Border Crossing Card, a document that allows short visits limited to the border region, and then violated the terms of admission.

The rest of the unauthorized migrant population, somewhat more than half, entered the country illegally. Some evaded customs and immigration inspectors at ports of entry by hiding in vehicles such as cargo trucks. Others trekked through the Arizona desert, waded across the Rio Grande or otherwise eluded the U.S. Border Patrol which has jurisdiction over all the land areas away from the ports of entry on the borders with Mexico and Canada.

url=http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/]Link[/url]

originally posted by: carewemust
I don't know why Black and Latinos are against Donald Trump. The Democratic party makes them (particularly African Americans) dependent on hand-outs. Trump enterprises employs and pays thousands of minorities. But that's a subject for another thread...

Tell you what, create an alternative to handouts and we'll talk. But until then, why should someone vote against their own self interest of staying fed and have a roof over their heads?

Basically... you're either going to hand out jobs or cash, and those jobs need to be better than minimum wage. Until you can start handing them out to people, people are going to go for the small amount of cash they can get.

Trump’s big trauma lately is what he always depended on: the polls.


They have gone against him so much lately that he is bending all his early postures


So much for sincerity.

Now the Trump freaks will say how wonderful it is that he can adjust his policies even though everything they liked him for earlier he’s scuttled.


You’ve been conned Trump supporters and now you’re on a amusement park ride going up and down, up and down, and up and down following not Donald Trump but the polls

...up and down, up and down you go where he stops nobody knows
...but the pollsters

originally posted by: MrSpad
No that would the same platform that has been in place for all Presidents since Reagan all the way through Obama. The very policy that Trump has made the cornerstone of his campaign opposing. Frankly I do not buy it. It would make his base lose it mind that he was basically saying Clinton has the right idea forget all that stuff I said before. And it will just come off as pandering to Latinos who would see it as a desperate move by a floundering campaign. The again who knows he could just deny he ever said anything about building a wall. He does that stuff all the time. He thinks people are idiots an unable to find his exact words from before. Maybe he does not know about Google.

Don't forget his followers here who support him that have also backtracked on the wall, saying that what we need is more of a virtual fence and border patrol rather than the actual wall he ran on.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
After reading the sourced article, it clearly shows that Trump is willing to listen. The article states that he was mostly taking notes throughout the meeting. He did not declare any changes. All statements related to the headline were given via others bias perspectives, not by anything that Trump or his campaign stated. Trump and his campaign did not flip flop on the immigration issue at this time.

My take from this article is that Trump does seem to have concern regarding this issue and willing to listen to different perspectives to determine the best course of action needed.

His people are playing the To Be Determined card today. This is just a test balloon to see how it polls. The problem with it is, it comes at a time when he is crashing in the polls thus comes off as nothing but, a desperate attempt to save his campaign. This is the sort of thing he should have introduced at his convention when his polling was at its best. Then it would like he was considering the issue. Instead he is losing everywhere and suddenly he is ready to change one the biggest keys to his campaign.

a reply to: carewemust

Trump enterprises employee thousands..in China and Turkey and ....


And I'll tell you again African Americans are not all getting handouts.
That's just plain ignorant.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is why leftists suck so much.

They ask for everyone to "compromise".

And when that happens they criticize/slam the person for compromising.


You can't make this crap up!

Great. In addition to this "compromise", if Trump will "compromise" on not building the wall, and "compromise" on common sense gun regulations, and "compromise" on nominating a moderate for the Supreme Court, and "compromise" on building a universal healthcare system, and "compromise" on free public university tuition for those who qualify, I might actually vote for him! See, I don't suck so bad...

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Thank you..

