Is the LHC responsible for worldwide earthquakes?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: intrptr

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

We could probably seriously effect the core itself as well with atomic weapons.

About as much as an ant can affect a house. So..not at all. Where do you people get this rubbish from??

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gothmog

What is your point?

I haven't said any different.

However what you are not explaining is that the military as well as space travel propulsion engineers are considering using antimatter as well as the medical field. All things being researched through particle physics and particle colliders. My brother is a particle physicist and did post grad work at his alma matter at the u of Chicago at Fermi labs.

I am saying the expirement verifications and discovery done are what will lead to energy production, weaponry (unfortunately), and medical use among other things.

And yeah z (4430)tetra and pentaquarks for instance are coming and being verified from lhc expirements.

As far as what I said about the lhc expirements creating events. I was simply referring to the possibility the failure of magnetic containment in some expirements would result in a local event. Nothing doomsday.

And yes we can definitely effect the faults if that was out goal with current technology. For instance drilling and placing series of explosions from atomic weapons.

The medical field already does. PET scans involve positrons. Anti electrons.

And the military is a few hundred years from any type of antimatter weapon.

If the magnetic field fails then a few magnet go boom from suddenly vapour He. Expensive but that's about it.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: luthier

The bomb doesn't have to go under anything.

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

Should pay attention to what you are claiming from one post to the next.

Making stuff up on the fly isn't helping your position.

I am not making anything up though you should take your own advice. Obviously we can trigger earthquakes if that was our goal and yeah digging six miles below the earth into volcanic structure and placing a series of nukes to stress the volcanoes structure would certainly work.

Well..you are making grand claims and have not backed up a single one and have actual physicists telling you that you are wrong.

So yes, you are just pulling rubbish out of thin air.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: NightFlight

Sure the expirement themselves or failed containment could create a variety of events depending on the expirement. The likely hood is pretty low.

Actually, containment failed in the first run of the machine. Big mess in a small section but that's all.

Google. Research. Try it.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

I guess your not versed in geology.

As I said if you placed several nukes on a fault that was already stressed then the explosions would do two things. Create a foreshock as well as remove material. We are capable of drilling 6 miles into the earth as well.

As far as the core that was more speculative but two things could happen there as well. A nuke could reverse the magnetic field rotation of the core quickly which is a big problem or it could crack the crystal structure itself of the inner core.

Can we get that far not yet. Maybe not ever. This was simply a response to put humans not being able to effect the faults and earthquakes. We already do. Like I said even damns and the pressure from the weight of the water can effect faults among a few other things.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gothmog

What is your point?

I haven't said any different.

However what you are not explaining is that the military as well as space travel propulsion engineers are considering using antimatter as well as the medical field. All things being researched through particle physics and particle colliders. My brother is a particle physicist and did post grad work at his alma matter at the u of Chicago at Fermi labs.

I am saying the expirement verifications and discovery done are what will lead to energy production, weaponry (unfortunately), and medical use among other things.

And yeah z (4430)tetra and pentaquarks for instance are coming and being verified from lhc expirements.

As far as what I said about the lhc expirements creating events. I was simply referring to the possibility the failure of magnetic containment in some expirements would result in a local event. Nothing doomsday.

And yes we can definitely effect the faults if that was out goal with current technology. For instance drilling and placing series of explosions from atomic weapons.

The medical field already does. PET scans involve positrons. Anti electrons.

And the military is a few hundred years from any type of antimatter weapon.

If the magnetic field fails then a few magnet go boom from suddenly vapour He. Expensive but that's about it.

Do you have a source saying we are hundreds of years away from antimatter weapons or that we are not currently researching them?

Cause my whole point was that these expirements are creating knowledge of physics that couldn't be done without the equiptment. Without an expirement it's just a prediction.

Also what's your point? Just trying to be contrary.

I said there is medical, propulsion, energy, and medical uses for the discoveries and confirmations of predictions from the lhc.

Your post makes zero sense trying to refute that.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: luthier

The bomb doesn't have to go under anything.

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

Should pay attention to what you are claiming from one post to the next.

