I ask you to vote anyway except Clinton.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'll make you a deal. I won't vote for Clinton if you won't vote for Trump.

Now that's a plan. If only America would made this pact.

a reply to: Sillyolme

I'm sure his wife and kids love him. Probably not much more beyond that. I believe the people you refer to simply love the "D" by his name.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I shouldn't be, but I am. We no longer operate under the concept of Manifest Destiny.

I figured the population would have figured out the problem with this by now. But I guess not.

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
a reply to: tadaman

Economically or militarily, the Effing up of poor people for trickle down "free money".

dosent she want to hike taxes on the rich?
'trickle down' was reaganomics, which both bushes used, by the looks of it trump.
it never worked for the other three, recessions and housing collapses followed, short memory?

We will be stuck in another Vietnam,

the republicans got the us military into iraq and afghanistan, do you have some form of mandela effect where dukakis and kerry started these conflicts, or again some short memory, or some terrible revisionist theory?

Your kids will too. Try telling them about championing gay rights and bathroom issues when they ask you why you voted for the person that started WW3.

so now world war three will start under hillary, who against exactly?

Really, why not vote based on the issues, and not based on sentiment, since the sentiment is HATE. Not something positive and constructive?

your sentiments are based on fear, trump demonized a religion, is that not hate?
as i pointed out, your issues are wrong.

maybe stop paying lip service to alex jones types that have claimed world wars are around the corner whenever a democrat is in office, get educated on transgender and transexual, its apparent you don't understand, at all.
look into all the parties policies, democrats using reaganomics is laughable.
then maybe start a thread with more objectionable arguments rather than fallacies and revisionism.

From what I understand she wants to tax the rich, but her definition of 'rich' is anyone who makes 6 figures, and these days, 100K in a family of 4 or so, it's not very easy to get ahead, with the rocketing food prices that no one ever talks about, and rents and school costs. When I was making 6 figures in the late 80s, I was in hog heaven. But that SAME salary today and I have not been able to save much. Now, I realize that lots of people are worse off these days, but again, her version of 'rich' is troubling, because it includes the middle-class.

Also, the really BIG mistake is raising taxes on corporations, which she keeps harping on, showing her complete ignorance of economics. First of all, the USA corporate tax rate is already among the highest in the world. And the problem is NOT the tax rate...it's all the freaking loopholes available for multi-nationals to offshore various operations and hide the revenues 'legally' from the gov't.

Trump has it right. Lower the tax rate, simplify the code by closing all the loopholes. He could improve that by giving penalties to corps that manufacture overseas (or the opposite which would be offer rewards to companies that manufacture here in the USA). When I majored in economics in college, it was NEVER discussed what the wealth effects and NATIONAL effects would be of 'free trade'. And the fact is, that in the interests of national security, there are non-direct economic and monetary benefits to having a base level of manufacturing ability in your own country.

What's truly scary is that many of the weapons contracted by the DOD are freaking manufactured in OTHER COUNTRIES! So, for instance, missile parts in China. Because the ability to manufacture certain things is no longer even AVAILABLE in the US! That's completely unacceptable. Of course, it would be better if we just banned making ALL weapons, and used that money to create free energy and rebuild infrastructure and take care of people who can't take care of themselves, but...

a reply to: Aazadan

Nah, it's still Manifest Destiny, just without giving statehood to the controlled regions. Our govts from the left and right simply tweaked the pretexts they use to interfere in other countries and control their resources. Now it's the "Drug War" in Latin America (which replaced the Banana Wars), the threat of a Russian invasion in Europe, "containing China" in East Asia, and the "War on Terror" in the Middle East, East Africa, and Central Asia.

While our militaries and defense contractors are supposedly in those regions for the reasons I just listed, they're also conveniently protecting our corporations & business partners who are exploiting the resources in those regions.

a reply to: nomoredemsorreps

100k in a family today is more than double the median family income. If you're bringing in over 45k combined these days you're doing pretty well.

Or you could always take the conservative approach. You chose to have kids you can't afford... deal with it.

originally posted by: buster2010
If you really listen to him he wants to turn our military into a mercenary force.

That's quite the statement...
Got any sources or quotes from the man himself to prove this?

Did you actually watch his speech about national security?
What I took from it was he wanted to make the military stronger by getting rid of our international bases and have a more consolidated(stronger) military. Not sure how you all misconstrued his words. Unless... You never actually watched his speech and you're just parroting what the media force fed you.

Either way you're wrong...

I'll vote as soon as I see somebody I consider worth voting for. As in somebody whose policies I mostly agree with, who also has reasonable plans on how to fund them, and isn't obviously corrupt.

So, yeah, it'll probably be a while.

originally posted by: tadaman
So,

I keep hearing how Trump is going to send us to war...even though thats exactly against what his platform stands for. Its a light international footprint, with more asked of the world to fix its own problems.

This is what bothers me about trump, he plays both sides of every issue, and leaves it up to people to project toward what ever sounds good. He's also the man who calls us weak and soft. We don't do enough on anything in his mind. We need to bomb the # out of people, take their resources, kill their families, torture them with out mercy, and possibly nuke them, but he's an isolationist. We can't judge Trump based on some Utopian Idea of what he can pull off, he doesn't have that power. We have issues that currently exist that must be handled, is he the man to handle them? I say no.

Scariest of all is that fact that Trump thinks he can keep everyone safe. There is nothing that create authoritarians like the need for safety. Even Plato discusses it, it has always been true. In a time when people demand safety we better be damn careful to avoid putting a person of questionable character in power.

