An honest breakdown of Trumps Pros and Cons....

Trump is an incredibly high risk, high reward option. As soon as I decide I'm voting for him, he does something that makes me check myself....

Here is my honest "no propaganda" take...



Pros:

1) hypothetically he can't be bought.

2) He is the first politician in modern history who HAS NOT had to bend the knee and kiss the ring of the GOP (or DNC) establishment.

3) He can break the gridlock and actually pass a min wage increase and a single payer option. As well as addressing the war on drugs. All of which he is the only republican willing to address...and the GOP WILL NOT be able to unite against him to block it as they would with Hillary or Bernie.

4) if Trump wins it will effectively destroy the "principled" conservative movement. Hell he has already made the GOP run from all the social issues they have spent decades fighting. He is the only person who can pry the GOP from the grasp of socially motivated evangelicals. Trump will not be attacking gays or abortion.

5) will drag the Republican Party to a far more libertarian theme. Which might actually save it and provide a valid second option.

6) He has already proven that no elected republican official actually has any principles they won't drop for their team. Half of his proposals are exactly what they have been attacking for decades. Free trade, min raise hike, unisex bathrooms, gay marriage, abortion, corruption (admits to buying politicians), constant lies and flip flops, pot legalization, cuddling up to Russia, exc are all things republicans have claimed for decades, would destroy America. Now they are defending, or trying to defend trumps positions on almost all of these..





Cons:

1) constantly lies and contradicts himself, sometimes in the same speech.


2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

A) Trumps people only making one change to the RNC platform and that being removing their promise to provide "leathal weaponry" to Ukraine to giving them "appropriate aid".

B) Paul manifort was a lobbiest fo a Russian oil company and personally knows those very close to Putin.

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

It is hard to argue against Trump and Putin being in bed togather.

3) cutting out the corruption middleman...

Instead of electing a politician who has been bought. We would be electing someone who admittedly buys politicians.

Not sure which is worse..honestly I'm not.


4) he has personally taken advantage of every bad trade deal he is claiming to want to fix. No trump merchandise is made here.



I'm so on the fence this election. IMHO it is status quo vs. high risk, high reward.

a reply to: JoshuaCox
I agree with most but ,

2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

The hacks were done by a Romanian , not the Russian government

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I agree with most but ,

2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

The hacks were done by a Romanian , not the Russian government

According to the FBI it was done by a high tech group from Russia, not some random guy in a basement.

I've seen this on both left and right media. The only real questions are,

1) was trump knowingly involved?

2) why did they choose to leak them?

in the pro column i'll have to admit this has been great!!

4) if Trump wins it will effectively destroy the "principled" conservative movement. Hell he has already made the GOP run from all the social issues they have spent decades fighting. He is the only person who can pry the GOP from the grasp of socially motivated evangelicals. Trump will not be attacking gays or abortion.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

He can break the gridlock and actually pass a min wage increase and a single payer option. As well as addressing the war on drugs. All of which he is the only republican willing to address...and the GOP WILL NOT be able to unite against him to block it as they would with Hillary or Bernie.

That's wrong.

If congress doesn't want to play ball, he will be gridlocked.

And the chances of congress upping minimum wage and ending the war on drugs is as likely as Lenin rising from his crypt.

originally posted by: knoxie
in the pro column i'll have to admit this has been great!!

4) if Trump wins it will effectively destroy the "principled" conservative movement. Hell he has already made the GOP run from all the social issues they have spent decades fighting. He is the only person who can pry the GOP from the grasp of socially motivated evangelicals. Trump will not be attacking gays or abortion.

It is truly hilarious the way evangelicals have jumped the principled ship!

If trump loses they will claim he "wasn't conservative enough" and retake the GOP, but if he wins...they lose forever....and with a smile and a thank you to trump!

Interesting...

I'm no expert on the dude, or these Russia allegations.

But even if true, one might weigh him being buddies with Russia vs. Clinton being a shill for China.

I have certain fondness's for both Russian & Chinese peoples/cultures (different reasons as they are very different).

The stuff of all those US companies selling out the US and moving everything to China (under Clinton), and the Chinese Government having our economy by the balls, I vote being buddies with Russia vs. being owned by China if that really is the choice.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Trump will not be attacking gays or abortion.

Have you seen his VP pick???

This is wrong as well.


Part of the GOP platform under Trump is to elect a far right Judge & reverse SC decisions on marriage and abortion.

time.com...

So I hear.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I agree with most but ,

2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

The hacks were done by a Romanian , not the Russian government

According to the FBI it was done by a high tech group from Russia, not some random guy in a basement.

I've seen this on both left and right media. The only real questions are,

1) was trump knowingly involved?

2) why did they choose to leak them?

1) Hopefully he was.
2) If the Russian government was involved , they would only release them at the precise time.Perhaps Putin cant stand Hillary either.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: JoshuaCox

He can break the gridlock and actually pass a min wage increase and a single payer option. As well as addressing the war on drugs. All of which he is the only republican willing to address...and the GOP WILL NOT be able to unite against him to block it as they would with Hillary or Bernie.

That's wrong.

If congress doesn't want to play ball, he will be gridlocked.

And the chances of congress upping minimum wage and ending the war on drugs is as likely as Lenin rising from his crypt.

