Why do you got to church?

If you found out that their really was no heaven or hell would you still keep on practicing your faith? Is it just me or are people only being faithful because hell exist and they have the fear of living in torture for all eternity. During mideveal times the only reason people flocked to cathedrals was to save them selves not during in life but in the after life , hoping to live for all of time in harmony.

Would you even bother going to church and do their activities if their really was not a "Hell" or "Heaven" ?


Please tell me weather you agree or disagree with my theory, thanks for reading.

what IS your theory? Mostly, people goto church as a moral compass. If there is a God or not, wouldnt you agree that it is good to learn not to steal, be greedy, screw around on your wife, kill or hurt people? I do.

Also, having that nagging voice in the back of your head if a good thing. When your not a church, that thing called your conscious. Thats what church teaches.

MY opinion says that the majority of church bashers are lazy. thats all. they are to lazy to wake up early on sunday and get dressed up. Its not a debate at all. Its purely laziness. By the way, I dont attend, hevent in years. Why? Because I hate waking up on sundays. Theres nothing wrong with it. I get aggrivatedwhen I hear people slam on it.

Remember, religion is based on faith. Blind faith. Also, chew on this. There isnt one scientist alive who can explain how we were created. There are plenty of THEORIES but no facts. Never will be. You can take all the elements that go into a single blade of grass. Put them all in a test tube, add the right amount of sunlight, and you will not grow it. All of the most brilliant minds have not been able to produce so much as a single blade of grass. To me, thats the proof. But thats just my opinion......

From a spiritual viewpoint, agree that going to Church serves as a spiritual and moral compass for one's life. The Church is a focus point for the worship of God and sharing such worship with fellow believers.

From a purely logical standpoint, no living soul can tell us if there is or is not indeed a heaven and/or hell. No mechanical or scientific confirmation one way or another. It's just faith, faith in believing.

Now such faith is not blind. It is logical. If there isn't a heaven or hell and as such, there is no God, then, what have you got to lose ? The moral compass is still there. Now, what if there was a God and there was indeed a heaven or hell ? Burn in hell.

Now, logically, care to chance it ??

I agree with you Fox. I believe that duing the Middle Ages, most people went to church out of fear of Hell, and that without the concept of Hell there would be much less attendance. Today however, I would have to say the main reasons for going include the sense of belonging to a group, tradition, and social accepedness.

When I first realized that I had few beliefs in common with Christians even though I was one myself, I had a hard time switching to Sikhism which more accurately portrayed my beliefs. I had a hard time because my entire family is Christian, and I felt like I would be shunned in a way if they knew. Many other Christian friends I have admitted that they don't have any Christian beliefs, but only go to Church and remain Christian because their friends and family are.

As a small side note, I remember reading about how the church in the middle ages supposedly changed the bible around. Do you think that the concept of hell was invented by the church to suppress any unrest and manipulate its followers? Its just a question thats always been on my mind. I mean, why would our compassionate God create a place where his 'children' in a sense would be punished for all of eternity? It just doesn't make sense to me.


[edit on 20-1-2005 by zhangmaster]

Some go out of fear. but I know people who don't believe in Hell but still go because church can provide insight or a different view to a person's problems, even if they don't believe. I personally no longer go because a) I'm lazy, but mostly b) I would be a hippocrite in that I have developed a separate set of beliefs, though not un-christian.

Originally posted by spliff4020
what IS your theory? Mostly, people goto church as a moral compass. If there is a God or not, wouldnt you agree that it is good to learn not to steal, be greedy, screw around on your wife, kill or hurt people? I do.

I didn't know that these teachings were exclusive to churches and Christians.

Also, having that nagging voice in the back of your head if a good thing. When your not a church, that thing called your conscious. Thats what church teaches.

It's dogma. You WILL believe this, or you are BAD.

MY opinion says that the majority of church bashers are lazy. thats all. they are to lazy to wake up early on sunday and get dressed up. Its not a debate at all. Its purely laziness.

I'm the minority, in that case. I have no problem "getting dressed up." Hell, my daily wardrobe is suit-and-tie. I wake up at 6:00 every morning - including Sundays. I'm a "church basher," (well, actually, Christian basher) because I simply have no belief in that particular sysem. It's not laziness.

Remember, religion is based on faith. Blind faith.

