Full Blown Twilight Zone - Alien Abductions (From A-Z)

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: boncho

LOL

Really?

It's literally the exact same, in parallel, as the way it was being framed, no?

No. C'mon man. We tag our animals as a sign of ownership. We don't want anyone else coming around and saying they are theirs. Such a stretch. I grew up on a farm for crying' out loud.

Did you grow up on a farm, or did you grow up on their farm?? hehehe

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: zazzafrazz

I don't know about that, I travel the world often to just explore and observe and learn

This is a good point for a variety of reasons. Some of the arguments are:

"came so far, but crashed here? pfft"

Yes. And we have science vessels. We also have Command Ships, and we also have dinghies. There's also time-travel, think of two of the same ship, coming out at the same point in space-time. There is also radar-which, given the reported telepathic nature of the ETs, may very well be like a flash grenade to them.

They came millions of light-years in our giant universe to see us, surely there's better stuff out there!

Is there? We would travel millions/billions/trillions of miles to see another species, post a "multi-generational trip to Alpha-Centuri" see how many sign up---bet it's more +1000. Also if they did indeed seed us, gene-splice us, were our past 'gods' than it only makes sense they return---on that note, why is the Vatican one of (if not the) largest owners of telescopes and observatories?

I think some already have the full story.

a reply to: Chadwickus

And your animal tag photo kinda weakens your point. We put the same kind of tags on the same spot... See that consistency thing again.

"We do" as in "all humans" and "all animals" put tags in the exact same spot for every animal (respectively?) Amazing, since I thought they tag different animals differently. And in different studies used different types of implants/markers. Dogs for instance get RFID. Individual labs and scientists may put tags in different places for different reasons. Can you cite the regs that dictate they can only go in a single spot, ever, in ever circumstance?

Is there a world science commission that governs all biologists around the world? There are after all, reports of different species. Also, the 'hive mind' from what people report, seems local to a single hive. Meaning each pod/craft/hive could be operating under different protocols. Also, if its happening at the rates they are saying, it's possible it could be multiple factions/groups/companies/gods (whatever they are or see themselves as or whatever-without insight, which is being held back its impossible to make a proper analysis of the situation.)

ETA: Many of the scoop marks could be what's called contracted scars, or box scars... A quick image search yields similar results to what we see in the pictures, but again, they're all different, if they're takeing tissue samples, and again, I would expect consistency.

This is what you think explains the scoop marks. Sorry, but no. Just as a fire injury might look similar to a chemical burn, it doesn't make them come from the same thing. Even a single type of scarring, doesn't rule out that it came from what the people report. The scoop marks are not just random scoop marks, they are correlated to 'missing time' experiences, visiting dead relatives for 10 hours, driving for 5 hours when it should take a few minutes, etc.

A hernia operation is quite a bit different to putting a small implant in somewhere.

First off, backtrack, you are compounding the logical fallacies you are making. Originally, you claim because they aren't all identical, they are suspect. You have no idea the purpose, background, equipment, conditions, etc---you have no idea why or what they should look like.

Second, you are now attributing implants, scoop marks, and the bruising/scarring to a single thing - implants. No, stop. You are all over the place here. There's also a reason the implants are the LEAST displayed image in the series. I still included them because they are reported a lot. But keep in mind many subjects experience the scoop marks, or the radiation burns (or what appears like), or the scope-shaped bruising/scarring.

These are all different things though. So if you are going to discuss it intelligently, you need to treat it as such. Finding something that goes beyond your understanding with one set of marks left over (after people experience missing time, abductions, whatever) does not then disprove or bring into question the rest of them. Especially with absurd arguments (they don't all look the same so somethings wrong).

We have information reported to us. You are taking unavailable information and speculating on it. Instead of looking at the information we have, you are looking for information we don't have, using it to discredit what we do have. Doesn't compute. Maybe address the fact people thousands of miles away from each other, can end up with the same marks, same attributes, that react differently than normal scarring.

I'm sure a meta-analysis on the types of scars would prove more reliable than a handful of cherry picked ones.

I did the exact same for both sets of pictures. I saved the first ones I saw, posted them.

Not sure what your point is here? Are they all different types of hernia operation scars, showing that they're all different?

Awesome response, now apply it to the cases you are questioning, in parallel.

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

More or less outlined in this post.

What personal experiences I may have or not have had, I wouldn't say, nor would it matter anyway. Should I have an uncle in the intelligence service & on his deathbed he provided me with absolute conclusive proof that there were very certain/specific, truths behind the UFO/Alien topic, and relayed back a long history of events, with new insight explaining why things happened, how they happened, etc---but even though they could provide very certain proofs, they wouldn't allow it to go anywhere else outside the room what good would it be here? What useful insights could it give anyone else? None. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

This is the paradox we've lived with for ~70 years now. ~500 or so whistleblowers have come forward to tell about truths within this topic, about underlying realities, but they have all been ignored or discredited. Instantly attacked for character and credibility. We are willfully blind. It's our fault the subject has remained hidden. The only answer, a very obvious, simple, answer...is: Disclosure. There are dozens of cases, dozens...which are known to have transpired with NASA/USAF/NAVY/ARMY/CIA/DIA/etc--involvement. People witnessed and catalogued the vehicles, they were interviewed by the agencies.