Everyone here agrees we've been very aggressive in our foreign policy. We like to topple dictators, and play chess with the world. It's undeniable. But instead of seeing that and acknowledging that it is not working, and is probably immoral, we decide we want Donald Trump to double down on all of it 100 times harder to keep us safe, cause "we aren't weak and PC". This is cognitive dissonance. it's scary to watch. We want him to go in harder on a problem we all feel red flags about.

You know, here's my dilemma....

1. I don't trust anyone who wants to be supreme ruler for 4-8 years. I don't care who they are, what they say, what they've said or even what they've done. Every single one of those factors is in the past and the only thing you can be reasonably certain of with a politician is that they're more than likely lying about something (probably a lot of things).

2. It seems like I'm always in the minority. I have learned to distrust public opinion. If everyone seems to hate Hillary either she's running a brilliantly diabolical campaign intended to push people in another direction or somebody up there really hates her. Which isn't too hard to believe as relentlessly as they hounded Bill Clinton when he was in office.

3. As sad as it is, that's almost a good sign in American politics. Whomever the establishment and most of the MSM hates is probably the lesser of the two evils (even if you can't see it any other way)

I agree with the OP, with Clinotn those on ATS should know by now exactly what they will lose, with Trump we don't know right now what we will gain or lose. Like a democratic protester said at the DNC, "I am more concerned about somebody who has done evil, than somebody that is predicted to do evil in the future."

And so although directed at African Americans, it could be said to all Americans at this point.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: tadaman

I keep hearing how Trump is going to send us to war...even though thats exactly against what his platform stands for. Its a light international footprint, with more asked of the world to fix its own problems.

If he's not going to war then why a bigger military? If you really listen to him he wants to turn our military into a mercenary force.

She has advocated for most military action most were opposed to. She has openly asked to arm Syrian rebels (ISIS), pushed to put boots on the ground there. Pushed for Libya and all other current hot zones. She is a hawk of the old school "bombs and bricks" mentality.

You are right it will be different under her than it is now. I'm surprised the old school GOP like McCain and O'Connell isn't campaigning for her.

You cant say that you would rather a Robin hood in office, since she is only Robbing hoods for corporate profit. Her gifting is directly linked to the suffering and missery of third world nations....and its not going to the little guy.

Check into Trump's background he's nothing but a con man himself.

A globalist, Hawk, corporate shill and proven liar is better than a non politician asking for LEGAL imigration, non intervention, the end of free trade and private profit with public subsidy?

Oh please he is clueless when it comes to immigration. There are treaties he would have to break and the only profit he's talking about is for the rich.

Cool! I can handle this one quickly.

Deterrant.
Worthless comment.
Your opinion...not mine.
Wrong.

Wow...that was simple.

How is the below Trump quote in any way a sign that he is not for more war? He is saying he wants to carpet bomb the Middle East.



Around 2 minutes and 50 seconds into this below video a discussion on torture starts and Trump intimates he wants U.S. soldiers to behead Muslim prisoners of war.



I don't know where anybody can claim Donald Trump would be less prone to war than Hillary Clinton. In his own words the man sounds like he wants to create war crime after war crime. Possibly genocide.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Nope I'm voting for Hillary.
Trumps a loser. I don't like losers. I like people who win.
Hillary is a winner.

I trust Hillary far more then I trust Trump.

3rd party? No chance of winning. Not logical.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I agree with the OP, with Clinotn those on ATS should know by now exactly what they will lose, with Trump we don't know right now what we will gain or lose. Like a democratic protester said at the DNC, "I am more concerned about somebody who has done evil, than somebody that is predicted to do evil in the future."

And so although directed at African Americans, it could be said to all Americans at this point.

Every syllable out of his mouth is a lie. Do you want and need to be lied to?

Lying liar can't stop lying

I didn't vote for her 2008 and I will NOT be voting for her in 2016. I deliver mail and I've been seeing the ads the Dems have been putting out and man oh man are they side splittingly hilarious.

originally posted by: rollanotherone
I didn't vote for her 2008 and I will NOT be voting for her in 2016. I deliver mail and I've been seeing the ads the Dems have been putting out and man oh man are they side splittingly hilarious.

Am I really reading this crap?

Political mailers are somehow ridiculous one side, but not the other.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: CynConcepts

I keep hearing people say that Trump showed great character by admitting he was wrong or regrets his words. But tell me this, which policy proposals did he say he'd change because of his newfound "regret"? Did he even say specifically what things he "regrets" saying?

What's wrong with his policies?

If you think something is morally/ethically wrong with them, you are misunderstanding.

Clearly wearing blinders...

originally posted by: kazanoom

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I agree with the OP, with Clinotn those on ATS should know by now exactly what they will lose, with Trump we don't know right now what we will gain or lose. Like a democratic protester said at the DNC, "I am more concerned about somebody who has done evil, than somebody that is predicted to do evil in the future."

And so although directed at African Americans, it could be said to all Americans at this point.

Every syllable out of his mouth is a lie. Do you want and need to be lied to?

Lying liar can't stop lying

It's easy to call someone a liar. Is that all you've got?

I definitely don't want or need to be lied to and I will most certainly not be voting for one of the greatest liars in current world politics.

Hillary and Kim Jong Un are probably buddies and can't wait to have a tea party and chat about all the little games they've played