No, only Christianity, Judaism, Islam - and the other dogmatic faiths out there. Buddhism, for example, isn't based on faith.

also, chew on this. There isnt one scientist alive who can explain how we were created. There are plenty of THEORIES but no facts. Never will be. You can take all the elements that go into a single blade of grass. Put them all in a test tube, add the right amount of sunlight, and you will not grow it. All of the most brilliant minds have not been able to produce so much as a single blade of grass. To me, thats the proof. But thats just my opinion......

Right, and there's not one religion in existence that can explain how we were created... well, maybe they can explain it, but they cannot prove it. There are plenty of THEORIES, but no facts.

Door swings both ways.

Anyvoices feelings, or images that pop in your head are, ifinspirational, from God
, and if bad, or discuraging are from demons. This world is lterally a spiritual warfare that goes on
even though we cant see it, truly.


Why do you tik people commit suicide? Satan knows your weakneses and will play at them forever totry and force yu togive up. Just on Opra a saw an
episode about a young girl who cut her arms because she kept thinking an hearing voices about how hwas a nobody,wrthess.



For me I go to church for my signature which gives you literal grace to fght against evil.



Just a month ago mybrother wa going to get a section 8 house for his kids wo hae been living i basemenrts
teir whole life He went to church to pray for the money he needed to get the place. He needed 831 dllars in oneweek.

On the day they needed the money, he gathered money from friends, his boss, my grandmother, and he had exactly 831 that day to pay the money for the aparment.


this stff does not justhappen, its lterallyfrom God.


He loves all of you to, and is watching all the time, if you would just let him in, I need to work on that too myself because I have week faith too myself somethimes.




peace.

Originally posted by Truth
This world is lterally a spiritual warfare that goes on
even though we cant see it, truly.

So, you can't see it, but you know it's warfare...how?

Why do you tik people commit suicide?

Um, out of desperation and depression, generally.

Satan knows your weakneses and will play at them forever totry and force yu togive up.

"Devil made me do it."

Anyvoices feelings, or images that pop in your head are, ifinspirational, from God

Hearing inspirational voices that aren't really there are no different from hearing discouraging voices that aren't there - you're insane, either way.

Just on Opra a saw an
episode about a young girl who cut her arms because she kept thinking an hearing voices about how hwas a nobody,wrthess.

Right, you saw it on Oprah - a worthless bag of filth. Do you have ANY idea what it feels like to be suicidal, or a self-mutilator? Have you ever had the urge to cut yourself, other than superficially? Is there anybody close to you who has done this? My fiance is a Christian, and she "heard voices," in a way - she has deep scars all over her body from her self-inflicted injuries. She was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Satan didn't cause this - chemical imbalance did. Yes, she is better now - she's no longer suicidal. I didn't pray to any God in order for that to happen. I encourage you to not speak of things you have no understanding of.

For me I go to church for my signature which gives you literal grace to fght against evil.

I don't need to go to a building to have some guy with a book tell me what is right and wrong. I know what is acceptable and what is not.

I am, on the whole, just as sinful (or less) than your average bible-beater.

Just a month ago mybrother wa going to get a section 8 house for his kids wo hae been living i basemenrts
teir whole life He went to church to pray for the money he needed to get the place. He needed 831 dllars in oneweek.

On the day they needed the money, he gathered money from friends, his boss, my grandmother, and he had exactly 831 that day to pay the money for the aparment.

Right. I've been there. I'm still there. I needed $575 in a three day period. I dug up change, and borrowed $50 from a friend. Never uttered a prayer to the sky pixie. I came up with $575.72

this stff does not justhappen, its lterallyfrom God.

Uh huh. I guess God answered the prayer I never said, huh?

Bull#e. Prove it.

He loves all of you to, and is watching all the time, if you would just let him in, I need to work on that too myself because I have week faith too myself somethimes.

"God's watching when I'm doing Number Two? Oh great, I'm a sinner and God's a pervert."

I have no need to accept your God. I'm quite happy with Buddhism, thank you. It's given me what I need. Christianity didn't. I'm glad you've found what works for you, but I don't like your spiel of "this is from God," "this is proof of God" nonsense. Since becoming a Buddhist, I have found more tranquility in my life than I ever did as a Christian. I rarely have periods of "weak faith," because I find there is little to doubt in Buddhist philosophy.

peace.

Namarie.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by LOBO]

Your attitude stinks, and thats it, it just stinks.



Firstly yes the spiritual war is real and it has to do with sin, and how close you get to knowing the father
through Jesus. Ive experienced it mentally and physically worse than ever after recieving communion.



