9/11 and the Creation of an Orwellian State of Mind Worldwide

I finally reached that magic number that allows me to create my own OP here in the 9/11 forum; being that it is such a volatile subject, I concur with the reasoning behind restrictions for doing so.

The events that happened that day are forever etched in the annals of history. The question is which version is the truth and which one is covered in lies and half truths?

There have been many different theories bandied about and I think some have merit and some do not.

We can agree on a few obvious points and disagree on the covert issues. For instance, some planes were involved, but what kind and who was controlling them? Or buildings did fall, but how and why? Information was reported, but which are facts and which are fiction? Did passengers really rush the cockpit and cause a plane to careen from the sky and become obliterated without a trace of verifiable evidence to support the reported tragedy? No bodies were recovered and no luggage to speak of.

The Pentagon was struck by something, but was it a plane or a missile? The hole in the building did not justify an airplane striking it, unless the wings and fuselage just vanished. Have to ask yourself how a plane even got anywhere near the most secured military establishment in the world, the one that is responsible for all military assignments and deployments and resources pertaining to anything military related.

3 buildings collapsed that day supposedly due to office fires and jet fuel fires that weakened support beams, causing structural weakness resulting in what appeared to be "free fall" speed directly into their own footprints. How amazing is it, that in the history of steel engineering of skyscrapers, that never before that day had any steel enforced building ever collapsed in the same manner. These buildings must have really had shoddy and poorly formed engineering to do so. The all had the mannerisms associated with controlled demolition. I will not postulate on what type of explosives or how they got there or who put them there, but those buildings were never supposed to be able to fall that way from jet fuel or fires of any kind. There were just way to many safeguards in place for that to happen. Steel just doesn't melt like that and buildings do not fall that way without help from purposeful actions; there are way to many inconsistencies in the manner of destruction.

Now, this last section has to do with motive, who stood to gain from the many different financial aspects of that day? Certainly not the Muslim patsies they lined up to take the fall. They had absolutely nothing to gain financially, unless you give 72 virgins a collective monetary measure. No. There were many other parties that benefited greatly from that day. Stock options, SEC filings and investigations, CIA covert operations and funding, Pentagon expenditures and accounting thereof, asbestos removal so expensive it was cheaper to knock down 2 towers for the insurance (Larry the Swindler can attest), a reason to go to war for profit, control of oil pipelines and poppy fields, reasons to keep the petrodollar feasible, instill fear in the populous and creating a "New Pearl Harbor" that removed freedoms we gladly gave up.

This fiasco didn't just affect Americans. This set in motion the Orwellian state that the entire world revolves around now and put an emphasis on having no freedom to come and go and do anything we want without scrutiny from the security forces throughout the world that now monitor our every movement with facial recognition software and surveillance on every corner. Essentially, what transpired that day on 9/11 was the opening of another Pandora's Box; one that will never be closed again, until there is an even greater chaos that shuts it and resets humanity. At the rate we are going that is not to far from a reality.

We will never really know the truth about the events of that day, but we do have facts that are incontrovertible and we have suppositions supported by theories and physics; I will say I never will believe that the OS, as having been reported, is even remotely close.

originally posted by: forthelove
become obliterated without a trace of verifiable evidence to support the reported tragedy? No bodies were recovered and no luggage to speak of.

Why do you think bodies would be found as a result of a high speed jet airliner crash? Why ignore the DNA that confirmed the passengers?

The hole in the building did not justify an airplane striking it,

Based on what?

Have to ask yourself how a plane even got anywhere near the most secured military establishment in the world,

How close was Ronald Reagan Airport to the Pentagon?
What makes you think it was the most secured military establishment?

in what appeared to be "free fall" speed directly into their own footprints.

Why do you think WTC 1 & 2 fell at free fall speed?
If they fell into their own footprint how do you explain the damage done to the other buildings?

How amazing is it, that in the history of steel engineering of skyscrapers, that never before that day had any steel enforced building ever collapsed in the same manner.

How many previous buildings had been hit by a high speed jet airliner?

The all had the mannerisms associated with controlled demolition.

They did? Care to share those mannerisms with us?

Steel just doesn't melt like that

Please show evidence that steel melted....

there are way to many inconsistencies in the manner of destruction.

Such as....?

Please do some proper research before posting much debunked truther conspiracy theory crap.

a reply to: forthelove

Well since this is a fresh "in general" 9/11 thread, I would like to just present some questions maybe others may know the answer to.

*There was plenty of places around the Pentagon that utilized cameras even then, but the only single shot we have ever been provided are like 3 frames or so. Does the government even admit/acknowledge the existence of other videos from places like road cameras, property surveillance from surrounding businesses, news stations, city panorama cams that nearly every metro area news stations show even since the 90's?
*If they do acknowledge it, are they under national security restrictions, have been destroyed, have any existing time frames when their records can be unsealed for public record?
*Can they be subpoena for evidence in international court, even if it goes ignored?

