1987 years failure of Christianity to build God's kingdom. Jesus' teaching recorded correctly?

originally posted by: enterthestage

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: enterthestage

final times on Earth the way we know it. Check the OP post.

Yeah, death. The world will be here after us and longer. There is no "final times" as people have (ludicrously) believed for 2000 years. It's a case of misinterpreting the scriptures and fear based manipulation. Everyone in Jesus day thought they lived in the end and so has every generation since.

You want to change Christianity? Discovery the enormity of false prophet Saul's impact negatively on what was a reasonable theology that he shunned in order to be the first cult leader of Christianity.

Then you will be in a position to effect change. You can't see it if you don't want to and because you don't want to but anybody with even average reading skills that has read Matthew to Revelation has seen what you aren't or are in too deep to admit.

It's the story of the 12, Jesus and later after he ascends some murdering snitch troublemaker cancels the true teachings for worthless rambling complaints and nothing he says is remotely intelligent. He is terrible and how people can't see this is mind boggling. I think that the teachings of Jesus are soteriological and gnostic in essence. Paul's "only faith not works (of Torah) justifies/saves are his only and not from anyone else, as he boasts about so often. That means he made them up.¥

Be a part of the solution if you want to help, stop ignoring the overwhelming evidence of Saul's being the prophecied false prophet of Matthew and confirmed by Paul and Revelation.

Until then you are part of the problem.

¥Essentially he is saying don't learn from anyone who isn't me or approved by me especially the arch Apostles (who actually met the Messiah). It's a test, you are warned of Saul in Matthew 24:23 and you didn't know it but you are being tested in loyalty. Hell he doesn't even get mentioned in Revelation which if he was chosen would have happened. 12 Apostles are mentioned but he is not one of the 12 as there were 12 before him already and that is the max.

I don't know who you are trying to blame for the sad state of Christendom but you should focus on Paul. The first Christians the Ebionites and Nazarenes did, and they knew Jesus.

Paul is a liar, read the book straight through and you will get it.

There aren't enough stars and flags for what you just wrote....Kudos to you!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Give me one doctrine in Pauls writings that cant be found else where if you think this is worth stars and flags....

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I wonder when we finally get the full books and truth of Jesus, how all of that will look like. I don't say Jdas didn't betray the Lord. Probably we will get many more facts of the life of Jesus that now many of us can't even imagine.

Don't say impossible! One source only are the newly discovered ancient scrolls. Another source much more reliable is the filmed life of Jesus from "clouds" by angels. Or you think they can't do it? How then God will judge us showing our entire life as in a movie watched from outside, as near death experience shows it happens? I also remember past moments as if I watch myself from somewhat above. That is how it is recorded and how our mind retrieves it back. If it is possible for us, sure it is possible for Jesus. Sooner than later, we will have 33 year long movie (OMG!) perhaps with shorter versions for our convenience. If there is something to convert the world it would be this one, plus the witness of the 144,000 firstfruits.

With time ticking to Fatima Oct 13 (check my link above) I have to prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. Few will be to find the gates of heaven. Gates? Stargates may be?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Give me one doctrine in Pauls writings that cant be found else where if you think this is worth stars and flags....

List of 25 Contradictions Expounded Below



• Jesus Says Not To Eat Meat Sacrificed to Idols, But Paul Says It Is
Ok


• Jesus Says The Law Continues, But Paul Says No


• Paul Says The Pharisees Followed The Law Rigorously, But Jesus
Says They Were Lax About The Law


• Jesus Says Salvation Initiates And Continues By Repentance From
Sin and Obedience Besides Faith; Paul Says This is Heresy


• Jesus Tells Apostles To Teach His Commands Given Prior to HisAscension While In The Flesh, But Paul Says Not To Do So

• Paul Says Elders Are Entitled To Pay for 'Preaching & Teaching,' But
Jesus Says No


• Jesus Teaches There Are Only 12 Apostles Into Eternity, But Paul
Adds Himself To The List As a Thirteenth


• Paul Exhorts Celibacy, But Jesus Clearly Says It is A Choice Not
Within Everyone's Power


• Jesus Says There Is One Pastor and Teacher (Himself), But Paul
Says There Are Many Pastors and Teachers


• Paul Says God Is The God of the Dead, But Jesus Says God Is Not
The God of the Dead


