Roswell: The lies just keep on coming.

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
By no fault I think
some Roswell threads tend to be misleading.
80% of the people that reply to a
'There's nothing to Roswell thread' have not read
either a Klass or Schmidt book about Roswell.
And therefore wrong foregone conclusions abound.

In my opinion the Roswell threads that tend to be misleading are those authored by pro-UFO crash. You can't use non-existent statistics to get your questionable 80%. By your mentioning Klass you sound as if you don't support a UFO crash since Klass is anti-UFO crash and wrote a great book on Roswell:
"Demolishing the Roswell ‘Alien’ Myth" - a review by Dave Thomas
Skeptical Inquirer Volume 22.3, May / June 1998
www.csicop.org...

I have followed "The crash" for 35+ years,
I have read just about every serious report
or book about Roswell pro or con and am quite convinced
it wasn't a weather ballon or a mogul listening device
nor rubber dummies 10 years later.
Has a single person verified any
of the official explanations ?
Official Story verified deathbed confessions ?

You would think that after that length of time you would have seen through the mountain of bs and realized that the non-crash facts are superior to the opposite which is that a UFO did crash. Where is the evidence for a UFO crash anywhere on earth? Have you seen any gigantic leap in any technology that might have benefited from alleged reverse-engineering of craft and/or bodies? Me neither. Testimony and deathbed confessions have not revealed anything worth taking to the bank.

There are literally a couple hundred that
have talked about high strangeness on the periphery
of the crash story and dead extraterrestrials
and cover stories at the center.

Mogul=1
Captured Interplanetary Disc=300+

Such people have ignored Pflock's and others' contribution to the truth side of the event which has never resulted in any high strangeness aside from what made the principals behave the way they did in not coming out with the truth in the first place.

To accept the Mogul train explanation is logical. To accept a UFO crash with or without the attendant beings is illogical.

a reply to: seattlerat

There's a relevant post at the thread below about Pilkington"s film with an article entitled "Nest of Weasels" - well worth a read if you're into "viewing both sides of the UFO coin".


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Likewise Carrion's recent claims and a nice rebuttal by Brad Sparks can be found here (if you've not seen them already).



kevinrandle.blogspot.com.es...

originally posted by: shawmanfromny

Others may disagree, but I believe that these clips provide strong circumstantial evidence proving that the object that crashed at Roswell was no weather balloon or "military" object...

I don't know what the object was either but A51Watcher conducted some great research at the thread below which puts other UFO sightings from the 2 week period before Roswell into context - apparently there was quite a lot.


The day before Roswell

originally posted by: klassless


It was the usual cock-and-bull promotion article by Lee Speigel who was instrumental in my attending the UN UFO day back in 1978.

Some rare footage here from that one Klassless - can I ask if you used to post on ATS as 'The Shrike" (and before that as "Skeptical Ed')?

Cheers.

a reply to: klassless

Good for you!!!! Do you feel better now? I give you credit for standing by your convictions. Nothing wrong with that, actually quite admirable. I may have missed it, but you said in Washington, DC you actually handled pieces from this incident from 1947. When? And exactly what? and Why? Just curious.


Have a nice day.

Peace

KD

^^^ Actually he did relate his material handling earlier in the thread.


I am curious about Klassless though. Who are you in the field, background etc etc. I ask because by the posts, it sounds like you could be an insider, military, scientist or something

originally posted by: vlawde
^^^ Actually he did relate his material handling earlier in the thread.


I am curious about Klassless though. Who are you in the field, background etc etc. I ask because by the posts, it sounds like you could be an insider, military, scientist or something

I'm none of the above and who would place such a person here on the ATS Aliens and UFOs? It would be useless as nothing of importance is discussed.

In the field I never became a person of importance 'cause I saw early on that I would stay "undercover", as it were, because I would have been forced to associate with people that are less than sterling. Imagine me, an open-minded skeptic, rubbing elbows with Stanton Friedman and/or "The Hair Guy" or any of the other celebrities that do nothing but harm UFOlogy with their patented bs?

Knowledge based on research helps me stay out of the pack. I consider everything and cherry-pick.

Thanks for the compliments!

a reply to: klassless

Thanks, I was just curious. I figured you likely have some connections to have access to the debris

originally posted by: vlawde
a reply to: klassless

Thanks, I was just curious. I figured you likely have some connections to have access to the debris

My connection is with the photographer who was commissioned to go to DC and take the photos for the magazine. He's my brother-in-law and I used to help him in his studio when he was a commercial photographer. I handled the debris and it was a thrill as I accepted the debris as being part of what was recovered at the Foster Ranch location. If it had been from a UFO crash I don't think the public would have had access to it and it wouldn't have been delegated to a "paper warehouse"!

a reply to: klassless

Oh, was that the stuff in the wooden crate?

originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: klassless

Oh, was that the stuff in the wooden crate?