Making stuff up on the fly isn't helping your position.

I am not making anything up though you should take your own advice. Obviously we can trigger earthquakes if that was our goal and yeah digging six miles below the earth into volcanic structure and placing a series of nukes to stress the volcanoes structure would certainly work.

Well..you are making grand claims and have not backed up a single one and have actual physicists telling you that you are wrong.

So yes, you are just pulling rubbish out of thin air.

Can you list some grand claims I made?

Oh wow!! 6 miles! Only 4000 more to go. And you are saying that im the one not versed in geography? Nukes on fault likes will do no more than rats pushing on a wall. Nature is FAR more energetic than we are right now. Are you aware of how much energy is released during the plate movements of an earthquake? Or how much energy a single hurricane has?

By the way, if the earth was an apple, i dont think we have even broken through the skin yet.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: NightFlight

Sure the expirement themselves or failed containment could create a variety of events depending on the expirement. The likely hood is pretty low.

Actually, containment failed in the first run of the machine. Big mess in a small section but that's all.

Google. Research. Try it.

Oh I am aware. I have a brother who is a particle physicist and did post grad work at fermilab after he got his second PhD at u of Chicago.

I was referring to the failure of antimatter containment or during an expirement not powering the lhc up. But yes this was the local event I was talking about. You can clearly see I said it wouldn't be catastrophic or a big deal that it would be a local event.

Nice try though. Maybe you should take your own advice and throw some substance out there so we can debate a point you disagree with.

So far you just went the ad hominem route and chose to make a pointless arguement.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: luthier

The bomb doesn't have to go under anything.

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

Should pay attention to what you are claiming from one post to the next.

Making stuff up on the fly isn't helping your position.

I am not making anything up though you should take your own advice. Obviously we can trigger earthquakes if that was our goal and yeah digging six miles below the earth into volcanic structure and placing a series of nukes to stress the volcanoes structure would certainly work.

Well..you are making grand claims and have not backed up a single one and have actual physicists telling you that you are wrong.

So yes, you are just pulling rubbish out of thin air.

Can you list some grand claims I made?

Certainly:


-I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

-We could probably seriously effect the core itself as well with atomic weapons.

-Military considering using antimatter (they will use anything and antimatter weapons are centuries away from being a reality)

-It's the percussion part of triggering the release of stored energy. Pretty basic stuff.

-And besides we can drill very deep already we have made it about 6 miles. (a scratch on the surface of the earth)

a reply to: 3danimator2014

So human beings can't effect faults and earthquakes.

Your so upset by a past argument you aren't even thinking strait.

Answer me this does the usgs consider human beings responsible for any earthquakes?

Can you read

We can set up a string of nuclear weapons on an active fault with potential energy and alter the time it was going to go.

Is that better can you understand that?

I fully admit any core discussion is theoretical. Is that better.

However volcanoes and faults are a different story. They have potential energy closer to the surface. They can be effected either directly or indirectly by percussion and theoretically ultra low frequencies.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: luthier

The bomb doesn't have to go under anything.

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

Should pay attention to what you are claiming from one post to the next.

Making stuff up on the fly isn't helping your position.

I am not making anything up though you should take your own advice. Obviously we can trigger earthquakes if that was our goal and yeah digging six miles below the earth into volcanic structure and placing a series of nukes to stress the volcanoes structure would certainly work.

Well..you are making grand claims and have not backed up a single one and have actual physicists telling you that you are wrong.

So yes, you are just pulling rubbish out of thin air.

Can you list some grand claims I made?

Certainly:


-I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

-We could probably seriously effect the core itself as well with atomic weapons.

-Military considering using antimatter (they will use anything and antimatter weapons are centuries away from being a reality)

-It's the percussion part of triggering the release of stored energy. Pretty basic stuff.

-And besides we can drill very deep already we have made it about 6 miles. (a scratch on the surface of the earth)

Good.

So you read into and made a strawman out of my arguement. What I said was the military is using physics studies for anti matter weapons. Not that they have them.

m.sfgate.com...