• Paul Says God Does Not Live in Temples Made of Human Hands,
But Jesus Says He Does


• Jesus says Nations Of The World Are Under Satan, But Paul Says
Their Rulers Are Agents of God


• Jesus Teaches Rapture is Of Evil Ones First, But Paul Teaches The
Opposite


• Jesus Says A Call Is Revocable, But Paul Says It Is Irrevocable


• Jesus Says Some Are Righteous, But Paul Says It Is Impossible


• Paul Excludes Eating With Sinners But Christ's Example We Are To
Follow, and the Lost Sheep Parable, Is Contrary


• Paul Teaches We Are Eternally Secure, But Jesus Teaches Insecurity
to a Sinning Believer


• Paul Teaches In Original Sin But Jesus Contradicts


• Jesus' Command About Calling Anyone Fool Is Violated by Paul


• Paul Denies Obedience Grants Any Righteousness Unto Life, But
Jesus Says It Does


• Jesus Sends The Apostles to Baptize, But Paul Says Jesus Did Not
Send Him to Baptize


• Jesus Says the Merciful Receive Mercy, But Paul Says Only Those God
Chooses Arbitrarily Will Receive Mercy


• Paul Says Salvation Does Not Depend Upon Exertion, But Jesus
Says It Does

• Paul Says He Could Be Justified of The Sin that Never Could be Justified under the Law given Moses (Blasphemy), but Jesus says to the contrary that it is The Unpardonable Sin.

• Paul Says Flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God, but Jesus in Flesh ascended to heaven, and promises to resurrect our bodies to heaven, giving us the same physical resurrection that Jesus had.

a reply to: 2012newstart

How then God will judge us showing our entire life as in a movie watched from outside, as near death experience shows it happens?

Funny you said that...I spent a couple nights (about a year ago) reading a bunch of NDE'S. What was interesting was that all of them (from little children to elderly people) said what they experienced in that moment of death, was complete love. What was even more interesting, was that many of these people weren't "Christians". When they came back into their bodies, it radically changed them. They were no longer afraid of death and they wanted to do their best to love others.
I thought it was interesting that they didn't talk about Jesus (a few did), but there was no fear. Some had remorse over not doing more in their lives, but none of them wanted to come back.
Take it for what it's worth. I kept waiting for someone to talk about the "law" and being told they were an unfaithful servant, or that without Jesus they were going to be excluded from eternal life. Not one of them experienced that.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: NOTurTypical

that is al the "official story" sealed by Constantine and his fellow bishops (he should be elected 'pope', actually he pretended to be 'bishop' to the gentile Roman elite while he was unbaptized).
Have you read the Gospel of Judas?
BTW I don't think this is the main topic of this thread anyway.

No, I don't pay any attention to pseudepigrapha.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Well, like I said, the scriptures say Judas repented to himself only. I'm sure he was full of sorrow for betraying his friend, but there isn't any indication in the text that he repented to God.

And why are you worried bout Paul becoming an apostle and not mentioning James the half brother of Jesus becoming an apostle and leading the church at Jerusalem and writing one of the books of the New Testament?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

And why are you worried bout Paul becoming an apostle and not mentioning James the half brother of Jesus becoming an apostle and leading the church at Jerusalem and writing one of the books of the New Testament?

Ummmm....because James was one of the actual pillars (incl. John and Peter).
Why don't you explain to me, NOTurTypical, how there can be 13 apostles? Show me where Jesus ever said there were 13. You aren't allowed to use Paul to support Paul, either. Find in scripture (gospels, revelation, whatever) where there were 13 apostles.