There were a couple of wooden crates that held more of the various parts but not every piece of debris needed to be archived as only a representation was needed for posterity. The file cabinets were bulging with paperwork but not all of it of the Mogul stuff. That could be at another location which could still be classified. I'm just glad that everything was neat and well catalogued and well lit. I had always visualized it as in the film "LOST RAIDERS OF THE ARK", that final huge, dark warehouse scene.

a reply to: klassless
Is this really your best shot at Roswell? Seriously?

I examined the debris? I examined memory metal. Evidence? Prove I didn't.

Not impressed at all. I do remember reading something quite good on Roswell here once, written years ago but I forget which member.

This seems to be turning into a predominantly right wing American Politics site.

Karl 12, do you remember who wrote the Roswell threads that actually dealt with evidence. It was on old member here.

a reply to: karl 12
Was it Gazrok who actually examined evidence rather than just making assertions and ad hominem attacks?

a reply to: mindrape

There are many Roswell threads and far too many to list. But here's a handful worth looking at that explore both sides of the fence as to whether it was a truly extraordinary event of not.

The Case for Roswell: Part I.

The Day Before Roswell

Roswell for Dummies

And a small piece by yours truly covering some of the 'evidence' klassless is talking about :

Popular Mechanics & Science - What Really Happened at Roswell?

a reply to: mirageman
Thanks Mirageman. The thread I remembered was Gazrok's. I'm very familiar with The Day Before Roswell material.

Off topic: Are you Mark Pilkington?

ETA: I like that you ask the question, "Did a bunch of wannabees looking for fame or a quick buck suddenly jump on a bandwagon encouraged by ‘researchers’ eager to sell books?

Or was there a concerted effort to undermine the whole Roswell story once Jesse Marcel decided to pipe up?"

I suspect a lot of the ex military intelligence witnesses that turn out to not be credible have deliberately discredited stories. This puts off serious researchers.

A good example would be the Paul Bennewitz case. Yes I know Bennewitz was sent in all directions by a disinfo campaign but initially he did film and record something which is obviously what they were trying to divert attention from. Try and get your hands on the Bennewitz tapes if you think there was nothing to hide.

That does not mean the cover up is of alien technology of course but how can we know.

originally posted by: mindrape
a reply to: klassless
Is this really your best shot at Roswell? Seriously?

I examined the debris? I examined memory metal. Evidence? Prove I didn't.

Not impressed at all. I do remember reading something quite good on Roswell here once, written years ago but I forget which member.

This seems to be turning into a predominantly right wing American Politics site.

Karl 12, do you remember who wrote the Roswell threads that actually dealt with evidence. It was on old member here.

I don't know what your angle is that results in such repulsive dialog but my angle is clear and it is here in this thread. You are free to agree and disagree. If you know something that the rest of the world doesn't and Uncle Sam wouldn't kill you if you revealed irrefutable evidence, then start a thread.

But don't use my thread to bitch without contributing. And don't address other members from my thread. Send Karl 12 a private message. I'm sure he'll appreciate your candor.

a reply to: klassless

From what I can work out, you put an opening post then people are free to respond with opinions and related content. I did that. It isn't up to you what I write, whether I post here or in my own thread or who I address.

And my opinion hasn't changed, your opening post adds nothing to what we know about Roswell. And I don't believe your claim that you handled debris. I think you made it up.

originally posted by: karl 12

from that one Klassless - can I ask if you used to post on ATS as 'The Shrike" (and before that as "Skeptical Ed')?

Cheers.

Yes it is the Shrike.

He is using the same Avatar picture and exhibits the same behaviour which stands out a mile.

Why'd you change your name the Shrike?

a reply to: karl 12

I believe that this post from 2012 will answer all your questions:

He already admitted I believe in another thread he is indeed that poster, The Shrike.

Don't care honestly.. he acts as if he is the last word on ufology, and it's hilarious. I've been "studying" and "researching" UFOs as long as he has claimed to do so. I just don't feel the need to trumpet my history, nor do I need to prove anything. The evidence speaks for itself. And this guy ignores any evidence if it doesn't align with his research. He obviously despises Friedman, but Stanton is the guy who put the most man hours and research into Roswell, and he never even read his book! It doesn't even matter if you don't agree with an agenda, opinion, theory, or whatever.. not even bothering to read the research of the lead of your opposition is laughable.

Same blather in another thread.. made ludicrous case-ending, debunking claims for the Phoenix lights case, and.. didn't even bother to read / research any of the case beyond a special and perhaps a news story or two. No research.. all talk. Not much there to debate.. can believe whatever he likes, and post it here.. but to me, it's just a lot of noise.