Another chicken or egg thread. Or, is it?

I have caused a problem on my OP.
It's no wonder you're finding it confusing. Sorry.
I know i stated. Then restated that the chicken came first.
This was a momentary lapse of reason on my behalf.
The egg came first. because the egg predates the chicken/bird.
The reptile is the one responsible for the need and development of the egg.
I hope this makes sense now.
Sorry folks.

Might have something to do with evolution. It boils down to species imo. Turtles leave their eggs behind and hope for the best. Chicken eggs need incubation.

a reply to: blackcrowe

Eggs go back further than reptiles or amphibians and there is fossilized evidence of eggs and embryos, including post blastula but pre-hatching embryo at a stage that is beginning to transform into a spiral animal the has characteristics consistent with a tubular shaped coral. These microfossils come from a fossil site near Weng'an, South China dated to ~ 600 MA. This is long before the Cambrian explosion and the diversity of life that came with it. www.sciencedaily.com...

There is also evidence of egg laying insects prior to the Cambrian explosion as well. These insects were leaving spawn sacks similar to those associate with amphibians that you mentioned earlier in your OP and we see similar structures even today with spiders and waterborne insects as well as many modern amphibians. There's a pretty clear evolution from single celled organisms engaging in binary division up to these pre-Cambrian eggs on to amphibians eggs up through soft shelled eggs of some early reptiles( and in some modern turtles) on through the hard shelled eggs of other reptiles and then dinosaurs, Theropods in particular because they gave rise to the birds of today. All modern domestic chickens are descended from 1 of 4 species of jungle fowl from S.E. Asia, most likely Gallus Gallus, the Red Jungle Fowl that today has a range from Northern India/Southern China east to Sumatra.

Here is a pretty good rundown of the domestication history of Chickens, but contrary to other posters here, there was no "first adult chicken" who laid the first chicken egg. It was a slow process that has occurred in Chickens and their direct precedent species for roughly 50 MA. Not only did the egg come before the chicken, it came before the Theropods they descended from and came before almost any modern clade existed going back nearly 600 MA

a reply to: 5StarOracle


actually the egg came first.

i know this because i spent the over half my life on a chicken farm. we raised them for eggs and sold them to different companies that made dog food, cat food and some for human consumption when they stopped laying as many eggs as they use to. at one point we had close to 1.5 million chickens.

the chicken came from cross breeding red and grey jungle fowl, and were raised for fighting in aisa africa before domestication.
there is one breed of chicken that have been in south amercaia before the spainish came and some use that as a point for trans Pacific contact of east and west.

Scientists finally concluded that the chicken came first not the egg because the protein which makes ...

a reply to: tikbalang

Eggsactly...

originally posted by: rexsblues
More importantly... how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

How long is a piece of string?

a reply to: peter vlar

Thanks for your reply.
It was very interesting and detailed with good links.
I have seen most of what you wrote already.
But. Thought the amphibian/reptile scenario would be as far back as this thread needs to be.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Thanks.
Again. Another good reply.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
And it does not matter what laid eggs first because nothing ever laid the first chicken egg but a chicken...
It's a rather large argument against evolution...

It's a rather large misunderstanding of evolution not a rather large argument against it.

There was no first chicken and there was no first egg.

Every species in existence is born from the same species.

a reply to: tikbalang
Thanks.
I did read that too.
There seems to be a split of opinion about this. With experts to support both sides.
But. The egg predates the chicken. Fact.
So, the answer has to be egg.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Thanks.
Going back to your earlier replies.
The egg predates the chicken. Fact.
So that's the proof.
Not that a chicken can come about without an egg. As you said earlier.

a reply to: chr0naut

A piece of string is twice half its length.

a reply to: blackcrowe

For a chicken to be a chicken it must start as a chicken egg.
For a chicken egg to be a chicken egg it must come from a chicken.

The answer to the question is that it's a stupid question.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Thanks.
I agree It supports evolution.

originally posted by: blackcrowe
The egg predates the chicken. Fact.

That's true however the question is...

What came first the chicken or the egg?
not
What came first a chicken or a egg.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Thanks.
It's more of a conundrum to ponder over than a stupid question.
If it was a stupid question. It would have got ignored and forgotten.
But. It is a question which has been studied seriously over the years.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

As you quoted me. That is fact. And you agreed it's true.
Changing THE to A or even AN is not the issue for me in this question.

Thanks again.
Now i'm seeing the answers i was expecting to see when i first posted this thread.
I couldn't understand the comments on the first page.
And. No wonder with my OP.
Respect to you ATS members

a reply to: intrepid

Thanks.
I believe that it's all about evolution.