Here, let me help you out.......
Simon: called Peter (Grk. petros, petra; Aram. kēf; Engl. rock) by Jesus, also known as Simon bar Jonah and Simon bar Jochanan (Aram.) and earlier (Pauline Epistles were written first) Cephas (Aram.) by Paul of Tarsus and Simon Peter, a fisherman from Bethsaida "of Galilee" (John 1:44; cf. 12:21)
Andrew: brother of Peter, a Bethsaida fisherman and disciple of John the Baptist, and also the First-Called Apostle
James and
John: sons of Zebedee, called by Jesus Boanerges (an Aramaic name explained in Mk 3:17 as "Sons of Thunder")
Philip: from Bethsaida "of Galilee" (John 1:44, 12:21)
Thaddeus: "Judas, son of James and Judas (not Iscariot)", (Mark 10:3, Acts 1:13, Luke 6:16, John 14:22)
Bartholomew: in Aramaic "bar-Talemai?", "son of Talemai" or from Ptolemais, some identify with Nathanael
Thomas: also known as Judas Thomas Didymus - Aramaic T'oma' = twin, and Greek Didymous = twin
James: commonly identified with James the Less [1]
Matthew: the tax collector, some identify with Levi son of Alphaeus
Simon the Canaanite: called in Luke and Acts "Simon the Zealot", some identify with Simeon of Jerusalem[2]
Judas Iscariot: the name Iscariot may refer to the Judaean towns of Kerioth or to the sicarii (Jewish nationalist insurrectionists), or to Issachar;
He was replaced as an apostle in Acts by Matthias

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Where is Paul in the list????

Revelation 21:12-14New International Version (NIV)

12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well, like I said, the scriptures say Judas repented to himself only. I'm sure he was full of sorrow for betraying his friend, but there isn't any indication in the text that he repented to God.

How much sorrow does one need to have for it to qualify as "true repentance" to God? Being "full of sorrow for betraying a friend"...to the point of taking your own life over it, sounds pretty repentant to me. Guess God couldn't be bothered with it though. Yet, the scriptures say that Jesus chose a murdering Pharisee (who never repented, by the way), who Jesus also warned his disciples of by saying "beware the leaven of the Pharisee's) to take a NEW and DIFFERENT gospel to the gentiles (when that commission was actually given to Peter first (remember the vision Peter had on the rooftop??) .
Guess Jesus couldn't be bothered with letting his guy's know that the message changed...He just informed Saul.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: NOTurTypical

that is al the "official story" sealed by Constantine and his fellow bishops (he should be elected 'pope', actually he pretended to be 'bishop' to the gentile Roman elite while he was unbaptized).
Have you read the Gospel of Judas?
BTW I don't think this is the main topic of this thread anyway.

No, I don't pay any attention to pseudepigrapha.

Then you don't pay attention to the Bible, it's mostly pseudepigrapha.

Organized Religion isn't something that works well today and can be compared to organized politics. It's all a bunch of bs with truth here and there.

It took me years and years to figure out for myself what I believe. Belief is personal and it's my opinion it hould be kept that way. No 2 people will agree on everything and same goes for the Bible.

I do go to church ( non denominational) for the fellowship of the maybe 30 members half of which are my family. The preacher is genuine and believes the Bible in his own interpretation and that is okay with me today.

After years of research I have come to the conclusion the Bible is many mens interpretation of ancient texts. Their beliefs trickeled onto the print of what could have been a different type of book altogether. I believe it was edited by Francis Bacon and do believe it is coded. I also have the belief there is a force within and abroad that created life out of chaos. Jesus has lived many lifetimes and each time he is portrayed in a different light than which he appears.

originally posted by: enterthestage

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: NOTurTypical

that is al the "official story" sealed by Constantine and his fellow bishops (he should be elected 'pope', actually he pretended to be 'bishop' to the gentile Roman elite while he was unbaptized).
Have you read the Gospel of Judas?
BTW I don't think this is the main topic of this thread anyway.

No, I don't pay any attention to pseudepigrapha.

Then you don't pay attention to the Bible, it's mostly pseudepigrapha.

It's not, I can't think of any books that were written by someone else and given a title attributing it to an apostle or prophet. Nearly all the books of the Bible aren't titled, they have been attributed authorship by scholars and historians. When I'm talking about pseudepigrapha I'm talking about Gnostic books from the 3-5th century AD who added names like "Gospel of Thomas", "Gospel of Judas", "Gospel of Peter".

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ummmm....because James was one of the actual pillars (incl. John and Peter). Why don't you explain to me, NOTurTypical, how there can be 13 apostles? Show me where Jesus ever said there were 13. You aren't allowed to use Paul to support Paul, either. Find in scripture (gospels, revelation, whatever) where there were 13 apostles.

No, James the brother of John was executed by Herod in Acts chapter 12. The apostle James who wrote the book of James and who lead the church of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15 was James the half-brother of Jesus. (Not one of the 12 disciples)

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well, like I said, the scriptures say Judas repented to himself only. I'm sure he was full of sorrow for betraying his friend, but there isn't any indication in the text that he repented to God.