Secondly, yes I thought about suicide a hlaf decade ago, and this was well before I ever heard of jesus. He saved my life from that death and sin which
caused me to feel suicidal.


Thirdly a chemical imbalance is insane.

why?


Because I have an anxiety disorder myself, and pills dd not do the trick, infact studies show they actually cause more depression. chemical imbalance probably comes from our eating habit, but the big medicine corporations get tons of money off of this chemical imbalance by creating something that does not
work, instead of getting to the route of the problem naturally and spiritually.



Your ignorance is amazing. Ive seen so many miracles of God throughout my family alone that I know he exist.



You ca pray to a statue and see where it gets you, but I think you just hate the fact that God has rules that is for our own good and perfection of our spirit that will cause us to not only be obedient to him but have the
exact opposite attitude you have wich is that of a venomous snake. Not you, your attitude.


I hope your wife will be alright.


peace.

Originally posted by Truth
Your attitude stinks, and thats it, it just stinks.

Sticks and stones and crosses.

Firstly yes the spiritual war is real and it has to do with sin, and how close you get to knowing the father
through Jesus. Ive experienced it mentally and physically worse than ever after recieving communion.

You've experienced a war mentally and physically, only you cannot see it happening... right.

Secondly, yes I thought about suicide a hlaf decade ago, and this was well before I ever heard of jesus. He saved my life from that death and sin which
caused me to feel suicidal.

Thinking and attempting are two different things. I attempted suicide AS a Christian, but it's never been a thought to me as a Buddhist.

Thirdly a chemical imbalance is insane.

No, it causes insanity.

Because I have an anxiety disorder myself, and pills dd not do the trick, infact studies show they actually cause more depression.

Wrong, studies show that ANTI-DEPRESSANT pills make disorders such as Bipolar Disorder worse, quite often. Anti-Depressants may or may not help those who are simply depressed, but for those who have mood disorders, anti-psychotics and anti-convulsants (lamactal, seroquel) DO do the trick. At least with Whitney they do, anyway. Oh, but I guess they actually do not, even though they do, because you say so.

chemical imbalance probably comes from our eating habit, but the big medicine corporations get tons of money off of this chemical imbalance by creating something that does not
work, instead of getting to the route of the problem naturally and spiritually.

Who gives a damn where chemical imbalance (that is, in the brain) comes from. And yes, the pharmacies do get a lot of money - because their products do work. If your impression that mood stabilizers do not work is based on personal experience, I'm sorry to inform you that medications work differently for different people. They work with Whitney. I can see it, she can see it - our entire family can see it - but I guess we're all wrong, because YOU say so.

It's undeniable that having a steady spiritual connection to WHATEVER one chooses to worship has a great deal to do with the healing process, but it is NOT the only medium for it.

Your ignorance is amazing. Ive seen so many miracles of God throughout my family alone that I know he exist.

I'm ignorant because I believe differently from you, sure, [sarcasm] I see the logic behind that [/sarcasm].

You ca pray to a statue and see where it gets you,

I'm the ignorant one, am I? I don't "pray" to Siddhartha, dolt - because he was not a god. I'm glad to see that you are such an authority on Buddhism.

You can pray to a dead, Liberal Jew and see where it gets you, and wear a symbol of death across your neck...

Oh, and I will continue, thank you very much. I'm amazed, I've finally found a bible-beater who gives me his permission to follow a faith that I choose.

but I think you just hate the fact that God has rules that is for our own good and perfection of our spirit that will cause us to not only be obedient to him but have the
exact opposite attitude you have wich is that of a venomous snake. Not you, your attitude.

I have no moral problems, if that's what you're referring to. I believe I mentioned it earlier - in my own honest opinion, I follow the "Ten Commandments" more closely than most Christians do, unintentionally! I'll explain, if you like, someday.

My attitude is one of sketpicism. Your attitude is one of conformity. You are happy with your attitude, I am happy with mine. I have merely pointed out why I do not believe in much that is taught by the Bible (praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!). I've also pointed out that faith and prayer are not necessary for the healing process, but they can help - but also, medications can, also (I guess morphine doesn't work, either.)

Personally, I think Christianity is a total crock. You can think what you like (you obviously do, thinking Buddhists "pray to a statue.")

I hope your wife will be alright.

She's fine, now - thanks to the doctors and medication, not God. I appreciate your concern though - if indeed it is anything beyond superficial.


"...good luck with the Apocalypse. Oh, and by the way: you SUCK!"