However, whether someone is abducted by (perceived) aliens, sees them zipping around, is allowed to see secret files, watches a real clip of hidden evidence, experienced the elements behind the cover-up first hand, whatever, their personal conviction does nothing to confirm it for other people. They do however present a circumstantial case. Circumstantial cases can provide legal conclusions and legal action. This topic has never been fairly presented in under law. Every attempt has been sidelined by subversive elements, ignored, suppressed, etc

The very fact this happened suggests there is something to this issue they need to keep hidden, for whatever reason they've deemed. They should not have the legal authority to do so. It's gotten out of hand. Past excuses are contradictory to modern realities. The 'Cold War' was often cited reason for deep classification, yet it ended. Before we could breathe, a new threat was invented. The Manufactured War on Terror

You can find the fingerprints of the cover-up towards UFOs/Aliens in the historical record now. Even the most mainstream sources (wiki for instance) notes that Sign, Grudge & Bluebook was a cover-up. They misrepresented data, forced people into lying, disavowing statements, threatened people politically/professionally-while this happened, not all the reports even made it into the study as national security cases were classified under JANAP147. The reasoning to publicly disavow UFOs even cited JANAP147 'We already classify serious cases under that anyway, so who cares about this?'---essentially.

The reason the original UFO studies happened to begin with, was because of public outcry about the issue. There were waves of mass sightings across the US at various time. Numerous solid accounts of UFO sightings, behaving beyond known physics, and even beings operating in & out of crafts.

While the USAF panels took a position to discredit the topic using 'debunkery & mockery throughout mass media, politicians, psychologists & scientists...' the CIA also had assets in every media outlet, while funding National Inquirer & Weekly World News, which further mocked issue blocked from the normal news outlets. Given events would not be reported until months-year after they happened, in tabloids, not only had they ceased to be "news", but they were then attached to 'silly-pages' so taking them seriously brought your sanity into question.

As the very deliberate cover up and distraction happened, then we had an effort to push applied psychology, in the realm of the 'skeptical-science' movement. Skeptic literally mean the opposite, its been co-opted to mean today. Sad indeed. Just a coincidence it happened precisely when the public attack on UFOs started. Just a coincidence it supports all mainstream thinking, and illogically attacks any counter-thought. Just a coincidence James Randi, grandfather (or 'uncle') to the movement, used fraud, by "planting" people to discredit. (Uri Geller later had associations with CIA come to light)

In Conclusion:

It really doesn't matter what made me "wake up" one day. Whether it was an actual event, a history passed on, some insight into a program, or a box of old files, or a deathbed confession. All of these things have been presented before, and the tell-tale bashing of the subject has only derailed any claims made. So we can only reflect on the true, documented events. With a new insight I went back over the entire history (and I still have more to go) but a very apparent coordinated effort comes to light looking at it objectively. The trashed the topic, while burring it, while attacking anyone who pursued it credibly, while mocking all proponents of serious debate. And this socially engineered effect they enacted rippled across the North America, global influence worldwide, supported/mimicked it in every country.

The only solution today is to simply disclose all the remaining files they refuse to open up. To "find" the "lost" files, to put into affidavits the "destroyed" histories. Any court of law could send you to life in prison, even death (in some states) for far less evidence than whats been presented for UFOs/Aliens---yet people treat it as though its a manifested hallucination & thats all its ever been. It's time to put up or shut up, people need to demand disclosure. There are no secrets that could warrant secrecy after 50-70 years. there should be none, in a so called 'free' and 'open' country/society so we have a major cognitive dissonance here. Once you reject that harmful state, a number of realities will open up to you.

The simple answer is disclosure though. Simple.

It's called greed and an unquenchable lust for power. They are blind in their delusions of immortality and playing some kind of God. Consequences are disregarded and we will never get real transparency, ever. If what you say is true then you know what's at stake. Are they even of their own minds anymore? I've noticed some creepy eye issues with some, and many with certain outside affiliations sure seem markedly more stressed than usual even for election season. Chaotic times by any measure. They mock us all but the biggest joke will be on them in the end.

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: southbeach

I have read all of Strieber's materials. And I think his "Communion Papers" book was one of the best, as he was getting more popular, people were sending similar experiences. To be honest, Strieber's account by himself means nothing and its easily dismissed. The reason Hopkins, Mack & Jacob's work is so profound, is because (whether people like to ignore it or not) they did employ probably the best protocols seen in abduction research. They also focused on trends and recurring themes, events, specific details, etc.

Because memories are being suppressed, it makes this topic very contentious. It's easy for people to dismiss it. I still recommend reading his stuff, but not until people finished with the work by the other three. People who are reserved, will not break down their socially-programmed bias until they see something that cannot be rationally explained. It's easier to dismiss Whitley because he approached it so many ways. Not to knock his researcher either, but the trio have a little more clout together.

The biggest problem with this kind of research, is it appears the ETs are implanting a memory of very wonderful, spiritual Aliens, who bring humans on board for great emotional and spiritual journeys. What the trio noticed, was that there were very traumatic memories beneath those, once accessed, everything was available. It came back as a flood of information, and they would then realize the 'love-peace-unity' stuff was a cover. Some people never get beyond that though. I think the reason the trio hit on it early on, is because they had more than a few who had seen psychiatrists/psychologists, (as well as Mack, a professor in the field) were aware there were emotional trauma (PTSD) so they pursued it until it surfaced. There are a few researchers who are happy with whatever answer given, and indeed, there is a problem with this research in that respect. The fact they had repeated, unsolicited key elements, across the board from a variety of people, some witnessed and recalled without hypnosis, lends much greater credibility.

Awsome PROFESSIONAL thread OP....many thanks.

