Missing Christian scripture - Enoch Parables - The parable of the mountains - part 1

a reply to: pthena

I already admitted I made a mistake, you gonna rub it in? J.K.

a reply to: DefeatDeceit888

Just remember that religion isn't the church of Jesus Christ and is disguised pagan sun worship even if you aren't Catholic and use the Bible.

Do you oppose sun worship? Plutarch was a priest of Apollo at Delphi. Apollo(sun god) was by that time considered to be the One God (Greek Monotheism), since some many years before, can't recall the date, 200s something maybe?

a reply to: DefeatDeceit888
No. Not rubbing it in. Once a post is made, you can't delete it, just the contents. I wrote pretty much what he wrote, posted it, only then did I see that he already posted. Sorry.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: DefeatDeceit888

Just remember that religion isn't the church of Jesus Christ and is disguised pagan sun worship even if you aren't Catholic and use the Bible.

Do you oppose sun worship? Plutarch was a priest of Apollo at Delphi. Apollo(sun god) was by that time considered to be the One God (Greek Monotheism), since some many years before, can't recall the date, 200s something maybe?

Not in the slightest I don't oppose nature worshippers at all, most natural thing in the world really.

I liked the Greek mysteries from what I can gather.

And all I have a problem with is that the Church took the teachings of a man and turned him into a sun god which doesn't sound like something he would have wanted.

And that people don't realize it.

But, no, I am part Pagan. I am a huge syncretist myself but I just see Christians hating on Pagans sometimes or another religion and bring it up to get people thinking.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: DefeatDeceit888
No. Not rubbing it in. Once a post is made, you can't delete it, just the contents. I wrote pretty much what he wrote, posted it, only then did I see that he already posted. Sorry.

It's cool I put JK ate the end because you are cool and I didn't want you to think I was serious. I made a mistake I can deal with it and it will happen again. I could make an excuse but I just wasn't thinking.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: DefeatDeceit888

Just remember that religion isn't the church of Jesus Christ and is disguised pagan sun worship even if you aren't Catholic and use the Bible.

Do you oppose sun worship? Plutarch was a priest of Apollo at Delphi. Apollo(sun god) was by that time considered to be the One God (Greek Monotheism), since some many years before, can't recall the date, 200s something maybe?

I think Plutarch lived late first early second century because he was a contemporary of the Biblical author Luke, possibly Luke himself but we will never know exactly because Alexandria was torched.

At least we have his Isis and Osiris interpretation, that is invaluable and he states in the intro that these stories are all allegorical and shouldn't be taken literally. I think it was like a movement to explain away all Yahweh's mischief.

The Gnostics kind of perfected it.

a reply to: DefeatDeceit888

It's cool I put JK

JK means joking?

I don't know anything much about the Apollo cult, or Greek Mysteries. I can't reconstruct in my imagination what Apollo centered monotheism would have even been like. I just don't know. And I was only made aware of it a couple years ago and then didn't research into it.

It only came up in a criticism of secret societies founded in the Renaissance period who had their own version. But that would be their version which probably wasn't much like the original. See, I've got more speculation than information.

a reply to: pthena

I don't know much either about Greek mysteries, not many do.

JK is just kidding.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon

Well, Jesus said to do it in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. To me that means nobody can be dogmatic about it, then it makes it about what is said rather than what it signifies. That the believer identifies with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Not a big deal for me. Peter said to do it one way, Jesus said to do it the other way. The important thing is doing it.

Well heres the problem.... a few pages later...

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Sounds like a command to me...

And yet NO ONE, uses that formula afterwords in the NT... not even a mention of it

I contend that Jesus never made that statement, it was written into the story years afterwords by a trinitarian scribe

No one recognizes that formula in the entire NT save 1 John 5:7... which is a well known forgery

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

OK, I got my copy back from my Christian Brother.

The most reliable, well researched version I know of is:

THE OLD TESTAMENT PSEUDEPIGRAPHA VOLUME ONE
Apocalyptic Literature and Testaments

EDITED BY James B Charlesworth

1. (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch (Second Century B.C.--First Century A.D.) E Isaac* p 5

2 (Slavonic Apocalypse of) Enoch (Late First Century A.D.) with A ppendix: 2 Enoch in Merilo Pravednoe F. I. Andersen* p 91

3 (Hebrew Apocalypse of) Enoch (Fifth to sixth Century A.D.) P. Alexander* p 223

*TRANSLATORS

Published by
THE ANCHOR BIBLE REFERENCE LIBRARY & DOUBLEDAY

It was not cheap but I forget the price.

As noted above, It contains 1 ENOCH, 2 ENOCH & 3 ENOCH.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

I wouldn't say they were "removed." More like not included. And I'm sure for good reason.

I come to the discussion late, but for those who would rather have it read to them than read it themselves, here is an audio version of Enoch....

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

Originally posted by TheInfiniteFantastic
Why were the scriptures about Enoch (Noah's great grand father) removed from the early biblical writings?

One reason given by the church for not accepting the “Book of Enoch” is because of the issue, of Angels having sex with humans. But this seems a strange reason considering Genesis 6:4…

There was clearly a push by a few church Fathers, to include the “Book of Enoch”, Many of the Church Fathers, like Irenaeus and Clement gave the book their seal of approval, but as Tertullian mentioned, it was the Jewish disdain of the book, which seems to be the more telling factor, for it’s rejection.


- JC

ecumenism of Enoch? these guides is really no differences, they are all of one blue blood and controversy for is cattle, to their slaves of red blood

a reply to: Akragon

Nonsense.

Your 'understanding'

of the 'sourcing' and reliability of the New Testament text

virtually always shocks me for its LACK of thoroughness and solid scholarship.

a reply to: Joecroft

Some have hypothesized that because of the verses in Enoch clearly prophesying the coming Messiah as Christ . . . the Jews had to reject it.

Plausible.

I'm just a firm believer that God insured that the books HE wanted in were in; and those HE did not want in, were left out.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Some have hypothesized that because of the verses in Enoch clearly prophesying the coming Messiah as Christ . . . the Jews had to reject it.

Plausible.

Yeah that’s the official reason given, I was hoping someone would pick up on that fact…

It’s strange though because I can understand the Jews rejecting it when the book is prophesying the coming Messiah…but that can’t also be the same reason for the Church fathers to reject it…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

IIRC

They just didn't believe that the

"God-breathed-ness" as up to par to be included as part of the Canon.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Akragon

Nonsense.

Your 'understanding'

of the 'sourcing' and reliability of the New Testament text

virtually always shocks me for its LACK of thoroughness and solid scholarship.

Nonsense?

Father, son, holy spirit... Point out where they're all mentioned...

One or two... Obviously... Where else are all three mentioned?

And where is the trinitarian formula used in baptism as matthew's passage suggests?