I have always been most fascinated and perplexed at how the world just completely ignored and moved on from those specific details.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
Does the government even admit/acknowledge the existence of other videos from places like road cameras, property surveillance from surrounding businesses, news stations, city panorama cams that nearly every metro area news stations show even since the 90's?
*If they do acknowledge it, are they under national security restrictions, have been destroyed, have any existing time frames when their records can be unsealed for public record?
*Can they be subpoena for evidence in international court, even if it goes ignored?

The video's from them has been released, what are you on about?

a reply to: forthelove

Great write-up and excellent points.

As you probably know, there are plenty of documentaries on 9/11 but if you havent seen this one, I would strongly suggest watching it. Great info and really well done.

a reply to: forthelove

My attitude to all this is that although in many ways it does matter a great deal whether the events of that day could have been avoided, prevented, the real issue is the results of the attack.

I have said before that liberty comes with risks, and those who are worth defending at all, take that risk, and their right to take that risk, seriously. It is not a governments right or duty to provide for the security of its people, by eroding the liberties provided them by its founding documents. It is not a governments right or duty to limit freedoms and privacy, in order to protect mortal life. It is a governments right and duty to find ways to achieve security which involve not even the slightest hinderance to the normal operation of Liberty, freedom, privacy, and the elements of these things which are intrinsic to life in a nation of free people.

In times such as those which came about when those towers fell, it is upon a nations people to simply do one thing, or the other. Survive or die, and to do so happier in their freedom to do so, than they would be absent the Liberty they exercise in the doing of it. People like to reference the towers falling when they attempt to legitimise the creation of the mass surveillance networks and their operation. But this is folly of massive scale, because those systems were already being designed and tested WAY before the events of 9/11 took place.

And look what that event paved the way for! War in nations which had no firm link to the event, in nations which actually posed less threat to liberty and freedom in the west than do our own nations governments, trillions of dollars sunk into a global war effort which has seen countless conflicts, drawn out, unwinnable wars, the inflation of the coffers of private organisations and individuals, and the financial destitution of millions of innocent people in the west. And that is without mentioning the enormous loss of noncombatant, innocent lives in those conflicts, and the massive increase in extremism linked to those casualties.

All in all, what has been put into motion in response to that event, has been nothing short of a self perpetuating fear machine, which has blinded the unwary as to the real threat against their freedom and liberty. I have said this before, but it bears repeating:

Whether a person is a soldier or an office worker, a banker or a busboy, a postal worker or a labourer, each person in a country which professes to value the freedoms and liberties given to its people, whether by God or by decree of the people themselves, must be prepared to risk their lives in the pursuit and use of those freedoms, such that they would rather be dead than loose a single one of them. Whether that be the right to bear arms, or the right to go about their business unmonitored, whether that be the right to pursue their happiness, or the right to do so unsurveilled in the event of an absence of probable cause.

And yet, look at us now. All the western world has all the privacy one has come to expect from draconian, totalitarian states. We have access to less and less of the liberty that is supposedly defended by the unwarranted actions of our governments and their security providers. The wars have created more terror and terrorists than they have killed or put in jail, and the end result is that we have neither freedom, nor the security that the foolish desired to protect that liberty, that freedom.

Possessing freedom and liberty is a responsibility that comes with a heavy price, and it seems that too few are more willing to die with those liberties intact, that too many are willing to live without those things, despite the fact that a life without those concepts being enshrined and defended more jealously than one protects life, is no life at all to live.

The results speak to the intent of the actions which spawned them. Something is dirty, regardless of how the events of that day went down. It's a neat trick, because many even begged to give up their liberty. They went on their knees, wailing to be saved, complaining bitterly that there were losses. And yet liberties cost is life and limb, and we should all be glad to pay it, so that while we retain our measure of life and limb, we can enjoy them as we should. Free, at liberty.

Well done 1st OP, there can never be too many threads about the horror that happened on 911 and how it impacted the World. It's discouraging that the very 1st reply is the same old " Prove it " nonsense, with no substance or critical thinking to honestly discuss and analyse the facts we do know. Why have 28 pages from the 911 commission been hidden from the public ?

Well, first of all, WRT the "controlled demolition" part of the theory, I have somewhat of an unusual theory of my own about that. I don't really have a problem with the official story as to the idea that jumbo jets crashing into buildings can cause them to eventually collapse. I think that part probably happened just the way they say it did.

The way I see it, I'm not qualified to doubt that specific part of the equation. I'm just not that smart. That's to say I know when to say I don't know.

However, when you get to the consequences of 9/11, things get suspicious.

originally posted by: forthelove


Now, this last section has to do with motive, who stood to gain from the many different financial aspects of that day? Certainly not the Muslim patsies they lined up to take the fall. They had absolutely nothing to gain financially, unless you give 72 virgins a collective monetary measure. No. There were many other parties that benefited greatly from that day. Stock options, SEC filings and investigations, CIA covert operations and funding, Pentagon expenditures and accounting thereof, asbestos removal so expensive it was cheaper to knock down 2 towers for the insurance (Larry the Swindler can attest), a reason to go to war for profit, control of oil pipelines and poppy fields, reasons to keep the petrodollar feasible, instill fear in the populous and creating a "New Pearl Harbor" that removed freedoms we gladly gave up.