There are many different Groups involved in abducting humans and hundreds of millions of people disappear every year....first ask yourself why they would need to bring you home or implant cover memories?

The bringing home doesnt happen for millions every year....so really abductees who are still here to talk to us are a small very valuable minority.

The screen memories are in some cases used as a form of anesthesia.

We are not suppossed to remember abductions with some groups....it is very bad karma because for some reason its a priority for them to have us not remember and if they are sure we do remember everything I believe even some of the good groups might take you because of some rule.

To the earlier poster.....the languages WERE a GLOBAL ONE but a set of Nibiru caused global displacement waves washed off all land masses and scattered global humanity to the 4 corners and with no resources and infrastructre and medicine the very few suriviors were nearly wiped completely.....and many concurrent languages evolved setting a geographiclly structured smokescreen over the fact there was an earlier ONE GLOBAL LANGUAGE like English is now.

The scenes of Global Catastrophe shown by some groups to many Abductees are simply information on what is nearly due,another Nibiru passage.There are many books and videos descibing this, some done dating back hundreds of years........but its an issue MSM will never carry.

Some Groups take Genetic material to keep as a safeguard to replace Humanity should Nibirus passage wipe us completely or to near completion.

There are as many different stories as there are races.

a reply to: one4all

And now we have more of why no one takes any of this seriously. Thanks for that.

What we have here are great questions, questions created by events and people and evidence. Questions are good.

We also have people discussing possibilities to answer these questions, possibilities are good.

Then here you come talking about this stuff like you have front row seats to the truth and going of a tangent like some kinda alien insider. You look like and make people asking the questions look like wackadoos by association.

There's two sides of extremes, the debunkers who just deny without reason, and the crazy who just blurt out whole bizarre paradigms as if it's fact and expect it to do anything but make them look completely insane.

We have questions, very good questions, backed by evidence, that deserve to be treated with and looked into with seriousness and respect.

So let's leave the paradigms out, and stick to the evidence and the questions that evidence presents.

I'm comfortable with I don't know on some things, can we not go the way of religion and fill the gaps where knowledge is lacking with make believe? Please? I'd rather uncover the truth, not make one up and present it as fact.

I have a long time woman friend who has been abducted numerous times in her life. She says she has never seen any military people, but only the small humanoids. She says they have a program whatever it is and to them it is very important. I would presume so important that they don't bother asking for permission first, or they are obviously socially inept and don't behave in an acceptable way towards others not themselves. They have used her without consent, and use all sorts of inept ways to gain cooperation.
Just some of what I have been told.

a reply to: boncho

good thread furry. will chk out the links and start researching this subject myself, for i have a radiation burn mark on my left hand but the memory of whence it came has been zapped and i have reason to believe that i have been programmed to some end which i do not know

a reply to: boncho

The debate with Budd Hopkins between Mack is a perfect analysis and example of how the same events, the same happenings, lead to two different interpretations. Does it make the events any less real? No. Does it change the reliability of the data collected? No.

Here's a crux; the reliability of the data is where we should be looking. Like I mentioned, Hopkins was only interested in the one narrative and dismissed the rest. That naturally creates an impression of uniformity. It's like carrots at the supermarket; we'd think they all grow straight and 'carroty' whereas really we never see the pitted, crooked ones.

Hopkins and Jacobs went that way and actively accepted accounts of 'evil doctor aliens' and rejected all the positive ones alongside those that didn't conform to their narrative. You have to consider this when you opt to accept their narrative as plausible. Jacobs has affirmed this on numerous occasions and continues to do so to this day. He hasn't conceded a 'foul' with the 'Emma' case and that's quite a red flag against his capacity for self-reflection and, yes, even ethics.

With regards to the implants, scars and injuries? Have you noticed how clumsy and rough they look to our modern eyes? A good medical team can be in and out of our bodies using key-hole surgery and they 'glue' up the incision. It's possible to do invasive surgery without leaving a scar - my dad's been there. Blood banks use fatter needles than doctors giving us inoculations and neither leave obvious scars; in most cases it's a small hole that fades in a day. In the case of our speculative aliens, their best work seems out-of-date and currently 1-2 decades behind us. Does that evidence correlate to the narrative of an advanced intelligence with the ability to cross the species gap and bend time and space?

Another thing that bothers me is how none of the abductee researchers were qualified in the field of medicine - unless we include Dr Leir the ex-podiatrist. This means they weren't able to differentiate a syringe mark from a parasite's puncture hole. They weren't able to judge the age of a scar or tell a chicken pock from a 'scoop.' They didn't have the ability to identify a functional fantasist from a person who may have had a personality disorder. Whilst I certainly do not dismiss all the abductees as mentally ill, they would be guaranteed to be in the samples to some unknown percentage. Do you know what I mean?

A sample of a 100 people will include a number of people with personality disorders, brain lesions etc. How would Cannon, Jacobs, Hopkins et al identify them when they had no medical background at all? Tommy Bullard counted 1700 individuals across a dozen or so researchers in the mid-90s. What percentage of 1700 may have had issues? Mack would have known, but his narrative has been dismissed already; he was too naive and gullible to the 'screen memories.'

Guess what? I don't reject the abductee claims and I'm not trying to debunk it all either. You're saying the evidence is pretty tight and that different pillars interlock to form a stable structure. It *looks* that way because it's been made to look that way. I'm saying it isn't tight and there's no stability in the structure. I'd even argue that you're drifting into the liminality zone where anti-structure holds sway and the one-eyed man is king.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: one4all

And now we have more of why no one takes any of this seriously. Thanks for that.

