The Odds of Life Occurring by Random Chance and The Odds of Sexual Reproduction and Genetics

If life begins by a random chance combination of inert matter - The odds of this occurrence should be calculable, right

And if the early organisms began to divide and produce more and more complex forms of life, it should be calculable as to what the odds are
that sexual reproduction would occur so as to reproduce in a manner causing genetic combinations producing different mutations and variations, right


So geniuses of the life comes by accident school of thought - Please give us a rough idea of what the odds may be of this happening
- And also tell us the odds of a sex/genetic matrix would also develop by random chance.?


Certainly we would be prone to think these occurrences would not be very common - But how uncommon are they ?

If we reproduce conditions to the Planet Earth say millions or billions of years ago when life supposedly started here - Would life occur again ?

Will life always, occasionally, or very rarely occur, given the same, or a very similar set of circumstances


Of course you can see what I'm getting at - Is life, sex, and genetics all based upon random chance accidents with no intrinsic meaning to them ?

Or is life part of an intelligence, possibly inherent to existence itself and not necessarily by a creator ?

Is there an a priori [logically preceding] intelligence matrix backing all existence ? - Or is it all random chance





“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

a reply to: AlienView

I am not a chemist or biologist, but even with my basic chemistry I know that life did not come by pure chance, because chemistry has a set of rules to follow. This is how I see it: an exponential number of molecules performing an exponential number of combination over millions and millions of years, of course at one point there would be a perfect combination that became the first protein. When that protein started self replicating then life was formed.

This is obviously my simplistic explanation as a non-expert, but the beauty of science is that it's not afraid of saying 'we still don't know'.

It all comes down to faith, belief in what you want it to be
There are many concepts and they will never be resolved this side of our existence
Sometimes you just have to live and let live and let people believe what they think is right no matter how absurd you think their opinion is
Unless you are a fundy of some kind who just can't allow others to have a different opinion

a reply to: AlienView

I've uncovered evidences that the Universe itself follows dna-like material mixing, down to the subatomic level. In an attempt to reach the lowest potential energy, particles exchange bits and "mutate" into new particles.



If this is true, then matter capable of exchanging bits (actual dna) is not such a far stretch.

a reply to: Agartha

I can accept that scenario for the beginning of life - it is possible.

But when sex/genetics comes into the picture, it starts to look like an experiment.

Someone, something, or some intelligent force or power seems to be experimenting with life

And for what reason ? - Inert dumb matter I would not think possesses intelligence -

- So what type of intelligence is backing the experiment

originally posted by: AlienView
If life begins by a random chance combination of inert matter - The odds of this occurrence should be calculable, right?

Why should that follow? Do you think the probability of all probable events is calculable?

And if the early organisms began to divide and produce more and more complex forms of life, it should be calculable as to what the odds are
that sexual reproduction would occur so as to reproduce in a manner causing genetic combinations producing different mutations and variations, right:?

1. Prokaryotes also evolve. Sex is not required for evolution.

2. Sexual reproduction did not evolve in a single mutation, so the question is irrelevant.

3. The odds of any given mutation occurring are incalculable.

So geniuses of the life comes by accident school of thought - Please give us a rough idea of what the odds may be of this happening
- And also tell us the odds of a sex/genetic matrix would also develop by random chance.?

What do you think it would prove if someone actually did this?

Are you perchance labouring under the delusion, very common among the ignorant, that evolutionary theory says species evolve by random chance?

Will life always, occasionally, or very rarely occur, given the same, or a very similar set of circumstances?

Science has no answer to this. However, the sheer variety and opportunism of terrestrial life suggests that once life evolves, it occupies every available niche. You can't extrapolate from evolution to abiogenesis, though, which is what you're trying to do.

Here's my suggestion: go away, take the time to actually understand evolutionary theory and what it applies to, then come back here to ATS and write something intelligent about it.

Astronomically high odds against.

How many planets are there in this Galaxy alone? How many Galaxies are there? When crunching those numbers then the odds of it happening as speculated greatly improves.

Earth is apparently the Galactic lotto winner.

a reply to: SLAYER69

And this is assuming that all life in the universe is similar to Earth's.

Which I don't believe. The minute you have building blocks which may act like DNA bases, which essentially boils down to exchange of information, then life is possible.

Right here on Earth we have extremophile life forms - this by itself disproves the assumption that life may only exist inside a tight and narrow "Goldilocks" region.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: SLAYER69

This is assuming that all life in the universe is similar to Earth's.

Not necessarily, I was thinking in my mind as I wrote that.

"Any" form of life. Earth being just the one example of where this occurred we know about presently.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Exactly.

(You do know I am agreeing with you right? )

Life can take so many forms, some of which we most probably couldn't even fathom - life is most probably more common in the universe than we imagine.

a reply to: swanne



Atmospheric Gaseous floating/flying Jelly Fish type beings, could for example theoretically evolve and thrive in gaseous Giants outside of said 'Goldilocks" zones.

Water flows downhill. No one makes it do so.
Same thing with life. Given enough time, the right ingredients and environment and it's inevitable, rather than improbable.

Water flows downhill, life supposedly flows up
Sounds like your own argument let's you down
Funny that

a reply to: SprocketUK

originally posted by: AlienView

But when sex/genetics comes into the picture, it starts to look like an experiment.

How does it look like an experiment?
Sexual reproduction allows for new genetic combinations which can increase adaptability to all sorts of environments.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Water flows downhill, life supposedly flows up

Care to explain what you mean by 'life flows up' please?

a reply to: AlienView

Thats the rub. How life sprang from lifelessness, divided and replicated is easily explained.... not.

a reply to: Agartha

This is how I see it: an exponential number of molecules performing an exponential number of combination over millions and millions of years, of course at one point there would be a perfect combination that became the first protein. When that protein started self replicating then life was formed.

Now all you have to explain is how that single protein learned how to divide itself. In the protein lifespan that is.

Shoots the 'over millions of years' theory full of holes.

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah, unfortunately that millions of years thing can be an issue, it's easy remedied though, we can just say hundreds of millions or billions of billions.
See, your argument is sorted out now

We just have to add more zeros behind the first number because that obviously fixes all the problems

a reply to: Raggedyman

Thanks for the chuckle.

The odds of a single organism springing from lifeless elements, then developing in its lifespan the ability to replicate and reproduce would be akin to winning three Lotto super jackpots in a row.

a reply to: intrptr

How about hundreds of billions, I can go higher

As impossible as it is, it's easier to believe than an all knowing creator did it, also there are no ramifications for our actions

Can lead a horse to water

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: intrptr

How about hundreds of billions, I can go higher

As impossible as it is, it's easier to believe than an all knowing creator did it, also there are no ramifications for our actions

Can lead a horse to water

Imo, life was brought here. Interstellar arks like johhnny appleseeds, terra forming ships filled with eggs, seeds and frozen embryos, a 'tree of life', whirling dervishes and stuff.