Pyramids. Are they really so technically clever?

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
Again, I ask...where are the Egyptian records that demonstrate how and when the pyramids were built? Can anybody link me a source that actually shows the hieroglyphic writings detailing the processes involved.

I do not consider the alien-hypothesis a tenable one.

Let's ask thought-experiment variant of that question - where are the documents that show how the Roman Colosseum were built? It's 2500 years younger than the pyramids. An inscription said that Vespasian ordered it to be built (just as there's inscriptions identifying Khufu as the owner of the pyramid.)

Why aren't there any documents in the original Latin detailing the processes involved in building the Colosseum?

Why aren't there any documents about the Dendera temple or the even older Temple of Karnak? Or the giant stepped pyramid of Djoser (although we know the architect's name)?

What's your thoughtful idea about why we don't have any documents on those, either?

Would that same logic apply to the pyramids before Giza, the Giza pyramids, and the 110+ pyramids constructed after Giza?

#1. Elephants.
#2. Neanderthals.

Both can drag heavier things than Sapiens.

a reply to: true2life

True.
I know this thread may look like i'm stating they weren't clever. They weren't clever enough to roof a large area.
They seem to have been very highly skilled. Lots of them. And, they had a great understanding of how to move and place these big rocks.
I'm sure they did use elephants or oxen to help move stone. It makes sense.

a reply to: blackcrowe

wasnt the recenty discovered labyrinth that petrie was always fascinated by supposed to have a roof consisting of an enormous slab of limestone

a reply to: username74

A labyrinth is a tunnel type of structure/design.
Roofing a labyrinth wouldn't be impossible.
I think before the first pyramids. The Egyptians were already using big rocks to build with.
But. There is a limit. When building a more regular shaped wall and roof building.
They wanted bigger.
Too big to practically roof the base area they were trying to achieve. Without compromising internal usable space.
One tool which may give us a clue to how the idea of the pyramid shape came. IMO is www.youtube.com...
Notice it is a tripod. Ok. Not a four or eight sided shape. But, still enough of a pyramid shape for them to realize at least two important factors about this shape.
1 It has a completely free internal space.
2 It has great load bearing qualities at its center.
As for slabs. I think they were probably used on smaller structures and for paving.
Their shape alone is very limited for moving around. As opposed to blocks which were much easier to work with.
Thanks username74.
At least your trying to discuss this possibility

a reply to: blackcrowe

stop it, please ,i am a builder and carpenter, i know what a labyrinth is, i know how structures and roofs work, intimately. and the pyramid does have eight faces, and tripods are a frame, with a high centre of gravity if you load them, but , yes three sticks are stronger than one stick and slabs are easier to carry manually than blocks,
however, i was talking about this
www.ancient-code.com...
petrie was looking for it as kind of a hobby while he was examining the pyramid
so the roof and floor/ceiling was supposed to be two massive slabs of limestone but theres not much confirmation of this as yet
what possibility are we discussing, again?

a reply to: username74

Thanks.
That was interesting.
We'll have to wait until proper excavation and examination to get a better idea of this site.
Until then. It's guesswork.
Topic of this thread is why the shape. and, could it be done by humans. And, how.
As for a builder. I would like to think you would be interested in how they did it. Without laser tech or cutting discs or cranes etc.
Also. My qualifications are in highway construction.
The fact that i do understand larger scale construction is why i don't see the mystery or magic

originally posted by: blackcrowe
A labyrinth is a tunnel type of structure/design.
Roofing a labyrinth wouldn't be impossible.

There's a huge network of tunnels underneath the step pyramid of Djoser (runs for about 3 miles and is roofed over and has false doors and other interesting things. So yes, you're correct... they did build them and did cover them up with other buildings.

I think before the first pyramids. The Egyptians were already using big rocks to build with.

The first "pyramids"... depends on how far back you trace their evolution. If you're talking four-sided pointy-topped things, then that's 300 years before Giza. If you're talking the mastaba tombs (and some of these are larger than the pyramid of Unas where some of the Pyramid Texts are found) then those tombs go back another thousand years.

You can see from this article on one (from the 5th dynasty, while they were building pyramids for kings)that they were quite elaborate and featured rooms and columns
(link)

It is thought that the design was suggested by the primal hill from which the gods were born OR from the rays of sunlight at dawn. There's no textual evidence to favor either of these, so that's someone's speculation - but it did have some sort of association with divinity and with light.