What we have here are great questions, questions created by events and people and evidence. Questions are good.

We also have people discussing possibilities to answer these questions, possibilities are good.

Then here you come talking about this stuff like you have front row seats to the truth and going of a tangent like some kinda alien insider. You look like and make people asking the questions look like wackadoos by association.

There's two sides of extremes, the debunkers who just deny without reason, and the crazy who just blurt out whole bizarre paradigms as if it's fact and expect it to do anything but make them look completely insane.

We have questions, very good questions, backed by evidence, that deserve to be treated with and looked into with seriousness and respect.

So let's leave the paradigms out, and stick to the evidence and the questions that evidence presents.

I'm comfortable with I don't know on some things, can we not go the way of religion and fill the gaps where knowledge is lacking with make believe? Please? I'd rather uncover the truth, not make one up and present it as fact.

Pardon my frankness but you are exremely presumptiive and have some type of overinflated self-image of yourself being some type of Overseer...lol.....I will not waste commentary on your post.

I have had multiple Abductions by different Groups.

Five different Races in total were represented during these events.

Humans wearing Blue One-piece Unifoms in a LARGE POWEFULL Military Ship....Telepathic Human weaing a white Jesus like flowing robe....Tall Greys.....Short Cloned Greys.....short humanoid Ewok looking brown robed Race.All to some degrees Humanoid.

You should think before you post.


FYI the Vast majority of online abductee info is bunk because it is artificially generated and DESIGNED to contain 1/2 truths as bait......I could name 100 things legitamate abductions have in common and most are not discussed in full and in correct context.

Some Abductees,like me, remember COMPLETE CONVERSATIONS that were suppossed to be forgotten,have complete memories.

You let you doubts and reservations drown your silly arse in the coming Global Displacement Event .....but everyone else should proceed with their leaning curves at speeds suiting them not you.

Link Removed by Admin

a reply to: boncho

I get your 'anger' at being 'debunked'. But the truth is you are not a scientist, you do not know why we are constrained to visit only those systems in our Local Group, and you do not really understand (and mostly, no one does), just how 'quarantined' we really are here, on Earth, in the Milky Way.

All you have presented are 'stories'. No proof. Just innuendo. Scoop marks? Artifacts found in the body? Those aren't even evidence, since they are explained quite well by conventional medical procedures.

What are you really trying to show? You are rambling on with very long presentations and using argument by experts as a proof of your thesis, whatever that is. Just show one bit of conclusive 'evidence'. Too much talking isn't proof of anything.

Good luck in your quest, though.

a reply to: one4all

If you've been abducted you've seen what they want you to see, with small glimpses of truth at best.

If I take your claim of abduction as truth, it still means nothing for you knowing the truth of alien abductions.

There's whole bunches of people just like you, with different stories, and different experiences, with some of the same and different aliens.

So when you come on here talking about what, why, how and who like you "KNOW" the facts, you're a fool.

If you came on with, "I've had experiences, memories of abductions, these are the things I experienced during these abductions, that lead me to believe this" your words would have more weight to me.

But no, instead, you think you're somehow that one special alien insider who knows the truth, just like every single other "alien insider" with different or conflicting stories.

I've little doubt abductions occur, I've little doubt there may be different alien species.

What I doubt is people claiming they know the full scoop.

Claiming you've been abducted isn't what makes you sound crazy. It's speaking on the inner workings of, and knowledge of aliens as if you're some kind of authority on the subject, which is silly, because in any alien abduction, you are by definition, not in a position of control.

Personally it seems to me, you all have conflicting experiences with some consistencies for a reason. The sooner you realize the aliens are most likely purposely doing it this way the sooner we have a chance of figuring out what's really going on. Assuming these experience are what they seem to be in the first place.

There's a clear and obvious deception going on if this is real. If you think you know the truth, you're most likely wrong, because as an abductee you're not in a position of authority to know it.

Many an abductee's life has been destroyed believing the lies told to them by their captors. Whole bunch of trickery going on.

Then again maybe those lives where destroyed cause there were no aliens in the first place. Hard to say.

But if you're truly an abductee, do all abductees and yourself a favor, question the authenticity of what your captors allow you to see and know.

I can't wait til more abductees start questioning what their captors show them or tell them. "So here I was taken from my home, and this beautiful alien chick showed me around her ship. They talked to me about how saddened they were about humanity and the wars and our nuclear bombs, how they wish we could learn love and peace like them so they could embrace us as brothers. Of course I didn't believe one lick of it. There's full of #, and there's full of #."

a reply to: Puppylove

Wish I could give you more stars. You make so many good points I don't know where to start. Thanks for the level headed post.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: one4all

If you've been abducted you've seen what they want you to see, with small glimpses of truth at best.

If I take your claim of abduction as truth, it still means nothing for you knowing the truth of alien abductions.

There's whole bunches of people just like you, with different stories, and different experiences, with some of the same and different aliens.

So when you come on here talking about what, why, how and who like you "KNOW" the facts, you're a fool.

If you came on with, "I've had experiences, memories of abductions, these are the things I experienced during these abductions, that lead me to believe this" your words would have more weight to me.

But no, instead, you think you're somehow that one special alien insider who knows the truth, just like every single other "alien insider" with different or conflicting stories.

I've little doubt abductions occur, I've little doubt there may be different alien species.

What I doubt is people claiming they know the full scoop.