Remember Ted Cruz??

He only didn't endorse trump enough! He didn't attack him or rant about how he was going to destroy the party, and Trump politically assassinated him.


The democrats will back all of those things and some republicans will remember the red Cruz lesson and jump ship too.


The only opposition will be the few republicans willing to take trump on.


I'm disagreeing COMPLETELY! Lol

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I agree with most but ,

2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

The hacks were done by a Romanian , not the Russian government

According to the FBI it was done by a high tech group from Russia, not some random guy in a basement.

I've seen this on both left and right media. The only real questions are,

1) was trump knowingly involved?

2) why did they choose to leak them?

1) Hopefully he was.
2) If the Russian government was involved , they would only release them at the precise time.Perhaps Putin cant stand Hillary either.

That's half the point is they chose to release them at exactly when it is best for trump.

According to wiki leaks the worst are set to be released soon....as soon as she officially has the nomination and it will be a disaster to Unnominate her.

An on paper enemy rigging our political system isn't good, no matter your party.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I agree with most but ,

2) the Russian connection.... I personally believe our veiw of Russia has been screwed up by Cold War propaganda. Regan and others created a straw man villian to scare people into voting for them. So republicans have beaten that dead horse since. Maybe this isnt all bad, but a politican so close to a nation we consider (right or wrong) an enemy is nuts.

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

C) the DNC hack was done by russia AND they released the info, which is unheard of. Normally if you spy you keep the data to yourself.

The hacks were done by a Romanian , not the Russian government

According to the FBI it was done by a high tech group from Russia, not some random guy in a basement.

I've seen this on both left and right media. The only real questions are,

1) was trump knowingly involved?

2) why did they choose to leak them?

1) Hopefully he was.
2) If the Russian government was involved , they would only release them at the precise time.Perhaps Putin cant stand Hillary either.

That's half the point is they chose to release them at exactly when it is best for trump.

According to wiki leaks the worst are set to be released soon....as soon as she officially has the nomination and it will be a disaster to Unnominate her.

An on paper enemy rigging our political system isn't good, no matter your party.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Wasn't it Wikileaks that timed the released of the dataset?

If so then unless the new claim is that Wikileaks is a Russian .gov front, then rolling snowball not so much.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Wasn't it Wikileaks that timed the released of the dataset?

If so then unless the new claim is that Wikileaks is a Russian .gov front, then rolling snowball not so much.

Or the people who hacked in made them agree to a release schedule in exchange for the right to leak it.

Hypothetically russia hacks in, tells wiki leaks they can have the data, but want X released now and the rest on a later date.

a reply to: Gothmog

The Russians under Putin are trying to reinstate the Cold War

And why? They can't afford to fight the Cold War again, yet Putin is belligerent.

My guess is that it's because Putin knows he can do anything he wants while Four-Putt whines about it.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

That's half the point is they chose to release them at exactly when it is best for trump.

Right. Who profits?

Also, this same group, according to the FBI, also hacked the White House, the Defense Department, the State Department, just to name a few, but they didn't touch the RNC? Come on now!

Again, who profits and who is unabashedly utilizing the content of those illegally obtained emails to publicly tear down the opposition. Who is lauding Russia for their cleverness, instead of decrying the Russian breach and venting outrage for obviously politically motivated interference?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Possibly. But wasn't this email set FROM the same as from the other? Does your logic follow thru on that timing?

Another thing to consider in this timing concept is what was the last dated email n the set? (I have no idea)

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JoshuaCox

That's half the point is they chose to release them at exactly when it is best for trump.

Right. Who profits?

Also, this same group, according to the FBI, also hacked the White House, the Defense Department, the State Department, just to name a few, but they didn't touch the RNC? Come on now!

Again, who profits and who is unabashedly utilizing the content of those illegally obtained emails to publicly tear down the opposition. Who is lauding Russia for their cleverness, instead of decrying the Russian breach and venting outrage for obviously politically motivated interference?

Trump and Russia, if trump has promised not to interfere in Ukraine and/or to ease sanctions. Then It would be in Russia's best interest to back trump.

Hell, just trumps pro Russian comments might be enough to have them back him without his knowledge...



Or are you really saying that Hillary hurt herself, to make it look like trump and Russia are in bed? Cause that doesn't add up.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Possibly. But wasn't this email set the same as from the other? Does your logic follow thru on that timing?

Another thing to consider in this timing concept is what was the last dated email n the set? (I have no idea)

Fairly recently by the comments. At most within the last 6 months.

Another interesting question is, did trump decide not to release his taxes after this BECAUSE it shows a big influx of Russian money.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Actually, none of it matters at this point.
Barring an "accident" or heart attack, Clinton has won the general election.

Here's the deal........the voters don't elect POTUS, the Electoral College elects POTUS.

Check Real Clear Politics: www.realclearpolitics.com...
On that page look to the right and see the polling results for the battleground states.

Then go to: www.270towin.com...
Turn the battleground states leaning Clinton blue and the battleground states leaning Trump and voila!
Clinton, WITHOUT FLORIDA , Clinton gets 323 Electoral College votes, Trump gets 215. 270 is all that's needed to win.

Sorry to throw a wet blanket over this election, but................its over.