Why don't christians follow the laws of Leviticus and kill homosexuals, adulterers, etc.?

a reply to: enterthestage

I know what it means (obvious as I would not know the root of the word and not its definition) so your not telling me anything I don't know but likely are trying to save face as someone who just unwillingly learned something from someone who you don't want to learn anything from, a non Christian.

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: enterthestage

Neither.

I don't agree with homosexuality. But in this day I am not commanded to kill them or adulterers.

No...you are told by Jesus (and by His example) to LOVE them.
Kinda flies in the face of Leviticus...doesn't it?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

Yea, if you're going by all those apologetic teacher's who use that definition. Dude, can you seriously NOT think for yourself???
Talking to fundie's is like talking to the stepford wives of god. Jeesh.

Disclaimer: I do not judge, and I do not try to persuade others to my faith. And I do not agree with all Christians re: sexuality and gender identity. I'm a very liberal person. Faith is a free choice. My faith is my own choice, nothing more, and it only recently came into my life. Moreover, my profound and crippling social anxiety disorder, which I now call my "thorn of the flesh," makes it exceeding difficulty to comfortably talk about my faith publicly, even behind the anonymity of the internet. So please forgive the infrequency with which I can summon to courage to say even what I am about to. And please forgive any distaste that results from it. My intent is as always only civility and mutual respect. That has not changed with my finding faith.

With that out of the way...

My response to this question would be: Christ forgave murderers (St Paul, and even his own crucifiers; "Father forgive them for they know not what they do.") Do those who condemn others believe those they condemn are greater sinners than those people? Christ taught us not to condemn the splinter in our brothers' and sisters' eyes before attending to the plank in our own. Have those condemning others truly examined their own consciences and found themselves blameless before God such that they are justified in condemning anyone else, for any sin? I know I'm not blameless enough before my God to do so. Christ taught to love our enemies, bless those who curse us, and pray for those who would do harm to us. Can those who condemn others truly, honestly, look into their hearts and say they feel true, profound LOVE for those they condemn? Or is there something else, which they call love in order to justify it? Are the feelings tender and warm and selfless as love feels? Or harsh and angry and bitter?

Finally, the various laws of the bible all take place under different covenants. The most recent and last being the covenant of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. Christ in multiple instances in scripture says to obey the priests because they are given authority under the law, but not to follow their example necessarily (presumably depending on the individual priest in question,) "for they preach, but do not practice." He also says He does not come to condemn, but to save, and that he does not destroy the former law, but to fulfill it. Many Christians see this as the consummation of the old covenant, and the start of a new one, with a new and different understanding of God's commandments and teachings, one that is far more merciful and fully revealed than what was presumed in the Mosaic/Abrahamic covenants, back when God was simply preserving and passing down His Word and teachings until the appointed time when the Messiah would come and begin to set things right... implying a fuller understanding of said laws and commandments was still yet to come.

Remember that even those who saw Christ did not all understand or accept who and what He was. And many of them certainly followed and cleaved to the old Levitical/Mosaic laws. I would also say that God does not think as we do, or act as we would have Him act. He acts in his own time, and according to His own morals and ways, which are (and necessarily must be) beyond our comprehension.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

So, I do not judge. Judgment is not mine, but God's. I do not assume moral superiority to anyone walking the face of the Earth. I am a lowly sinner. I am dust and to dust I shall return. I am nothing. I rely wholly now on God's mercy and forgiveness, knowing that I am as naught in the grand scheme of things, and submit myself to His will and His judgments of me... without concerning myself unduly with condemning others.

I will gently and respectfully encourage others, if they ask, to love God, or to consider faith in God, and to try to cultivate love of God and their neighbor within themselves. But that is their free choice, and I will not condemn or judge them for it.

Every day I pray the following: "Lord, if anyone's heart is hardened to anyone's else's suffering, is wrongfully judging them, if their eyes are closed or their ears are deaf, soften and open their heart; open their eyes; let them hear; but if I am instead the one who is wrong and sinning by not more forcefully condemning others, then let it be me who is chastised and corrected. For I am imperfect and a sinner, and rely utterly on your mercy and guidance. Amen."

This is only what I believe. I respect everyone else's freedom of choice and love everyone irrespective of their faith and ways. I bear no ill will toward anyone, and ask only the same forbearance in return.

Peace.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

Yea, if you're going by all those apologetic teacher's who use that definition. Dude, can you seriously NOT think for yourself???
Talking to fundie's is like talking to the stepford wives of god. Jeesh.

Hilarious and factually true!!!

originally posted by: enterthestage

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

Yea, if you're going by all those apologetic teacher's who use that definition. Dude, can you seriously NOT think for yourself???
Talking to fundie's is like talking to the stepford wives of god. Jeesh.

Hilarious and factually true!!!

Yea.. but it still saddens me. (And want to pull my hair out!!)

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

yes it does.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
so what you are saying is you reject the preserved word of God. Just in case I will quote it and you make up your mind as to what it plainly says

Romans 1:19-32 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

Yea, if you're going by all those apologetic teacher's who use that definition. Dude, can you seriously NOT think for yourself???
Talking to fundie's is like talking to the stepford wives of god. Jeesh.

