Alien Life Is Now (Almost) Impossible to Deny

We must differentiate between worlds where life arises on it's own and worlds that are sterile / without higher life where humans can survive or geo-engineer to an acceptable form. Those are 2 very different things. I would put their ratio between 100 and 1000 : 1.

Our "Example of One" cuts both ways. Is it obvious that bilateral intelligent life based on carbon and breathing O2 will arise under the correct circumstances? Since we ARE the one example, wouldn't be make sense in a bell-curve kind of way that other intelligent life must wear silver jumpsuits and shave their heads like humans? I doubt they watch sports, but maybe they wife-swap...it's a genetic advantage!

On the other hand, maybe humans are the outliers. Other ET may just be a pulsating wet blob like bodysnatchers or more like hornets or the Borg or something.

My best guess is more like Vulcan, an independent society where the individual is dependent on the system. It would have less variance, like Earth where there are homeless, ultra rich, scientists and manual workers. More of an elite society where "management" of robots replaces actual hard labor.

I say to think of what would be the most successful model that is also altruistic, and there is what you might encounter in the galaxy.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Since we ARE the one example, wouldn't be make sense in a bell-curve kind of way that other intelligent life must wear silver jumpsuits and shave their heads like humans?

Can you think of any real world example where you have exactly one occurrence of something and you are able to come up with a Bell curve distribution from that single occurrence?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
[You get a value based on some assumptions. So your result is not a fact. The only real number we have to work with is zero.

You mean 1, not zero, since we know that in this galaxy, at least one was produced.

a reply to: searcherfortruth

Mathematically and probability are the same things used in poker, there is a royal flush in the deck somewhere, but until you see it.

The Royal Flush is a mathematical certainty. We know exactly what all the outcomes are in poker because we know exactly what is in the deck.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
[You get a value based on some assumptions. So your result is not a fact. The only real number we have to work with is zero.

You mean 1, not zero, since we know that in this galaxy, at least one was produced.

It depends. Life existing is a certainty simply because we exist. But if we are looking for occurrences outside of us, its zero. My response was in reference to the drake equation and I don't think our existence is part of that equation.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Well zero is a number of zero probability, so given our reality, I think it's fair to assume, given the total number of stars and galaxies that it's greater than zero, the probability curve.

If you mean a world that's identical to our own in just about every way, then i'd almost be inclined to agree, almost, but we are talking about trillions of planets, so there's bound to be another.

What I guess you're saying is that it's just pure speculation, nothing more, and an assumption until we have more data as to the range of configurations that could produce a somewhat earth-like world.

If life is more than an accidental artifact, but resides at the leading most edge of some sort of cosmological arrow of evolutionary development, as if the byproduct and pursuit of the whole process (not just random), then the odds would increase dramatically, but it's still just a guess..

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

What I guess you're saying is that it's just pure speculation, nothing more, and an assumption until we have more data as to the range of configurations that could produce a somewhat earth-like world.

I really haven't said much but the reality is that its impossible to put any meaningful value on the probability of life existing elsewhere when there is only one occurrence.

Well zero is a number of zero probability, so given our reality, I think it's fair to assume, given the total number of stars and galaxies that it's greater than zero, the probability curve.

If you mean a world that's identical to our own in just about every way, then i'd almost be inclined to agree, almost, but we are talking about trillions of planets, so there's bound to be another.

If you want to use statistics then what you need are samples and occurrences. There is no magic number of planets where we can say something like "after 3 trillion, life is a statistical certainty" or something like that. I agree that its hard to imagine that it would be the case that life doesn't exist out there but that's not math, that's me not being able to imagine something.

so I don't think math helps solve the problem in any way but I do think that we have more than pure speculation to draw from....its more like an innate knowledge but that's a personal belief.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I tend to think that life is a statistical certainty but death is also another certainty

intelligent life in our universe probably does exist but only for a fleeting moment and by fleeting on universal scale we are talking at least 1 million years

life probably is everywhere in the universe but at different stages of development/evolution
and intelligent life is certain to wipe itself out or evolve to the point where it cannot be recognised the way we humans want it to be!

its just our unfortunate luck we have yet to find a level of intelligent life or life at all yet

like I said though there are definitely alien things we can explore without physically travelling

communication with an alien race will not happen verbally thats for sure!

altering our consciousness is a a sure fire way of communicating , our brains and our own language are only developed based on that one ! we just have ourselves to communicate with we have just enough consciousness to communicate as a species.
We can only communicate with out peers of the same species under atmospheric conditions etc.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I tend to think that life is a statistical certainty but death is also another certainty

I like to think my life is a certainty.

like I said though there are definitely alien things we can explore without physically travelling

communication with an alien race will not happen verbally thats for sure!

altering our consciousness is a a sure fire way of communicating , our brains and our own language are only developed based on that one ! we just have ourselves to communicate with we have just enough consciousness to communicate as a species.
We can only communicate with out peers of the same species under atmospheric conditions etc.

Yeah I think that's a whole different topic. It would be fun to explore but we cant do it justice here unfortunately.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

hehe how can you be 100% certain that you or anyone else is actually alive ?

