In the Place of a Burning Bush, a Crown of Thorns

We all know that it was a Crown of Thorns that was placed a top the head of Israel's Prophet-Messiah-King, who if one were a Messianic disciple of Yeshua must have seemed a mockery of everything the Messiah was, a Messiah of peace who was killed for teaching Wisdom and who became the Son of God at his begetting, the Word or Logos who became a man and received the Spirit to pass on to the world.

Thorns represent sin in Genesis 3:18 and later a thorny bush (sineh) is seen burning yet producing no smoke on Mt. Sinai (or Horeb, not important here) by Moses when this bush does not consume and he first talks to God. The last place the Israelites camp at is Abel-Sh•ittim, or the field of thorns, before reaching the Promised Land that Yeshua the warrior would lead them to as a savior as his name implies. And the Tabernacle was made of a thorny acacia plated in gold. Acacia is known for producing smokeless fire.

So when the Crown of Thorns was placed upon the head of the King of kings it became the Crown of crowns rather than its intended insult and any learned Jew would have understood the deeper meaning.

But what the Crown of Thorns really represents is the rays of the sun. You can see the similarities in appearance anytime you can see the sun. The smokeless fire of the sun in the sky has always been central to every religion. The Son had 12 Apostles as the sun has 12 houses or constellations just like Israel has 12 tribes and 1 God.

When the Crown of Thorns is placed on Yeshua the Messiah's head it is done in mockery but by subtlety and interpreting the burning bush story and the way sin is represented by thorns we can see that the Son of God has been crowned in all sin but that sin is now a blazing Crown of Fire and only he who wears the Crown of Fire can forgive sin, and has never left us all we must do is learn his Wisdom, the Spirit of Holyness is our council and the Fire of Pentecost was yet another symbol of God and Wisdom and Stephen mentions to the council in Acts 7:30 "..., in the flame of a burning bush.

Actually one of the most interesting parts of Acts is 7-8 if you have a minute, read it, it says much so quickly. Luke has the unique perspective of being a former pagan and his understanding of the significance of the burning bush shows, as I only recall Luke having the Messiah relate the tale which is odd. Certainly Luke understood the connection between the two better than most Jews, not the disciples and Apostles of the Gospels necessarily but for a Greek, bravo.

a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

Very good. The ark was made at acacia also and covered in gold which would be a representation of flesh/man covered in glory/spirit. Or crown of thorns to crown of the sun.

a reply to: zardust

Yes acacia and gold again, I can't believe I missed that. Thank you.

a reply to: zardust

The OT is littered with examples of Christ, we could go for 100 pages showing them all. Another one, the tabernacle in the wilderness.. The glory of God (His presence) was wrapped in flesh (animal skins).

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: zardust

The OT is littered with examples of Christ, we could go for 100 pages showing them all. Another one, the tabernacle in the wilderness.. The glory of God (His presence) was wrapped in flesh (animal skins).

Yes, I mentioned the Tabernacle because of its being plated in gold (sun,fire) and being made of acacia (thorny bush/shineh on Sinai) I didn't see the need in mentioning the lesser materials of animal skins because it doesn't have a connection to my point specifically but you should elaborate some because I don't see what you are getting at.

The presence of God wrapped in flesh is a very general expression of the faith and less Biblical than you would think. The Word/Logos was the first expression of God and not God but the Son of God and a creation so doesn't communicate well with theology that declares tri equality between Logos/Father/Spirit

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: zardust

The OT is littered with examples of Christ, we could go for 100 pages showing them all. Another one, the tabernacle in the wilderness.. The glory of God (His presence) was wrapped in flesh (animal skins).

That would make for a great thread lets her 5 or 10 or all the 100's even!

I don't care I was just specifically showing the burning bush/crown of thorns connection. I would imagine that more examples exist but apparently I covered the connection between the two things I wanted and it is not attracting a ton of attention so go for it, show the connections.

a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

Sure, the outer portion of the tabernacle, the "tent" part of it was made of animal skins. Exodus 26:1-14

The Holy of Holies was covered in flesh (skins).

a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

I'm going to bed, but a quick one is in Genesis, when Adam and Eve sinned they hid their nakedness with fig leaves. That was man's first attempt at religion (covering himself) and God showed them that He would hide their nakedness Himself by shedding innocent blood. (God killed the animals to make skins to cover their nakedness)

That's one rough example, I'll work on more tomorrow.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

Sure, the outer portion of the tabernacle, the "tent" part of it was made of animal skins. Exodus 26:1-14

The Holy of Holies was covered in flesh (skins).

Sure, I get that but it is that they are both creations and the theology of the Catholic Trinity applies equality to creation as Its Creator and that the Logos/Word is a creation.

That asside excellent example. I am not a typical disciple of the Nazarene I am a neo heretics a heresiodox if you wish. Big fan of the Logos though I just don't see the Trinity being 3=1 when it is not supported by scripture that Father and Son are equal in rank and the opposite is. "I and my Father are one," but "only God is good!" ?