The term hermeneutics is not exclusive to the interpretation of the Bible.

a reply to: enterthestage

Yeah that is what the religious Elite who perverted the word of God want you to believe and they never teach it in their schools.

But here it is

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

they will quote the verse in its entirety but never teach anyone how to Rightly divide and that is so they can take OT laws and say Christians need to follow it. You are more influenced by the Religious Elite than you think.

So now it would be to your advantage to learn how to "Rightly Divide the word of Truth" from the preserved Bible God himself took time to preserve.

a reply to: enterthestage

I don't agree meaning I don't agree with it as a life style. I believe it is wrong. But Nowhere in the NT is a Christian ever commanded to kill anyone. We are commanded not to have anything to do with wicked life style and to live a holy Life.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Thats because you don't divide the word of God or Truth. Whats true is applicable to all and should never be divided.

I should have figured it had something to do with false prophet Shaul the apostate traitor.

You still never said who gets what portion of what truth.

Let me take a wild guess, its a Jew vs everyone thing?

Even false prophet Shaul said no longer is there a distinction between Jew and Greek. Gentile is a word that has no equivalent in Greek and its Hebrew equivalent is goy which means nations (although sometimes ethos meaning nations is translated to Gentile sometimes it just means Greek and goy has come to mean, derogatorily, cattle) so what in tarnation are you talking about?

I think you are misinterpreting false prophet Shaul's quote. I would recommend not listening to false prophets.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: NOTurTypical

There is no face to save, I know who Hermes is, it's just not relevant to my point. Biblical hermeneutics just means the correct theory of interpretation of the Bible, nothing else.

Yea, if you're going by all those apologetic teacher's who use that definition. Dude, can you seriously NOT think for yourself???
Talking to fundie's is like talking to the stepford wives of god. Jeesh.

The term hermeneutics is not exclusive to the interpretation of the Bible.

And? Your point?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
so what you are saying is you reject the preserved word of God. Just in case I will quote it and you make up your mind as to what it plainly says

Romans 1:19-32 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Could you please just quote Jesus? You are so hung up on Pauline doctrine, that I don't think you have a clue what Jesus actually taught.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: enterthestage

I don't agree meaning I don't agree with it as a life style. I believe it is wrong. But Nowhere in the NT is a Christian ever commanded to kill anyone. We are commanded not to have anything to do with wicked life style and to live a holy Life.

Say's who? WHO says it's a wicked lifestyle? Let me guess...Yahweh and Paul. How bout Jesus? What did HE say?

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
so what you are saying is you reject the preserved word of God. Just in case I will quote it and you make up your mind as to what it plainly says

Romans 1:19-32 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Could you please just quote Jesus? You are so hung up on Pauline doctrine, that I don't think you have a clue what Jesus actually taught.

I It's true he didn't even know that Jesus said "Make disciples of all nations" and thought Jesus was ethnocentric specifically to Jews!!!

The laws are still in place, it should still be capital punishment for homos, murderers, rapists among other crimes.. it is up to the government to be performing the executions.. so why aren't they? Just check out these sermons if you want to know the truth .. God never changes. m.youtube.com...

a reply to: xSYLENTJAYx

You are as bad as ISIS.

a reply to: craig732

Christianity may have the Bible, but the Bible is not the be all and end all of the faith, in fact, it is the fist rung on a series of steps, the rest of which are not written down. The one right after you have done all the bible study you can do without loosing your damned mind, is to develop the personal relationship with Christ.

This is about real faith now, not that hymn singing, everyone in matching GAP summer collection gear crap, but actual faith. Having a personal relationship with Christ means having an open line of communication with Christ if you should need it. When I was a very young lad, I would pray every night, and not just to beg forgiveness for that, or seek health and wellness for this person or that person, but for understanding. On matters political, on matters personal, on matters physical and matters spiritual. First thing I learned was, never ask Jesus to help you with your physics homework...kidding. Actually, the first thing I learned was that the most important things you can do to be closer to Christ, is to love.

It is not to oppress, criticise, cajole, crush, hide or correct people, but to love them, regardless of what they may or may not have done, because to do otherwise is to judge, and that is not our place. It is the root of all the problems that we have as a species, which are not related instead to money.

Humans judging other humans in a spiritual context, is not only laughable, but a vast and sinful folly in and of itself, and to be avoided in EVERY possible way. Why? Because if you judge a person, even in your quiet mind, without opening your mouth, or even allowing the thought to escape your subconscious, if the thought of judgment ever forms ANYWHERE in a person, that person cannot claim to love his fellow person, and has failed to follow Christ.

If you get your connection with Christ in early, these lessons are not hard to learn, because judging others and being a dick to people is a habit one picks up from ones surroundings, not a natural trait that people are generally born with. It's indoctrinated into people. That is why I always say it is better to come to Christ before you ever go to church, because if you try and follow Christ purely in a congregation, you are likely to encounter those who despite every appearance of piousness and loyalty to Christ, will harbour judgement in their hearts that they cannot quite shift. Some of them, attempt to turn others to their way of thinking, so that they can fool themselves into thinking that they are less sinful than others, that even though they are not perfect, at least they aren't like this person, or that person.

This is not the way forward, not the way to the foot of Christ.