Nukes and earthquakes.

www2.usgs.gov...

www.livescience.com...

Notice as well after puny humans built huge damns and reservoirs we also triggered earthquakes.

Fracking.


As far as the earths core that's a theoretical.

If you could get the frequencies of percussion to penetrate far enough to crack the inner core or alter the rotation we could effect the core.

Why.

Because we have an understanding of physics. We can do things far beyound our puny little fingers.

Oh and you forgot anti matter propulsion. Though all you need to do is a little Google to see that researchers in places like nasa are spending money on that.

a reply to: nobunaga

no - just no

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People


This is not exactly true.

I think you assume I mean those events are big ones.

The containment I as talking about was storing antimatter where yes if it were to "escape" would create an event like in the quantum world locally and probably somewhere else entangled. The amount of energy released would probably not even be observable from human senses.

The likelyhood of a failed expirement in military applications is much higher.

The problem here is if the research leads to the understanding of how to naturally collect antimatter or how to arrange it to create a larger reaction. Which is where the research is centering for weapons. At that point the accidents or containment issues would be a bigger problem.


But sure the magnets as I think I said in my first comment are for beaming particles at each other for collision.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: luthier

The bomb doesn't have to go under anything.

I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

Should pay attention to what you are claiming from one post to the next.

Making stuff up on the fly isn't helping your position.

I am not making anything up though you should take your own advice. Obviously we can trigger earthquakes if that was our goal and yeah digging six miles below the earth into volcanic structure and placing a series of nukes to stress the volcanoes structure would certainly work.

Well..you are making grand claims and have not backed up a single one and have actual physicists telling you that you are wrong.

So yes, you are just pulling rubbish out of thin air.

Can you list some grand claims I made?

Certainly:


-I don't know some nukes on the faults especially volatile ones or beneath super volcanoes would do it.

-We could probably seriously effect the core itself as well with atomic weapons.

-Military considering using antimatter (they will use anything and antimatter weapons are centuries away from being a reality)

-It's the percussion part of triggering the release of stored energy. Pretty basic stuff.

-And besides we can drill very deep already we have made it about 6 miles. (a scratch on the surface of the earth)

Good.

So you read into and made a strawman out of my arguement. What I said was the military is using physics studies for anti matter weapons. Not that they have them.

m.sfgate.com...

Nukes and earthquakes.

www2.usgs.gov...

www.livescience.com...

Notice as well after puny humans built huge damns and reservoirs we also triggered earthquakes.

Fracking.


As far as the earths core that's a theoretical.

If you could get the frequencies of percussion to penetrate far enough to crack the inner core or alter the rotation we could effect the core.

Why.

Because we have an understanding of physics. We can do things far beyound our puny little fingers.

Oh and you forgot anti matter propulsion. Though all you need to do is a little Google to see that researchers in places like nasa are spending money on that.

I love it. The ATS stock reply. "Strawman! Strawman!"

Laughable. I will reply to your post but can't right now. On way out.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People


This is not exactly true.

I think you assume I mean those events are big ones.

The containment I as talking about was storing antimatter where yes if it were to "escape" would create an event like in the quantum world locally and probably somewhere else entangled. The amount of energy released would probably not even be observable from human senses.

The likelyhood of a failed expirement in military applications is much higher.

The problem here is if the research leads to the understanding of how to naturally collect antimatter or how to arrange it to create a larger reaction. Which is where the research is centering for weapons. At that point the accidents or containment issues would be a bigger problem.


But sure the magnets as I think I said in my first comment are for beaming particles at each other for collision.

The antimatter that is made in particle accelerators IS released quite often.

One good example is the antimatter (positrons) that is used in PET imaging for medical use. In the case of the radioisotopes produced for PET imaging systems, the antimatter positrons are produced in a cyclotron particle accelerator. When used for PET medical imaging, the matter-antimatter (electron-positron) annihilations are so minisule that they don't adversly affect the patient inside whose body the matter-antimatter annilhilation is happening.

If you can show me that the LHC is producing antimatter in large enough amounts to cause issues if the antimatter is not contained, then you will have a valid point. However, as far as I know, that is not the case.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People


This is not exactly true.

