Handbags of the Gods.

a reply to: Marduk

Thanks kindly for the response.
Hmm, no more vultures then? Well, I might leave the Sumerian thread for now...

The Egyptian Nekhbet echoes the Göbekli Tepe image (both vultures carrying divine -- or seemingly sacred -- circular objects), so I might see if there's a more concrete lineage there. Wiki says sky-burial was possibly depicted at Göbekli Tepe, I'm assuming they mean the 'vulture stone'... Google throws me straight into the fringe sites, so it might take me a bit of wading.

originally posted by: Marduk
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk...
Where the Vulture is attached to the word "weaver",
I have no idea why...

Hm, very interesting fragment indeed, thanks for the link.

O bird in the sky! O vulture, weaver, vulture, weaver! O uz vulture in the sky! O vulture, weaver, vulture, weaver!

You wouldn't know the translation of 'uz' by any chance? (... goat?)

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Marduk

That's not a lizard guy in the picture, can you upload one that is.

Yeah that's one of those lizard guys, shape shifted. i think they needed moisture to keep the skin on

Natural form

You associated that figure with a water bucket, but there isn't one, are you suggesting that the bucket being symbolic, isn't necessarily needed to match your imagination?

Ok

We come in disguise


We lived in water we need to be moist

a reply to: pthena

I can see the point with regards to the bees locating in the wilderness and providing nourishment, isn't there also something about a serpent not eating for forty days before shedding it's skin in order to regenerate...?

a reply to: Saturnschild

There was the bag gifted to Perseus in order to place within it the head of Medusa, and when he was in the mood he would produce it from within and petrify everyone to death....



And there are lots of Griffins with vulture aspects.

originally posted by: Saturnschild

You wouldn't know the translation of 'uz' by any chance? (... goat?)

Goat is Uzud
most probably U'Uz"a bird"
psd.museum.upenn.edu...
the text was probably fragmentary

a reply to: SeaWorthy
a bird headed genie and several priests wearing a fish costume to emulate Adapa, the wise fisherman, the big clue there is you can see their feet poking out the bottom

no lizard ?

a reply to: Kantzveldt

isn't there also something about a serpent not eating for forty days before shedding it's skin in order to regenerate...?

I found some interesting info on a veterinary? site, having to do with turtles and snakes. The turtle one sounds more like Telepinu.

Chelonians
Turtles and tortoises, terrestrial and aquatic alike, shed their skin.
...
Do not let species from arid climates do a lot of soaking. Some, like Russian tortoises, seem to be "programmed" to take as much time soaking as possible whenever water is available, as it is not often available in their native range. Provide a constant source of soaking water for them, and they will stay in it to the point of causing shell rot. Some species of tortoise and other terrestrial chelonians may take advantage of more humid microclimates in the wild, burrowing under plants, digging into the earth around their roots where moisture may be retained long after it has dried up on the surface of the ground. These species may benefit from the occasional wallow, soak or spray when they appear to be having problems shedding.

Snakes
Snakes, like many lizards, utilize microclimates in the wild, laying in underground burrows or in rocky crevices,
...
Snakes go through a several day period where their eyes cloud up as the fluid builds up between the old and new spectacles. ... Once the eyes clear, the snake will soon be ready to start its shed. I have found that if I bathe a snake (in a warm bath, for 15-20 minutes) the day the eyes are clear again, it will shed completely within the following 24 hours. I bathe the large snakes in the bathtub rather than wrestle a tub full of water into and out of their enclosure;...

Pre-Shed Behavioral Changes
Going into shed is apparently not a real fun thing for snakes and lizards. Most get rather cranky during this time, with some individuals becoming hissy or snappy, objecting to being held or touched. The best thing to do is to respect their ill-feeling as much as possible.

While reptiles may still eat when in the very early phase of the pre-shed period, as the period progresses, they usually lose their appetite. Most greatly reduce their food intake; others stop eating altogether until after they have shed. Some snakes will not eat while their eyes are milky; some will take a meal once the eyes have cleared but before they shed, while others will not eat until after they shed.
anapsid-shedding

Moisture or humidity seem rather essential.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks for the images Kantzveldt!
Medusa's head in Perseus' bag; good connection! I'm looking more into the Pre-Pottery Neolithic cultures around Anatolia, Göbekli Tepe, etc, seems the vulture was important to them over an extended period of time. I'm wondering how widespread its influence was, or how much it reflected early shamanic cults in surrounding areas. Nekhbet, for example, is a very early Egyptian goddess from Predynastic times. She is depicted as a vulture clutching the Shen ring (visually similar -- see below), & presided over a necropolis whose priestesses were referred to as 'mothers' (symbolically similar).



It seems others have thought along similar lines, but I'm only just starting to wade through the data. The Ancient Egyptian depiction of personal souls (ba) are almost a condensed version of a vulture carrying a human head/soul, although I'm guessing this connection has been pointed out before(?). I wonder if excarnation ('sky-burial') became taboo in certain areas as religious conceptions evolved... Even looking at the Sumerian Stele of the Vultures, the iconography (including Anzû -- vulture-like -- on top of a bag of corpses) is similar.

At the same time, I'm not trying to say that this symbol (vulture carrying circle/head/soul, possibly with accompanying Kursa) is symbolically identical across cultures... I'm more interested in the evolving nature of these concepts & the way they live in the unconscious / collective unconscious. It gets murky since 'history' wants to pin down a single, more or less objective perspective, while these images have symbolic weight that is extremely adaptable, almost defined by their ability to express a bunch of abstract feelings simultaneously.

a reply to: pthena

Thar's true with the return into the Earth there doesn't seem to be any turtle related Telepinu iconography though and he didn't shed his skin, there is the scorpion though which of course had wilderness association.