Things I've thought about for a long time and as much as theology denies the Logos himself says a hierarchy exists and the Father is greater than the Son. The Spirit is greater than either preceding all.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

No God did not kill animals. It says that nowhere. It says he gave them garments of skin. The word for garment is unusual and is the same used for Joseph's technicolor dream coat. The garments they received were flesh. They were in their golden state like the two cherubim in the temple. That is the same pattern. The garden is the holy of holies. Adam and Eve are the two cherubim. When male and female are in unity (as the cherubim are one piece) the glory appears in their midst. That glory is the birthing of the son in us. Or out of our holy of holies. Since we are the temple. The expulsion from the garden is birthing into the world of flesh. This the giving of the costs of skin. Or the enfleshing of the son. The glory appearing between the cherubim is the same as the sun sitting in the midst of the zodiac which corresponds to the 12 tribes and their heads as the faces of the cherubim.

a reply to: zardust

That's not true, what gets translated as "skins" is the Hebrew word "owr" and it's the hides of an animal, "leather".

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Correct, but the word garment is what I was talking about.

Owr H5785

And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin H5785 of his face shone while he talked with him.

the word skin can refer to animal and human skin. My point was that the supposed sacrifice of an animal for the skins is not there, anywhere. It keeps getting repeated by many folks, but does not exist. I was then giving my view of that passage. Again there is nothing particular in there that prefers my interpretation, except that it says nothing about killing an animal. I was using the types and patterns that are repeated over and over to back up my assertions. Again nothing explicitly stated.

a reply to: zardust

Interesting side note, the "coat of many colors" is just a "coat of long sleeves" in the DSS Tanakh so a later addition to the story of Joseph that is not original (to the story).

I don't know why but it is true .

a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

I was thinking about what you said about the Holy of Holies being covered in skin representing God becoming flesh and I have to disagree because Christ is not God in the flesh but the Logos of God and was human so unless the Messiah was a literal goat or lamb or whatever animal shrouded the Holy of Holies this is not a prophetic object regarding the Messiah.

The Holy of Holies is allegory for the part of the mind wherein God resides or the mind's eye, third eye or pineal gland that Jesus called the Lamp.

A teaching by him and not so much about him, but about us. The Word becoming flesh is a different thing altogether and not a claim at godhood by Jesus, who was born and earned his crown of thorns and title as Word/Logos of God by his life of teaching not because he was really the first Word of God.

Is God's first thought (nous) also going to incarnate someday or no?

a reply to: zardust

I didn't say God sacrificed the animals that he made skins (clothing) for Adam and Eve. My point was that He was teaching them that He would cover them, they couldn't cover themselves. That by the shedding of blood they would be covered. It's merely a Leviticus typology of the atonement.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Do you know the actual process of atonement for Israel? It involves two goats, the desert and a cliff, a red string and the god Azazel.

And the garment worn by Adam ended up with Nimrod and was the source of his power.

Nimrod's death was at the hands of Esau under the direction of Shem/Melchizedek. Abraham probably ended up with the garment. It's not a very Christian typology because it isn't in the Bible it's in Yasher and other books but I guarantee you that no Christ typology is in Eden and the first mention of the Messiah is branch of Jesse, root of David so I don't see it.

With the exception of Light. Light is the Logos. That is the first creation and Word...Light. Bright and Morning star, the source of light and the bringer of light.

Christ typology is in the story of Joseph, Jacob, Moses and other stories but I like the symbolism that exists between the Crown of Thorns and the Burning Bush. What other symbols do you see from the New Testament that share meaning with Old Testament?

The star of the Magi, what do you think that represents in the Old Testament?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: zardust

The OT is littered with examples of Christ, we could go for 100 pages showing them all. Another one, the tabernacle in the wilderness.. The glory of God (His presence) was wrapped in flesh (animal skins).

So far you mention the presence of God draped in flesh and that is a good one now that I think of it but hundreds? Let's hear some.

How about Sampson the Nazirite who was promised to God from birth and after a betrayal he tears down a temple. He isn't Christ but Christ is foretold in Samson as an archetype.

Even Joshua or Yeshua is a savior -type as a warrior while the Messiah or Christ Yeshua is a savior by Wisdom.

My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? has meaning in the OT and is in a Psalm.

So him shouting that at death is to his Judean brethren a message of significance. Why do you think he said that?

Why do two separate accounts of his FINAL words disagree about what he said?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

You did say he killed the animal. I'm not denying copious amounts of sacrifice in the OT. Just that this isn't one of them.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: NOTurTypical

You did say he killed the animal. I'm not denying copious amounts of sacrifice in the OT. Just that this isn't one of them.

Isn't it common sense? I mean no offense by that, but God made them clothes out of the skins of animals. They were skinned, I presume not alive.

a reply to: Elsemyazazededera

Well, I work about 14 hours a day. I usually get on here at the end of the day, or for a few minutes in the morning while I have my coffee.

And it's remarkable you know about Psalm 22. It's literally written first person singular as He hung on the cross, and 1000 years before crucifixion was invented.