a reply to: Byrd

Thanks.
I respect the effort you make in your threads and posts.
"The first "pyramids"... depends on how far back you trace their evolution. If you're talking four-sided pointy-topped things, then that's 300 years before Giza. If you're talking the mastaba tombs (and some of these are larger than the pyramid of Unas where some of the Pyramid Texts are found) then those tombs go back another thousand years. "
This point alone emphasizes my statements.
The Mastaba tombs aren't or weren't pyramids. But they were made from big stones. Which is my point.
The methods they used construct the pyramids was already being used before the concept of the pyramid.
The pyramid shape however large or small. Older or newer. Is a standard model.(Except for the trail and error used to find the best angles). With unhindered internal space and central load bearing qualities. No roof, pillars, slabs etc to consider. This became the possibility to build bigger.
Again.
www.ancientegypt.co.uk...
Not strong enough for me.
I believe the concept of the pyramid for the Egyptians meant they could now build bigger and bigger. The fact they used them for their religious beliefs to me is irrelevent. They could just as easily made them into a market or something else. But. They offered grandure to/ for their beliefs.

originally posted by: blackcrowe
The Mastaba tombs aren't or weren't pyramids. But they were made from big stones. Which is my point.
The methods they used construct the pyramids was already being used before the concept of the pyramid.

Quite so. I don't think this occurs to many people. And the elegance of some of the tombs of the nobles (the stonework, statuary, facade carvings) is somehow glossed over.

The Egyptians were quite proficient at stone working and stone hauling by the time of the pyramids.

I believe the concept of the pyramid for the Egyptians meant they could now build bigger and bigger. The fact they used them for their religious beliefs to me is irrelevent. They could just as easily made them into a market or something else. But. They offered grandure to/ for their beliefs.

They built for the gods in stone. They built for humans in mud brick. And yes, the grandeur of the stone is breathtaking.

a reply to: Byrd

Difference between mud and stone is. Stone is forever.

a reply to: blackcrowe

ah. ok , sorry buddy. sure it was done by humans, mathematically theres probably others (aliens)out there but not here, not now. thats all just to # your head and disempower you to make you a pliant citizen, cos religions not the moral code anymore. really the discussion on all this forum should be what was going on up till, including and after the last couple of ice ages, weve been we for 200000 y, and other types of homos have come and gone. the braided streams of primate dna s in the delta of life and time, so you gotta ask , the last time we had a dose of cosmic doom, what happened, what did we lose or change, different technology trees, did they see it coming?, glaciers wiping the hemispheres and corrosion times of metals, or were we just tossing it off until 8000 y ago?

a reply to: blackcrowe

ah. ok , sorry buddy. sure it was done by humans, mathematically theres probably others (aliens)out there but not here, not now. thats all just to # your head and disempower you to make you a pliant citizen, cos religions not the moral code anymore. really the discussion on all this forum should be what was going on up till, including and after the last couple of ice ages, weve been we for 200000 y, and other types of homos have come and gone. the braided streams of primate dna s in the delta of life and time, so you gotta ask , the last time we had a dose of cosmic doom, what happened, what did we lose or change, different technology trees, did they see it coming?, glaciers wiping the hemispheres and corrosion times of metals, or were we just tossing it off until 8000 y ago?

a reply to: username74

oops

a reply to: blackcrowe

"The fact that i do understand larger scale construction is why i don't see the mystery or magic"
oh missed that, sorry
its just that its so precise
highways
powerstations
thats the only time we build to this standard
so why this creation?
how?
check the links in the link
www.abovetopsecret.com...
by the by take the time to check out petries drawings on the link in the op, a thing of beauty

a reply to: username74

I can see where you're coming from in the notion of life elsewhere.
As for. Have they been here a long time ago. Is speculation to say the best. There simply is no evidence of this. Despite, unproven claims and hoaxes. Which do the cause no good at all.
And, for all the major structures around the world. I can see how was it humanly possible. As these structures are actually a very basic design. Using very basic methods.
I did enjoy reading you and Phage in another thread both ignorantly discussing string lines. Your lack of knowledge made you dismiss this method from being viable. Although it is actually more viable than anything else.
I will bore the f@ck out of you if you want me to explain it. But, i will if you want.
After watching so much crap about the myths. Which, i too believed at one point. After listening to my brothers ridiculous claims. None of the other theories make sense.
And i can see that these mega structures are not so special after all. Just big.

a reply to: username74

Just been having a look at the thread you linked.
The link you showed of the inside of the pyramid with the gallery and chamber etc. This is exactly what i'm saying about having a large open space. It can be designed any way you want it. There's only the size of the pyramid to stop your imagination. Leaving you free to design these obscure angles etc.

a reply to: blackcrowe

did i discuss string with ignorance? i hope not. you ll have to correct me. its not so practical over long distance, but you can sight it with poles and winding sticks, taking levels as you go. but still

a reply to: blackcrowe

so you are telling me they just wanted a big room?

a reply to: blackcrowe

As for a builder. I would like to think you would be interested in how they did it. Without laser tech or cutting discs or cranes etc.

and as to that i share your curiosity. some things are just soft tech we have no use for and forgot. other features are more disturbing and shouldnt be there, but theres not so many as this site would lead you to believe, and there are some intercontinental parallels that stand out too, oh and the moving positioning and shaping of some of the worlds larger stones
we are certainly missing some tricks and motives