The most intriguing aspect of his cult with regards to Christianity is the correlation of an individual with the cosmological premise of a mansion with many rooms, Heaven as a very large luxury Palace or Temple or Hotel, which is also the basis for Free Masonry, in terms of iconography that association is made clearer than anywhere else at Jiroft and continued in Iranian symbolism, though also it was present in other cultures.

There has to be something collective involved in the conceptual establishment of such a great work, many individuals sharing the same dream as it were, and it's noteworthy the importance given to great collective construction projects in the early bronze age, that such ideology carried through into the construction of the Heavenly palace itself, the very first evidence for such a collective effort though would be Gobekli Tepe.

a reply to: Saturnschild

It's hard of course to find any PPN evidence, with regards to Nekhbet then as her counterpart Wadjet relates to the internal energies associate with the Atum then she represents the external conceptualization, the detached abstraction that glides effortlessly above, inclusive of such strange notions as death and a Necropolis were the dead might live, in the abstract all is effortless and entirely lacking in evidence.

a reply to: Kantzveldt
Sorry to jump in without reading the whole thread (busy little bee that I am) but I thought I'd give you a hint at my thoughts.

You may have hinted at this elsewhere, I'm not sure, but I reckon that the "handbags" are powerful evidence that the same "preisthood", for want of a better term, were present among the Hittites, Sumerians and also the Gobekli Tepi settlement.

originally posted by: mindrape
You may have hinted at this elsewhere, I'm not sure, but I reckon that the "handbags" are powerful evidence that the same "preisthood", for want of a better term, were present among the Hittites, Sumerians and also the Gobekli Tepi settlement.

You're claiming the existence of a 10,000 year priesthood based on a bag ?
Leather buckets were pretty universal technology in the ancient world. No plastic..

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: mindrape
You may have hinted at this elsewhere, I'm not sure, but I reckon that the "handbags" are powerful evidence that the same "preisthood", for want of a better term, were present among the Hittites, Sumerians and also the Gobekli Tepi settlement.

You're claiming the existence of a 10,000 year priesthood based on a bag ?
Leather buckets were pretty universal technology in the ancient world. No plastic..

They were given remarkable prominence if they were just buckets.

I guess priesthood is the wrong term, perhaps tradition makes more sense. There are amazing similarities between imagery in Sumer and Gobekli Tepi, especially considering how little we have from the latter.

handbags? I guess its just the plans for the death star..


I´m sure Sitchin wrote about that somewhere..

originally posted by: mindrape
They were given remarkable prominence if they were just buckets.

.

So you should easily be able to find, what 50 ?

rather than the few well known examples posted in this thread...

WOW! What fools these gods were for not inventing a fanny pack in there infinite and godly wisdom, and daily lives to carry there various godly # around.

But really people? Three whole pages about bags and buckets and the dope doping practices of ancient and old hippies and there groovy drugs of choice and there various carrying methods there in employed.

WOW! A bit excessive. I will leave this thread alone before I think to much on it and realize just how pointless trying to interpret old crappy pictorials and what looks like drawings and art that was done by a 9 yr old is, an outdated practice for sure. But hey at least it is one step above interpreting stick figure drawings. Gives me a migraine even contemplating it all. A fun practice I am sure, but not when one actually takes such a practice as serious.

What can I say yes, it took at the very least 10,000 years before people realized the usefulness of backpacks or better yet a fannypack and other such devices which left the hands free to pick ones nose, long before then when ancient peoples had to go on any long trips they generally carried a bag in there hands and every time they had to scratch that itch on there asses they had to stop, put there bag, or bucket down, proceed to scratching that itch, then pick up there bag or bucket and go back to going on there merry way.

It may have taken tens of thousands of years before the realization of tying said bag with a rope around there waist or backside was realized. In fact I just checked with my buddy google and it says that the backpack was invented in 1969. Ancient technology indeed.

But I suppose of handbags and buckets were considered godly back then, then the backpack and fannypack would have blown these ancient peoples minds into new and never before seen dimensions. A bag that you dont have to hold in your hand all day and can carry all esentials with you daily? Get out of here! What crackerjack crazy talk is that?

I know the prospect of the topic in this thread has left me quite literally dumbstruck and speechless and left me questioning the sanity of both ancient and modern peoples, for peoples who knew the secrets of the stars but not yet quite grasping the concept of a bag with a rope around it for ease of convenience, is truly awe inspiring in its dopiness and literally did leave me speechless.

But thankfully it has not left me typingless. I almost feel like I may have gotten some sort of point across using nothing but words on a screen, thank the internet gods for that at least, the great and mighty Al Gore in his infinite wisdom has foreseen this very event I am quite sure.

a reply to: mindrape

This is true because we also see the basis for the Noahs ark flood/restoration mythos in the tale of Telepinu, that as a hunter/gatherer he has collected a portion of every animal and collected them in his bag, and that apart from eating them for his dinner if he so chooses he could use that DNA towards the restoration of the Earth and Cosmos, this was probably the best explanation that visiting aliens could come up with to explain their activities...

a reply to: galadofwarthethird#

Well yes it was never really about the Holy Grail it was about the bag placed within it and the task of every bee to collectively search for it, an astonishing tale.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: mindrape

This is true because we also see the basis for the Noahs ark flood/restoration mythos in the tale of Telepinu, that as a hunter/gatherer he has collected a portion of every animal and collected them in his bag...

Not seeing this in the Telepinu myth.

Harte

Which came first the Hand bag or the Ankh...

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: mindrape
They were given remarkable prominence if they were just buckets.

.

So you should easily be able to find, what 50 ?

Find 50 where?