This fiasco didn't just affect Americans. This set in motion the Orwellian state that the entire world revolves around now and put an emphasis on having no freedom to come and go and do anything we want without scrutiny from the security forces throughout the world that now monitor our every movement with facial recognition software and surveillance on every corner. Essentially, what transpired that day on 9/11 was the opening of another Pandora's Box; one that will never be closed again, until there is an even greater chaos that shuts it and resets humanity. At the rate we are going that is not to far from a reality.

We will never really know the truth about the events of that day, but we do have facts that are incontrovertible and we have suppositions supported by theories and physics; I will say I never will believe that the OS, as having been reported, is even remotely close.

Yes. This part, I agree with. 9/11 was when all this nonsense started. Whether the terrorists were real or not. Whether it was done by who they say it was done by or not. The one thing that can't be disputed is that 9/11 changed the world for the worse and there have been a lot of people taking full advantage of it since the day it happened. People who have been making damn sure that everything that's bad that was caused by 9/11 sticks.

Things ARE getting increasingly Orwellian (and have been since 9/11 especially). And there's no sign it's going to stop anytime soon. Donald Trump would have never been taken seriously as a presidential candidate if the world hadn't gone insane because of the aftermath of 9/11. It's just that simple. Anyone who wants to argue that 9/11 didn't screw up the world only has to look at this circus of an election to see that something is very wrong. We have the wife of the man who inhabited the WH in the 8 years leading up to 9/11 in the lead on the left and a crazy clown who doesn't really believe in anything in the lead on the right. And then to close the deal on "This is insane" we have a nutty socialist (Sanders) creating a diversion.

The 90s and the decades before the 2000s might have had their "WTF?" moments but since 9/11 it seems like everything is inverted and upside down and wired backwards.

And I do agree. The collective state of mind of the world is the biggest casualty of 9/11. The Vietnam era was crazy but people kind of went back to some kind of normal once all the nonsense stopped. This doesn't look like it's going to end.

a reply to: hellobruce

The only videos ever released is whats here
which I already acknowledged. There were hundreds of other cameras from private, commercial, and government sources that would have had a view, and yet nothing.

You did not answer any of the questions, so I will just assume you are not qualified to answer them. If you have some other videos the world does not know about though, by all means release them.

dubs

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
There were hundreds of other cameras from private, commercial, and government sources that would have had a view, and yet nothing.

Care to list these "hundreds of cameras"?

If you have some other videos the world does not know about though, by all means release them.

Again, all the video's have been released.... what video's have not been released?

a reply to: hellobruce

You already had your chance to answer any of my initial questions, move along now bruce, nothing to see here.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
nothing to see here.

True, as the video's have been released!

a reply to: hellobruce

I am sitting here trying to figure out what it is you think happens to airplanes when they hit the ground in a normal fashion due to mechanical or even being shot out of the sky by jets, generally speaking they do not just get obliterated to point where all you can recover is DNA. The medical examiner that surveyed that scene said so themselves, there was nothing recoverable and that it was just a huge hole in the ground.

You did not see the molten steel pictures? Jet fuel does not burn hot enough, nor do office fires generate enough to melt steel. Also, if an aluminum jet cruising at the speed these supposedly were flying at the altitude commercial jets normally fly at they would have just gotten crushed and parts of the plane would have hit the ground when they hit th building. They would not have pierced the structure and just disappeared. Jet fuel evaporates on impact after the initial explosion creates a fireball, it burns itself out rather quickly.

Do some research of your own about steel. As too the damage caused to other buildings? 222 stories of steel and concrete being demolished will do plenty of damage to surrounding buildings and still fall into a free fall footprint. I saw what those buildings did, you want to deny what was obvious be my guest, you would not be the only one that refuses to use common sense.

a reply to: hellobruce

Yup, all two of them out of hundreds in the city that would have had some view of the flight path of the cruise missle that hit it.
Case closed!

originally posted by: forthelove
when they hit the ground in a normal fashion due to mechanical or even being shot out of the sky by jets, generally speaking they do not just get obliterated to point where all you can recover is DNA.

What about a high speed dive directly into the ground? In plane crashes pilots are not ttrying to hit the ground or building at high speed....

You did not see the molten steel pictures?

Please show them, and how do you know it was molten steel?

and parts of the plane would have hit the ground when they hit the building.

You mean like the plane parts recovered after all the crashes?

still fall into a free fall footprint. .

Neither WTC 1 and 2 free fell, as can clearly be seen by watching their collapse. WTC 7 free fell for only a short time due to the way it was built.

You really should not blindly believe all the silly conspiracy theory websites!

Personally I just enjoy the fact that people believe that the top block of floors of the north tower fell straight to the very bottom without any resistance from the below block of floors / 47 core columns / 240 perimeter columns, and again with the south tower.

I don't find any reason to believe that the north tower just simply 'collapsed' and then the south tower just simply 'collapsed' and then building 7 just simply 'collapsed'. I think it's hilarious.

I think those that believe the official story are numb.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
a reply to: hellobruce

Yup, all two of them out of hundreds in the city that would have had some view

Please detail the location, and what they were pointed at of these "hundreds of cameras".