Claiming you've been abducted isn't what makes you sound crazy. It's speaking on the inner workings of, and knowledge of aliens as if you're some kind of authority on the subject, which is silly, because in any alien abduction, you are by definition, not in a position of control.

Personally it seems to me, you all have conflicting experiences with some consistencies for a reason. The sooner you realize the aliens are most likely purposely doing it this way the sooner we have a chance of figuring out what's really going on. Assuming these experience are what they seem to be in the first place.

There's a clear and obvious deception going on if this is real. If you think you know the truth, you're most likely wrong, because as an abductee you're not in a position of authority to know it.

Many an abductee's life has been destroyed believing the lies told to them by their captors. Whole bunch of trickery going on.

Then again maybe those lives where destroyed cause there were no aliens in the first place. Hard to say.

But if you're truly an abductee, do all abductees and yourself a favor, question the authenticity of what your captors allow you to see and know.

I can't wait til more abductees start questioning what their captors show them or tell them. "So here I was taken from my home, and this beautiful alien chick showed me around her ship. They talked to me about how saddened they were about humanity and the wars and our nuclear bombs, how they wish we could learn love and peace like them so they could embrace us as brothers. Of course I didn't believe one lick of it. There's full of #, and there's full of #."

I have as others have experienced being in a normal state in an anesthestised state in a mid-zone state,so you are as you seem to usually be presumptiopus to assume anything,you are only in a position to humbly ask questions,you are "green".....lol.

I do not care what you accept as truth or what you believe....what you care matters only to you.

No there arent "bunches of people just like me"....lol...you really are a green disinfo-type huh?....lol.Yup there are a bunch of different Races abducting a "bunch" of different people ....but.....lol....very few are "just like me"......you are laughable .


I care about what you doubt as much as I care about what you consider truth....bupkiss...nada. nothing....zero...zilch....


You are overlooking the obvious fact most people who come to ATS accept as status quo......everyone lives in their own paradigm and we "choose" to come together in small groups of like minded people to maintain the reality we have all chosen.

No one is on here trying to force change ....except you.....lol........we are all here exchanging our 100% truths and when you challenge one you challenge the integroity of all, which by proxy directly reflects of course upon you pesonally.....isolating you as a source of unneeded dischord.....not adding nor deleting from the conversation simply agitating it.

People that know more than you ,like myself and other abductees...have the "full scoop" ......you idiot.....you are simply disadvantaged data-wise and are whiny about it.Oppositionally defiant....lol.....like a kid.

I dont "sound crazy"...lol....do you have your little disinfo Handbook in your lap right now because that was textbook....lol.....I am an "authority" on the subject Lobsang...I was taken multiple times and was able to excercise free-will during some of my abductions and also to retain full memories.

We dont have "conflicting experiences" you dum-dum.....we have INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCES.....smarten up.....

Yes those INDIVIDUAL experiences do in fact show patterns of consistancies and inconsistancies...CONSISTANT with there being multiple different Groups and Races completing abductions for different and in some cases paallel reasons,with paralell situational dynamics which in most cases are directly related to physical technology based dynamics.

Abductees lives are destoyed by Governments and individuals who fight to suppress and discombobulate the truth..............our Governments cannot PROTECT US AND STOP THE ABDUCTIONS so they REFUSE TO AKNOWLEDGE THEM....Abductees should have immediate and intensive care and treatment given to them post-abduction.....instead they are treated worse than criminals.

Dont wory about anyone doing favors because you have none to offer ....lol....Lobsang listen closer.....all Abductees are doing Humanity a favor.....because they cumulatively force a status quo change which has been intentionlly impeded for Centuries.


Disclosure is OVER now.....LMAO....this is about ACCEPTANCE NOW.....lol.

There are no special abilities or gifts which abductees posess.....lol....these are regular people in every way...farrrr from perfect......most with Illnesses and average defects......and they dont get returned home cured....lol....everyone is treated differently....imagine landing on Earth....lol.....if you met the Chineese and Russians and Americans and North Koreans you would have quite different experiences but all of them would be considered "contact with Humanity".....LMAO....enjoy.


www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: one4all

There's a difference between experience and knowledge. The problem is you can't tell the difference.

You speak as if you have knowledge where only experience can exist.

Any interaction you've had with any being, human, alien or otherwise is limited by your perception. You've assuming we believe you, had experience with aliens where you perceived things. What you think you know is limited by your experience.

Once again my issue is you try to give yourself more authority than is reasonable.

If as you say you are an abductee then your exposure to the inner workings of aliens is limited by that perspective.

Therefore how can you know what's truly what when it comes to the aliens themselves?

Also I'd like you to clarify what you mean by overheard and remembered things you believe you weren't supposed to.

I'd like to understand how that works.

As for Abductees deserving to be taken seriously and get the help they need I'm a firm believer of that, same as any rape or torture victim.

Being a rape or torture victim gives the raped or tortured person no omniscient insight into the life and motivations of their attacker outside their experience however. They might overhear a few things, but still overall pretty much clueless of the rest of said attackers life, motivations, goals and dreams. They know what was done to them, what was said to them, and what was overheard. But as they aren't mind readers they know not why they were told something, if it's true, and whether they were truly not meant to overhear or remember something.

Believe it or not I'm not your enemy. I'm in the middle between debunkers and experiencers. Trying to bring rational thought to the discussion as it's sorely needed.

