The Case of the Man with No Brain: Where does Consciousness Really Come From?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: pl3bscheese

Such a perspective has NO remotely rational, fitting explanation for the brain neurosurgeon's experiences cited above--Dr Eben Alexander III. No explanation. None.

LOL @ quoting some unsubstantiated anecdote in book form as credible evidence.

Go find an unwitting patient, carve out 90% of their brain and report back with the results.

a reply to: GetHyped

You have clearly not been exposed in a conscious, rational way with Dr Alexander's evidence.

Let me know when you've read it.

PERHAPS then we could have a rational and meaningful dialogue about the evidence.

The facts brain neurosurgeon Dr Alexander brings to the table are that

CONSCIOUSNESS can exist outside of physiological brain activity.

Deal with that FACT.

Or blather on absurdly missing the point.

a reply to: BO XIAN

It's not a fact, you're using an appeal to authority and jibberish.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Soooooooooooo . . . you do not think that a high quality brain neurosurgeon sharing the UNARGUABLE VERIFIED FACTS

of his intense experiences smack in the middle of the consciousness issue

has

anything of authentic substance to offer to the discussion

. . . because . . . .

YOU

in your unmitigated

OMNISCIENT BRILLIANCE

DECREE

it so!

Impressive.

I remain underwhelmed.

I'm also incredulous that you'd even pretend to the person in your mirror that your arrogance on such issues has a shred of validity in deciding any issue of truth.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Please post the objective verification of these "facts".

a reply to: BO XIAN

Please post the objective verification of these "facts".

a reply to: BO XIAN

Can you please just act like an adult for once?

It's not arrogant to state the obvious, or call people out. Grow up!

a reply to: GetHyped

I'll check my notes . . . though I am extremely skeptical that a mountain of facts would sway you away from your compulsion to push your agenda regardless of the facts.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I'll await this "mountain of facts".

a reply to: GetHyped

Extrapolations . . .

I noted I'd offer some evidence from my notes, assuming I find what I'm looking for.

I inferred/noted that EVEN IF one offered a mountain of evidence, it likely would not persuade hyper-skeptics.

I made no commitment to offer mountains of evidence. I don't think that the rigid biases of the hyper-skeptics are worth that much work.

Interesting thread .. Thanks.

I have heard of Dr Eben Alexander III Before and he did strike rich from his book's. His life as a Surgeon did nor go quite as well before he had his visit to heaven with all its light and butterflies.

Here is a link to an interesting blog that questions his claims..

www.skeptic.com...

But soon after his book came out, investigations into his past were conducted. In a 2013 article called “The Prophet” (paywall), Esquire contributing editor Luke Dittrich dug up a lot of facts which suggest it may all have been a fable concocted to cash in on the widespread religious belief in heaven—a fable made all the more persuasive coming from the mouth of a neurosurgeon. Here are some of the key points established by Dittrich (given here roughly as summarized by Jerry Coyne in his useful discussion of Dittrich’s piece): After repeated lawsuits, Alexander temporarily or permanently lost his surgical privileges at two different hospitals. For example, as Dittrich wrote, “In August 2003, UMass Memorial suspended Alexander’s surgical privileges ‘on the basis or allegation of improper performance of surgery.'” Alexander has been repeatedly accused of falsifying evidence related to his surgeries—a “court-documented history of revising facts,” in Dittrich’s description.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I see the post casting aspersions on his character etc. Those allegations ring extremely hollow to farcical. That's not the man presented in the book by a long shot. I have no need to waste time on such stuff.

I realize that some folks' constructions on reality simply will not, cannot allow for realities outside such rigid boundaries of their assumptions and/or 'experiences.'

Here's my retyping of APPENDIX A from his book:

PROOF OF HEAVEN: A NEUROSURGEON'S JOURNEY INTO THE AFTERLIFE

Statement by Scott Wade, M.D.