Our annual trade deficit with Mexico is about 6 Billion Dollars. (2015 report from census.gov) In that light, it's entirely possible for Mexico to pay for the wall. And yes the wall is going to be built.
Our companies are moving to Mexico. Cheap labor and less regulation. Ask the former employees of Carrier Air Conditioning how they feel about it. Meanwhile illegals are flooding across the border. Not just coming in by planes. Mexican illegals come across the border by land. The Border Patrol supports Trump. The Border Patrol says we need a wall. We have sanctuary cities that give free aid, food stamps, and government benefits which puts a drain on our system. We have a 20 Trillion Dollar national debt. What are we going to leave our grandchildren with? As it is, the economy could collapse any day. And we keep bending over to other countries and taking it. It's time to put an end to sanctuary cities, time to allow Legal immigration and a path to citizenship. Not an automatic handout if you can swim across the Rio Grande.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
Already the Hillary lap-dogs are foaming at the mouth. Nothing has been announced, nobody even knows what's included in the "plan" if there is one, but there's a mention of possibly Trump allowing amnesty for some. I agree with the other posters who say that if anything it's probably to allow LAW ABIDING families, meaning those who aren't running drugs, committing violence, etc., to gain a pathway to remain if they can be properly vetted and maybe even learn to speak English ?!?

That would dovetail seamlessly with Donald Trump's message from the beginning. The people who call him racist are totally ignorant about the issues and about the man himself. They are too busy being brainwashed by the mainstream media and being used as tools by the Globalists.

I can't imagine anybody with common sense Not voting for Donald Trump.

No that would the same platform that has been in place for all Presidents since Reagan all the way through Obama. The very policy that Trump has made the cornerstone of his campaign opposing. Frankly I do not buy it. It would make his base lose it mind that he was basically saying Clinton has the right idea forget all that stuff I said before. And it will just come off as pandering to Latinos who would see it as a desperate move by a floundering campaign. The again who knows he could just deny he ever said anything about building a wall. He does that stuff all the time. He thinks people are idiots an unable to find his exact words from before. Maybe he does not know about Google.

Well today I watched his rally in Virginia and he said today that Yes We are building the wall and Yes Mexico is going to pay for it. Trump can soften a little about allowing Mexicans who are already here and trying to better themselves. Come January people will still come in but they will do so legally. The wall is going to be built and anyone who wants to come in will do it legally. We have borders for a reason. Or maybe we should just erase the border, huh?

Considering that most illegals come in by plane with visas a wall is not only a waste of money but, just plain stupid. And Congress will never fund it. So we know the wall will never exist. Not to mention you can go over it or dig under it like the do the current fences. It is kind of like an idea a 9 year old would come up being clueless about the reality of it. I sure hope nobody in Mexico knows they could just go to the coast and hire a boat to sail them to the coast instead of paying to cross the land border. So of course we know the wall is a boondoggle that will never exist. Trump knows it and would just say well I wanted to build it but, Congress would pay for it. And of course Mexico will not pay for it, I do not think even Trumps most naive supporters believe that.

This entire thing is Trump testing the waters to see if he can do a reverse on immigration. Leak a policy change, deny it then today his people are saying TBD. As in we are waiting for some internal polling to see if a change would effect the people Trump needs to win over to get elected and how upset his base will be. Desperate times call for desperate measure, Trumps know his only chance is to throw out his entire platform and pivot. He knows it, said he would not do it and now is.

Our annual trade deficit with Mexico is about 6 Billion Dollars. (2015 report from census.gov) In that light, it's entirely possible for Mexico to pay for the wall. And yes the wall is going to be built.
Our companies are moving to Mexico. Cheap labor and less regulation. Ask the former employees of Carrier Air Conditioning how they feel about it. Meanwhile illegals are flooding across the border. Not just coming in by planes. Mexican illegals come across the border by land. The Border Patrol supports Trump. The Border Patrol says we need a wall. We have sanctuary cities that give free aid, food stamps, and government benefits which puts a drain on our system. We have a 20 Trillion Dollar national debt. What are we going to leave our grandchildren with? As it is, the economy could collapse any day. And we keep bending over to other countries and taking it. It's time to put an end to sanctuary cities, time to allow Legal immigration and a path to citizenship. Not an automatic handout if you can swim across the Rio Grande.

Trump shills should get a bonus if they can somehow spin his recurring 180s on stances. It must be a tough job for them not knowing which stance they are supposed to take. lol