All I'm asking from you is to speak from experience, from perspective, and not claim knowledge you cannot possible possess. You've had experiences at most, that's it. Five people can have the exact same experience and each have a completely different perspective on it.

Tell us what you saw, what you experienced, and how it made you feel, what you feel it means. That's perspective. You keep trying to speak from a position of omniscience. That's the issue.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: one4all

There's a difference between experience and knowledge. The problem is you can't tell the difference.

You speak as if you have knowledge where only experience can exist.

Any interaction you've had with any being, human, alien or otherwise is limited by your perception. You've assuming we believe you, had experience with aliens where you perceived things. What you think you know is limited by your experience.

Once again my issue is you try to give yourself more authority than is reasonable.


If as you say you are an abductee then your exposure to the inner workings of aliens is limited by that perspective.

Therefore how can you know what's truly what when it comes to the aliens themselves?

Also I'd like you to clarify what you mean by overheard and remembered things you believe you weren't supposed to.

I'd like to understand how that works.

As for Abductees deserving to be taken seriously and get the help they need I'm a firm believer of that, same as any rape or torture victim.

Being a rape or torture victim gives the raped or tortured person no omniscient insight into the life and motivations of their attacker outside their experience however. They might overhear a few things, but still overall pretty much clueless of the rest of said attackers life, motivations, goals and dreams. They know what was done to them, what was said to them, and what was overheard. But as they aren't mind readers they know not why they were told something, if it's true, and whether they were truly not meant to overhear or remember something.

Believe it or not I'm not your enemy. I'm in the middle between debunkers and experiencers. Trying to bring rational thought to the discussion as it's sorely needed.

All I'm asking from you is to speak from experience, from perspective, and not claim knowledge you cannot possible possess. You've had experiences at most, that's it. Five people can have the exact same experience and each have a completely different perspective on it.

Tell us what you saw, what you experienced, and how it made you feel, what you feel it means. That's perspective. You keep trying to speak from a position of omniscience. That's the issue.

I have experience and knowledge in that order.

You are trying to spin-doctor and I will no let you achieve it....lol.....you are trying to parse all states of awareness together and apply this to all experinces to support your intentionally flawed perspective....and lol...I will not let you.

Not"if as you say" you are an abductee...slappy.....I AM an abductee.....lol....you are really new at this I see.....lol.

I was able to excercise free-will in some cases and I freely interacted with Crew and had completely open and honest conversations.You are screwed trying to approach things this way buddy....like I said I have experience with multiple states of awareness connected to different phases of the abduction events as I experienced them. So I am afraid you are SOL pal because I have sequentially patterned chronological evolving states of awareness which validate in an ongoing real-time manner my evolving experiences..............you are looking for and counting on there being a "fracture" you could widen.....lol.....ask questions from the humble perspective you own and be genuinely nice....it will help you learn more.

To clarify to you......the interctions I was freely allowed to experience occured for 2 reasons....one has to do with me as an individual and was actioned BY THEM and one has to do with the abduction SOP actioned by this particular Group which dictates no one remembers anything.....I slipped through this hurdle naturally and with some help from a Friend.I was taken by 2 different Groups.


I had interactions with 3 different Races present in one room and 5 Races within the single experience itself....so NOPE.....there was no "masking themselves to me"....they were simply all clearly different and ALL VIEW US DIFFERENTLY
......they are also individual in terms of both Races and alliegences....with many overlapping and interwoven agendas.


I know from my own experiences and from a decade of online researching that few of the TRUEST STORIES ever hit MAINSTREAM .....and I also know from reading thousands and thousands of pages of data from a constellation of sources that the most well versed and well intended reseachers who put their entire lives into working to educate the masses....have found the truths within the thousands upon thousands of the most valuable ABDUCTEE CASE-FILES which they sequester from us all by client/professional privilage and by privacy agreements.......you see... WE .....can never look for and find the simple unavoidable patterns within the abductee case-files which hold them out and illuminate the single truths we all must share.

At the end of the day...Abductees know who has been taken....but non-Abductees must CHOOSE who and what to believe.....so its a matter of believing a HUMAN BEINGS WORD OR BELIEVING ONLY IN EMPIICAL TANGIBLE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.

LOL....you have bad luck because even within the Abduction scenario there are anomolies like me.....lol....and remember I can only represent MY OWN EXPERIENCES WITH SPECIFIC GROUPS AND RACES......a very limited perspective in terms of ALL ABDUCTION SCENARIOS of which I believe their are an uncountable number........but one far above "normal"...or you for example....it simply is what it is.

By the way ,FYI,many of these "Races" arent as smart as people give them credit for being.....your average Human has far more unrealised potentials than many of these Races currently optimally realise themselves.

Some are "Crafty"...some LIE CONSTANTLY...some are deluded like religous zealots....some are basiclly clueless overall......some are like us ....some are nicer than us.....some it seems eat us use us and abuse us...nd we should remediate these Races with PREDJUDICE IMMEDIATLY......and stop making stupid deals with them......today using online group-tasking we have much more potential than many many of the Groups we now think are smarter than us simply because we havent been familiarised with their technology which is very simple and is nature based.

What I am saying is that Earth Humanity could potentially put themselves in a position to KICK THE ARSES of the MAJORITY of Groups we now fear.....WE ARE MUCH SMARTER.....we have just been suppressed and contolled by TPTB for Centuries.....but if we were to put Global Humanities combined cerebral and imaginative and creative powers to use we would soon leave Earth and enter the Galactic and Universal Communities as an ESTABLISHED POWER ....capable of asseing its right to survive.