I guess you cant

anyways , there must be a way we can discuss those things without breaching T's n C's

There must be life elsewhere though, seems unlikely for there not to be

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
[You get a value based on some assumptions. So your result is not a fact. The only real number we have to work with is zero.

You mean 1, not zero, since we know that in this galaxy, at least one was produced.

Zero, since life on Earth is not alien. So when discussing alien life, it has been found on zero worlds.

If someone says life has never been found elsewhere so it CAN'T exist and you think to yourself that is a false argument ... remember someone saying the universe is big so it MUST exist is likewise a false argument.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I tend to think that life is a statistical certainty but death is also another certainty

intelligent life in our universe probably does exist but only for a fleeting moment and by fleeting on universal scale we are talking at least 1 million years

life probably is everywhere in the universe but at different stages of development/evolution
and intelligent life is certain to wipe itself out or evolve to the point where it cannot be recognised the way we humans want it to be!

its just our unfortunate luck we have yet to find a level of intelligent life or life at all yet

like I said though there are definitely alien things we can explore without physically travelling

communication with an alien race will not happen verbally thats for sure!

altering our consciousness is a a sure fire way of communicating , our brains and our own language are only developed based on that one ! we just have ourselves to communicate with we have just enough consciousness to communicate as a species.
We can only communicate with out peers of the same species under atmospheric conditions etc.

Going back a few pages of this thread to what we spoke of before in terms of communicating without words and likely without spaceships... but instead with psychedelics and our minds (it isn't erased, clearly haven't violated T&C's...yet).

My thoughts are a bit complex, so I'll do my best to keep it simple and not screw it all up. Please do correct me where anyone finds error. Also, I am expressing my interpretation of a theory espoused by the late Terrence McKenna. I truly believe he's on to something in regards to extraterrestrial contact through, specifically, psilocybin.

So, psilocybin is chemically spelled out as O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. That's to say there is a phosphorous group substituted at the 4 position of the molecule. As far as anyone can tell, this is the ONLY 4-phosphorylated indole on this planet!!!!!!!!

If we were searching for extraterrestrial evidence in the biology of Earth, you would look for molecules that are unique, that don’t have near relatives spread through other lifeforms on Earth. Psilocybin seems to be a perfect example of this. It is the ONLY 4-phosphorylated indole known to occur in nature! And as far as I can tell nature doesn’t work like that. Nature builds on itself. It would have relatives, but it does not.To me this is peculiar and at the molecular level this substance looks to me like an alien artifact – at the molecular level.

And it's not just any molecule. It's one which literally flips a switch in our brains and allows us to not only explore within, but hyperdimensionally as well, under enough influence from this molecule.

To me this screams extraterrestrial!

Who's to say that life didn't get here via meteor? Or who's to say that this molecule didn't arrive via meteor, thus being a catalyst for human development and evolution to who we are today? Perhaps it was random...but it seems not to be in my mind. Especially considering the effects of this molecule on specifically the human mind.

Consider how we look for extraterrestrial life. We scan the sky with radio telescopes and when anything peaks our interest, we send a probe. I'm sure it's much more complex than that, but I'm trying to keep this simple.

Could it be possible that this molecule was sent via probe (meteor)...to interact with the right kind of biology, in turn get it to do as we humans now do...send out signals, probes...call home so to speak. Without realizing we are in fact phoning it home.

Anthropologically speaking there is roughly a 40,000 year gap in the development of the human brain. Could the introduction of such a molecule in our ancestors diets be the missing link that has brought humanity to this point of consciousness, connectivity and technological novelty? Is it possible that IF there is extraterrestrial life out there they too could have sent a probe to essentially...call home...just not in the sense that we would imagine ourselves doing it? Take for instance, me a human, 40000 years later typing this on a cellphone to interact with a vast global network of other humans who contemplate the reality we see in a search for other life in our universe. This type of communication has developed alongside a very complex and compelling space program. But for those of us who have taken a"heroic dose"...the space program is almost meaningless as we have essentially made contact...and not with your typical humanoid greys either.

The point...that perhaps interstellar travel may not be possible in physical form, for any entity, only psychological travel is possible. Perhaps alien life knew this and thus sent this substance to earth as a way to communicate with the life here that eventually would, and has, developed consciousness awareness.

BTW, I do not advocate for the recreational use of this substance, as relatively harmless as it may be. I have a great respect for it's power and I think it should be studied and used by people who understand what it can do and how it can be used. That said, it's D50 is VERY high and it is physically impossible to OD on, as one would need to consume their body weight in it to have that effect. Also, it's impossible to become addicted to. I would consider heavy use of this substance to be upwards of 2-3 times a year.

I hope that this can be part of this extraterrestrial conversation and not considered taboo/ violation of T&C's. I understand that there is a limit on this topic for good reason, but I do believe that I have presented a reasonable argument to keep the topic of this substance in this forum. To completely disregard it as "illegal" would be to literally put the blinders on and really, what the hell would be the point of this site anymore?