I think you assume I mean those events are big ones.

The containment I as talking about was storing antimatter where yes if it were to "escape" would create an event like in the quantum world locally and probably somewhere else entangled. The amount of energy released would probably not even be observable from human senses.

The likelyhood of a failed expirement in military applications is much higher.

The problem here is if the research leads to the understanding of how to naturally collect antimatter or how to arrange it to create a larger reaction. Which is where the research is centering for weapons. At that point the accidents or containment issues would be a bigger problem.


But sure the magnets as I think I said in my first comment are for beaming particles at each other for collision.

The antimatter that is made in particle accelerators IS released quite often.

One good example is the antimatter (positrons) that is used in PET imaging for medical use. In the case of the radioisotopes produced for PET imaging systems, the antimatter positrons are produced in a cyclotron particle accelerator. When used for PET medical imaging, the matter-antimatter (electron-positron) annihilations are so minisule that they don't adversly affect the patient inside whose body the matter-antimatter annilhilation is happening.

If you can show me that the LHC is producing antimatter in large enough amounts to cause issues if the antimatter is not contained, then you will have a valid point. However, as far as I know, that is not the case.

If you look at my posts I don't say anywhere that the events are in anyway harmful to human beings. The release of antimatter is not an issue we haven't made nearly enough of it at the lhc to matter.

What I am saying is the military has a renewed interest because of the chance we will discover how to harvest antimatter without an lhc more naturally mixed with combining and sequencing for maximum yield. So I do have some reservations over the idea that these expirements outside of Cern could create larger local events like actual explosions in our sensory scale.

My whole devil's advocate deal here is yes we can certainly use physics to do huge amounts of damage. I am in no way agreeing Cern is responsible. However their research will be used for private and military applications.

I also pointed out propulsion and medical early on.

This was a response to one comment that the energy produced at Cern couldn't power a Christmas light.

Thats pretty short sighted. It's the research and then the use of it by engineers and scientists who develop artifacts from the research of physics.

Second was we can't effect faults because the energy in nature is so much greater than anything we can do.

Again not so we can manipulate what we understand of the physical properties governing nature or a geological system.

Our brains make us far supass what our puny hands can do.

a reply to: luthier

The topic of this thread is that the LHC is doing stuff that can have relatively large-scale adverse effects on its region, or even on the planet.

And as far as I know, the LHC is not currently magnetically containing large amounts of antimatter that would cause issues upon reacting with normal matter. Again, the amount of energy associated with the matter-antimatter annihilations from the antimatter that is produced is relatively miniscule. It's not like they have a big magnetic tank that holds enough antimatter to cause catastrophic (even locally catastrophic) issues.

If you are instead just speculating about "What if they did make enough antimatter to cause catastrophic problems", or "What if the LHC was used by the military to make weapons of mass destruction", then there is no use me arguing about "what ifs", because "what ifs" will always win out.

I mean, I could ask "what if they found a way to ramp up the energy enough at LHC to create high-speed collisions of massive enough chunks of matter that a large enough black hole is produced that could swallow the planet?" As far as I know, the LHC is not energetic enough to be able to do that, but what if it was?

But is there any evidence whatsoever that the LHC is currently causing global geologic, climate, or other issues? No, there isn't.

a reply to: nobunaga

Lhc cannot create earthquakes but anti gravity machines can

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

This is true. However you responded to my post. So I explained my position.

I think my very first post explains page one explains my position.

Also I think it's fairly reasonable to defend a position about the topic.

Can Cern create world events. Yes and no.

The location itself can not with any possible proposed expirement or its current design .

However the knowledge produced will produce real world explanations and inventions.

So no Cern is not gonna do it.

A paper they produce certainly could give designers the formula they need. Thats my synical view.


Especially given the nature of history.

None of the things I mentioned were what ifs I pulled out of thin air. They are things the research from Cern are producing funding for.

Military, Medical, propulsion, energy. Apkicarions of the research not some x files left field thing your making it out to be.