Lol....you simply dont undestand how POWEFULL WE ACTUALLY ARE IN A UNIVERSAL SENSE AS INDIVIDUALS COMING TOGETHER INTO A HUMANITAIAN COLLECTIVE... because you havent been exposed to many of the right kind of Abductee accounts.

We actually SIMULATE a "hive mind" when we as sanctioned Universally recognised Individual entities of creation and manifestation come together and "agree" to share a specific status quo or belief or reality.........we SIMULATE small "hive mind" mentalities and then we try to GROW and EXPAND them exponentially if possible.

When we each recognise our individual identities and recognise our full powers of creative manifestation via combined belief projections ....then we will understand that we can truly do anything we choose to do....and we could join Universal Humanity and we could experience the innumerable Races scattered throughout the Universe.

We could do this in DECADES not CENTURIES.

a reply to: Maverick7

1st off, there's no "anger" from me about debunking, I am a long time debunker until I realized the failed logic in the effort. Just as I see it in your post. "I'm not a scientist" -you don't know anything that I am. On top of that our scientific establishment has a very narrow and limited allowable worldview which has also been influenced heavily from military controls over information in the last 70 years, beyond that we've not discovered the secrets of the universe so the reality is you don't realize the arbitrary value of distance. An introductory course into quantum physics should flesh that out a little for you.

The reality is that our reality has been shaped by our worldview, by politics, religion and bias and most importantly corporate and military corporate interest, the antithesis to scientific discovery. Science flourishes free from bias, it cannot with outward pressures affecting the results of study. Ever heard of double blind studies? The problem we have today, the crisis in science, is that our limited worldview has prevented us from even gauging certain topics properly, or outright ignoring, belittling or attacking, destroying careers over anything challenging the many prevailing world views.

All you have presented are 'stories'. No proof. Just innuendo. Scoop marks? Artifacts found in the body? Those aren't even evidence, since they are explained quite well by conventional medical procedures.

No, they aren't. If you read the linked article by John E Mack you'd have already realized that, which is why I informed those who seek to debunk, to debunk his presentation. Just remember you are not only calling Mack into question, you are calling Harvard, the institution, and challenging the ethics and credibility of the institution. Mack was tenured when he approached this subject, he was also investigated by Harvard (for challenging the world view) but he was also cleared.

But, you are also just simply wrong, marks, scars & bruises are indeed physical evidence, and they are compounded by circumstantial cases with memories (not all remembered by hypnosis) and on top of that there are cases where surgery indeed is an explanation, like the woman who was missing ovaries, or a gentleman with radiological damage to his lungs that could've only been done by weapons grade nuclear material.

Circumstantial evidence, with trace physical evidence is enough for legal decisions and legal findings. If it were taken seriously this would be presented and investigated by scientific bodies without prejudice. We know that can't happen because the last time these types of things were presented, SIGN, GRUDGE, BLUEBOOK, etc--there was an official cover up, where the scientists involved ignored empirical evidence and recommended debunking, ridicule and attacking those who recognize it for what it was. (or what it might be) ---basically anyone bringing legitimacy to it.

The caveat I provided is the information could be compromised, but then you have to indulge in an equally grand conspiracy. That researchers were able to cook up physical traces of identical marks, bruising, scarring, missing organs, etc---or stories therein, among thousands of people, some only identified by polling & survey. The scope of such is actually seemingly less feasible than a government, shown to have participated in cover-ups, with endless budgets, simply continue the cover up. Whatever the actual phenomena might be.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Here's a crux; the reliability of the data is where we should be looking. Like I mentioned, Hopkins was only interested in the one narrative and dismissed the rest

I had a much better reply typed out but I lose it. But yes, basically that's what I say in the OP. The evidence, is the only thing at the end of the day, which can confirm or deny. The problem however, is that our current world-view and the way we treat this subject and many others is to discredit the evidence at all costs, then weigh the value of it.

So if you wish to approach it in that sense, by all means. One only has to look at the scientific establishment to see the result therein.

The Current Reproducibility Crisis in Science

Nature: The Crisis

Scientific Regress

My main point is that if you seek to debunk something, you will. If you seek to lie or hide truths, you can. If you wish to deceive yourself as well as millions of others, it's not only possible, it's done routinely!

So the argument against this phenomena, is that the researchers themselves are all guilty of this. Yet, we have a very systemic bias working against this topic and many others, and the evidence for this is everywhere. It's in the history books now. It can't even be argued (not rationally or reasonably) against.

So whenever we have contention in the results of research, whether its formal or informal, whether its stringent or lax, is that there was some kind of deception or self-deception. And people will pick apart each of the respective researchers in these cases, and nitpick, and argue very detailed points against, but it seems just simply recognizing what they are working against, and whats working against them (a well formed, long-established bias for truth), for some reason people don't even want to mention or address it.

As in the OP, it comes down to the reliability in the work. The phenomena still exists though. Instead of attacking the work, attack the phenomena. It only takes a single case. 1 case. That's it. One reliable case. Or multiple cases where they've received identical scarring thousands of miles away, which coincides with physical disappearance, or 'missing time'.

A sample of a 100 people will include a number of people with personality disorders, brain lesions etc. How would Cannon, Jacobs, Hopkins et al identify them when they had no medical background at all?

Again, comes down to their work. They've stated numerous times with numerous clients that they've already visited psychologists, and the psychologists ruled these things out. Plus Mack was involved in a lot of Hopkin's cases as well. I can't recall for certain but I think one tried to get his subjects to psychologists to rule anything out first. Or took on those who already had that done.In a number of cases, the abductees were psychologists.