As an infectious diseases specialist I was asked to see Dr Eben Alexander when he presented to the hospital on November 10, 2008, and was found to have bacterial meningitis. Dr Alexander had become ill quickly with flu-like symptoms, back pain, and a headache. He was promptly transported to the Emergency Room, where he had a CT scan of his head and then a lumbar puncture with spinal fluid suggesting a gram-negative meningitis. . . . .and placed on a ventilator machine because of his critical condition and coma.

[extra paragraphing for easier reading]

Within twenty-four hours the gram-negative bacteria ... was confirmed as E.coli. ... is very rare in adults (less than one in 10 million annual incidence in the United States), especially in the absence of any head trauma, neurosurgery, or other medical conditions . . . Dr Alexander was very healthy at the time of his diagnosis and no underlying cause for his meningitis could be identified.

The mortality rate for gram-negative meningitis in children and adults ranges from 40 to 80 percent. Dr Alexander presented to the hospital with seizures and a markedly altered mental status, both of which are risk factors for neurological complications or death (mortality over 90 percent).

Despite prompt and aggressive antibiotic treatment for his E.coli meningitis as well as continued care in the medical intensive care unit, he remained in a coma six days and hope for a quick recovery faded (mortality over 97 percent).

Then on the seventh day, the miraculous happened--he opened his eyes, became alert, and was quickly weaned from the ventilator. The fact that he went on to have a full recovery from his illness after being in a coma for nearly a week is truly remarkable.

--Scott Wade, M.D.

APPENDIX B includes 9 or more:

"Neuroscientific Hypotheses I Considered to Explain My Experience"

None of them fit his realities.

Anyone seriously looking for the truth can check those facts out.

Enough.

The hyper-skeptics can maintain their death grip on the dry husk of their empty beliefs in nothing.

a reply to: BO XIAN

They'll die before they admit to being wrong..

EM fields? Get real. What this sounds like in a much more understandable parallel is that this guy's brain is the equivalent of Windows 10 being compressed down to fit onto a 100 MB hard drive. Brain matter, compared to a hard drive, is much more adaptable, though, so it's not too much of a stretch to compensate for less matter. Just rare.

Why are people not seeing this for what it is? His head isn't a void, he has matter in there. Just not a whole hell of a lot of it like everyone else. It's probably highly efficient, though. Make do with what you have, or die. Betcha a peek in under the best microscope available would yield a high density of connections in the matter. Score 1 for nature's Plasticity Mode.

a reply to: BO XIAN

If that's your idea of evidence then I have to laugh. Are your academic standards so low? That "verifiable FACT" is just some unsubstantiated fanciful claim? Deary me.

This reminds me of a young man mentioned in a documentary about brain and consciousness/intelligence. His brain had been hugely affected by something (trauma or disease - not sure) but he was left with an active portion of brain about the size of a golf ball. He should have been majorly incapacitated but just the opposite, he was quite intelligent IE above average and scans of his brain activity revealed massive activity in that tiny remainder of brain which compensated for loss of the rest. The subject of the OP has far more active brain by comparison.

Might have to go searching for the story - it was years ago I saw it

a reply to: Pilgrum

I would love to read up on the case you're talking about. If you would like assistance in searching for it let me know, would be happy to help. Just need any other details you can recall about the story

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: BO XIAN

They'll die before they admit to being wrong..

Am keenly aware of that.

It's amazing to me that folks considering themselves logical, rational and "scientific" would even imagine to be so adamant about anything they'd not read at least 25% of, if not all of.

Such is the nature of blind bias and uninformed hostility to truth.

There are few things human that are more basic than CONSCIOUSNESS.

It is a paragon super-ordinate construct of a supremely high priority and to get THAT WRONG is a major error of intolerable implications.

And the implications are eternally crucial, lasting, impactful.

a reply to: GetHyped

That's some incredible audacity and cheek to call something unverified that you haven't even read.

I assume you' also pretend that such an unexamined ignoring of the evidence is somehow to you, still "scientific."

Fascinating.

Wellllllllll, enjoy your assumptions and pretenses about CONSCIOUSNESS.

We'll see how they work out for you in the long run. I don't consider the end result promising at all.

It's interesting that initially, before his 6-7 days of coma, Dr Alexander would have agreed with you.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Still no evidence presented. What a shame.