How much sorrow does one need to have for it to qualify as "true repentance" to God? Being "full of sorrow for betraying a friend"...to the point of taking your own life over it, sounds pretty repentant to me. Guess God couldn't be bothered with it though. Yet, the scriptures say that Jesus chose a murdering Pharisee (who never repented, by the way), who Jesus also warned his disciples of by saying "beware the leaven of the Pharisee's) to take a NEW and DIFFERENT gospel to the gentiles (when that commission was actually given to Peter first (remember the vision Peter had on the rooftop??) .
Guess Jesus couldn't be bothered with letting his guy's know that the message changed...He just informed Saul.

Seeking God and repenting to him for forgiveness of sins is pretty specific. Being sorry for doing something wrong isn't the same thing, in fact Atheists can easily be sorry for hurting someone they love. The texts say Judas repented to himself, meaning he had a change of mind. He was sad he betrayed a friend, nothing in the text says he sought forgiveness and reconciliation to God.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ummmm....because James was one of the actual pillars (incl. John and Peter). Why don't you explain to me, NOTurTypical, how there can be 13 apostles? Show me where Jesus ever said there were 13. You aren't allowed to use Paul to support Paul, either. Find in scripture (gospels, revelation, whatever) where there were 13 apostles.

No, James the brother of John was executed by Herod in Acts chapter 12. The apostle James who wrote the book of James and who lead the church of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15 was James the half-brother of Jesus. (Not one of the 12 disciples)

And you really think Saul would understand and know Jesus better than His half brother??? Luke wasn't an apostle either, but we have the book of Acts. Luke was a disciple of Saul...but, I think Luke figured Saul out eventually.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Judas was told to betray Christ by Christ, he was chosen for it by God and Christ.

Judas should be a Saint. He didn't want to do it and was literally possessed by Satan when he did.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ummmm....because James was one of the actual pillars (incl. John and Peter). Why don't you explain to me, NOTurTypical, how there can be 13 apostles? Show me where Jesus ever said there were 13. You aren't allowed to use Paul to support Paul, either. Find in scripture (gospels, revelation, whatever) where there were 13 apostles.

No, James the brother of John was executed by Herod in Acts chapter 12. The apostle James who wrote the book of James and who lead the church of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15 was James the half-brother of Jesus. (Not one of the 12 disciples)

And you really think Saul would understand and know Jesus better than His half brother??? Luke wasn't an apostle either, but we have the book of Acts. Luke was a disciple of Saul...but, I think Luke figured Saul out eventually.

You're going off on a tangent. I asked earlier why you're saying Paul isn't an apostle when James the leader of the church in Jerusalem and writer of the book of James isn't attacked for not being one of the 12 apostles? He was never one of the 12 disciples and further, him and Jesus's other half-brother Judas (Jude) weren't even believers in Christ until some time after the resurrection.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ummmm....because James was one of the actual pillars (incl. John and Peter). Why don't you explain to me, NOTurTypical, how there can be 13 apostles? Show me where Jesus ever said there were 13. You aren't allowed to use Paul to support Paul, either. Find in scripture (gospels, revelation, whatever) where there were 13 apostles.

No, James the brother of John was executed by Herod in Acts chapter 12. The apostle James who wrote the book of James and who lead the church of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15 was James the half-brother of Jesus. (Not one of the 12 disciples)

And you really think Saul would understand and know Jesus better than His half brother??? Luke wasn't an apostle either, but we have the book of Acts. Luke was a disciple of Saul...but, I think Luke figured Saul out eventually.

Absolutely he figured it out and left us many clues. Like recording three irreconcilably alternate tales of his "conversion" and the outcome of the sit down with James in Jerusalem, being saved by Romans.

If anything Luke was a stand up guy who told the tale as honestly as possible without it being destroyed so we could figure it out just in case they tried to rewrite history.

Ingenious!

originally posted by: enterthestage
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Judas was told to betray Christ by Christ, he was chosen for it by God and Christ.

Judas should be a Saint. He didn't want to do it and was literally possessed by Satan when he did.

He was still a sinner like you and I are, without redemption through Christ and repentance nobody will meet God. Judas isn't any different, and I don't see anything in the text that says Judas was a believer or that he repented to God. I guess we will find out for sure when we die, but the text appears to say he committed suicide in a state of unregeneration.