This and the criticism against the implants are just easy ways to dismiss this altogether, that's the overall aim when addressing this topic. I can understand why. Even giving it a proper once over, a suspension of doubt, it's already caused me incredibly personal distress. If mentioned to others, likely professional distress. Something they mention about their clients, all experience the same thing. Mention the phenomenon to their wife or husband, risk a divorce and losing their kids instantly.

This is my entire point. We've bred an atmosphere where if this were a real phenomena, it could go undetected because the first inclination everyone has, is to attack it or mislabel it as something else. That is what truly bothers me. Investigation into something should never draw so much ire or reactionary measures, but for some reason it does.

Blood banks use fatter needles than doctors giving us inoculations and neither leave obvious scars; in most cases it's a small hole that fades in a day. In the case of our speculative aliens, their best work seems out-of-date and currently 1-2 decades behind us. Does that evidence correlate to the narrative of an advanced intelligence with the ability to cross the species gap and bend time and space?

You basically just stated you know more than a species that can cross the species gap and bend space and time. You know so much about their procedures that they wouldn't leave the types of scars and marks they do. Truly take a moment to comprehend that. Also, the scars reported reportedly do not function like normal scarring. So we've also invented an entire new medical condition with the paragraph as well. Hurra!

This is the logic breakdown Im speaking about. We make excuses, and to remove one problem, which is generally quite cohesive, we attempt to invent 30 new problems. The real problem is we just ignore the entire topic. In a conscious and caring society if we dismissed the original claim, we'd then have to address each additional one. Then you find stuff like one case of missing organs or body parts with no sign of surgery. By then it all breaks down.

And again, I do not outright eliminate deception as a possibility, but the deception we are talking about is so widespread and accomplished, it begins to seem less likely that a few researchers could pull of an elaborate con, than a military and establishment with a vested interest in covering up a subject (which has unlimited funds).

Not only that, we also have to admit that Harvard, after investigating Mack, decided it was okay for him to go around implanting false memories in people, that they had no problem with it. Alternatively, it makes sense they'd keep an eye on his research and pass that back (or outside monitoring) would keep tabs on whatever the phenomena is. Also, to cap it off, everyone assumes Aliens/ETs, but there could be Aliens/ETs present, in time-travel, inter-dimensional, or even meta-physical/spiritual/MATRIX -type solution to the problem.

The problem I have with the problem, is that we do not even allow it to be recognized as a problem. We attack it so it cannot even manifest itself, while others suffer whatever effects they very adamantly claim is happening to them.

originally posted by: boncho
a reply to: Kandinsky

Here's a crux; the reliability of the data is where we should be looking. Like I mentioned, Hopkins was only interested in the one narrative and dismissed the rest

My main point is that if you seek to debunk something, you will. If you seek to lie or hide truths, you can. If you wish to deceive yourself as well as millions of others, it's not only possible, it's done routinely!

I'm glad you made that statement.

It's why I often dismiss debunking and find little value in it when applied to so many important subjects, though at times it is useful when applied correctly. (It's like a disease and has been way overused as a weapon of mass destruction on the internet in my viewpoint. Lol!)

One can debunk something out of the ordinary, mysterious or supernatural until the cows come home but it doesn't prove that what is being debunked is erroneous or not authentic. Trying to force what is seen and experienced as non-ordinary to fit ordinary, traditional (very limited) paradigms = trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Just my two copper cents!

Good thread!!

a reply to: boncho

Been away for a few days in bonny Scotland.

You basically just stated you know more than a species that can cross the species gap and bend space and time. You know so much about their procedures that they wouldn't leave the types of scars and marks they do

You know what point I was making so let's not get to hand-waving. You're making the case that hybrids are amongst us and that the abduction experience is veridical to the reports. The technology of the proposed aliens allows them to appear in homes without leaving any traces. Abductees say they get 'floated' into the rooms aboard the 'spaceships.' You say yourself they can cross 'the species gap.' All of this and you don't find it curious how the purported scars are/were resulting from operations less advanced than our own techniques?

This is the logic breakdown Im speaking about. We make excuses, and to remove one problem, which is generally quite cohesive, we attempt to invent 30 new problems. The real problem is we just ignore the entire topic.

Who's really demonstrating a 'logic breakdown' here? Who's ignoring what? Where exactly is the 'cohesion?'

I'll restate a point that seems lost on you; I've read the books and listened to the researchers in interviews. I've read the papers of McNally and Appelle etc. I've looked at all sides whereas you *appear* to have selected Hopkins/Jacobs as the only truth-speakers and relegated all others as mistaken, wrong or 'ignoring' the issue. I say *appear* not to be rude, just basing it on first impressions.

Have you heard of John Velez? He was a colleague of Hopkins and the first webmaster of the Intruders Foundation site. His interest was driven by his own experiences as an abductee. He reported that abductions had almost ceased by the 2000s and the site wasn't getting many new reports. Bueche was the same; he was a colleague of Mack (an abductee) and also noted how reports had dwindled by the 2000s. These are in conflict with the narratives offered by Hopkins and Jacobs (especially Jacobs).

The reason I mention this is to highlight, again, the lack of consensus about what, why, when and hows in this area. If you've been able to reasonably discount all others aside from Hopkins/Jacobs, you've done better than everyone else...apart from Jacobs/Hopkins.

Reflectivity.