Chemtrails over Amsterdam the Netherlands Juli 6 2016

originally posted by: jaamaan
a reply to: Zaphod58

Well the skies did not seem to be filled with those trails so much some decades ago.
Maybe it is the increase in air traffic since those days.
But that is why I ask myself these questions.

That and changes in the type of engine aircraft use

Can some one tell me why these contrails, that seem to create this film layer over time, do not join up with the other clouds ?
Should they not react like the other 'water" particles up there and become 'normal" clouds ?

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Those are contrails. There is a big difference. With a true Chemtrail ....

..... you wouldnt see anything. Contrails are only visible because they .....

......exist.

:-)

originally posted by: jaamaan
a reply to: Zaphod58

Well the skies did not seem to be filled with those trails so much some decades ago.
Maybe it is the increase in air traffic since those days.
But that is why I ask myself these questions.

That's one reason. Another is the wholesale change of engine types used nowadays.

originally posted by: jaamaan
Can some one tell me why these contrails, that seem to create this film layer over time, do not join up with the other clouds ?
Should they not react like the other 'water" particles up there and become 'normal" clouds ?

They do, the whole sky can be filled with cirrus. If your referring specifically to the ones in your video, then those puffy clouds are cumulus clouds, many thousands of feet lower. In fact the cumulus clouds will be closer to you on the ground than they are to the contrails, so they can't possible merge with them.

originally posted by: payt69

originally posted by: Lassiecat
a reply to: Argyll

I disagree, my mother is a Chemyst, she was explaining me this contrail phenomena from age of 5. You cannot have a decent contrail on less than 8000 meters!!! The contrail you might spot on lower altitudes will dissolve in less than a minute.

Even though that's genrally true, there are exceptions:

See, it's just a matter of having the right conditions, and while they generally happen at high altitude, they do come down to ground level occasionally

What you see down clown close to sea level are not really contrails formed by frozen ice crystals from moisture emitted in jet (or recip) exhaust. It is condensation formed by pressure changes. If you accelerate a gas, like air, by making it move around something like a wing, the pressure is reduced. See venturi effect and Bernoulli's Theorem. The ideal gas law says that when you reduce pressure, you cool the gas. Cool air can't hold as much water vapor, so the vapor condenses. You get that generated fog mainly from wings, propellers and deflected control surfaces on very humid days when a small drop in temp locally condenses already saturated air. A high alpha (angle of attack) exacerbates the formation. Since the air quickly decelerates and warms back up with the attendant pressure rise, this fog trail quickly disappears. Actually, if one wants to be hypertechnical, these adiabatic fogs are the true contrails (condensation trails) and the ones at high altitudes should be called "deptrails" since the phase change from gas to ice is called deposition.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Lassiecat

What's a chemyst...I know what a chemist is?

...the same, said in broken English.

a reply to: MissVocalcord

Maybe you are right. Maybe.

a reply to: payt69

Exceptions are always welcome.

Long ago, when I was researching for myself the reality/hoax in chemtrails, I've found the only real valid proof for their existence to be the so called - pollution factor. You can find tons of info like this actually. General researchers, small farmers, conspiracy investigators... many people were concerned about the real damages happening on the land after the so called chemtrails started to appear and be noticed as such in the sky. Until now, no other explanation for the sudden poisoning was found, than the sprayed chemicals. And in some cases the damage were really awful. At one island in south US even the whole micro-climate started to change due to the death of specific part of the flora there... because of the poisoning from the chemicals. The problem really is that whatever is in our trees is in our bodies too...

I doubt that the dubunkers of this type of thread were done their homework on researching this topic, otherwise they would just not debunkig it. An excuse me, but if you do not do your homework on simple and grand matter as chemtrails... just its not too good for the community that way, how we wound be able to discuss even finer matters reasonably. Impossible.

originally posted by: Lassiecat
a reply to: payt69

Exceptions are always welcome.

Long ago, when I was researching for myself the reality/hoax in chemtrails, I've found the only real valid proof for their existence to be the so called - pollution factor. You can find tons of info like this actually. General researchers, small farmers, conspiracy investigators... many people were concerned about the real damages happening on the land after the so called chemtrails started to appear and be noticed as such in the sky. Until now, no other explanation for the sudden poisoning was found, than the sprayed chemicals. And in some cases the damage were really awful. At one island in south US even the whole micro-climate started to change due to the death of specific part of the flora there... because of the poisoning from the chemicals. The problem really is that whatever is in our tree is in our bodies too...

I doubt that the dubunkers of this type of thread were done their homework on researching this topic, otherwise they would just not debunkig it. An excuse me, but if you do not do your homework on simple and grand matter as chemtrails... just its not too good for the community that way...

Wow. Ok well, I'll tell you what. You have my attention if you can answer me this simple question.

How do you or any of the researchers know that the pollution came from 30k feet above? How did you seperate it from ground based? Please don't ignore me. If you can answer me then ill listen to chemmies.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

The mass of evidence cannot be confirmed with certainty. But some reports were done very well, examples were taken from the flora, than examined. They found sudden change in the chemical balance of the outer layers of fauna. Professional agricultural experts were confused, because they new this is not normal, and they were not seeing the reason. Well, the more smart of them could get that boom in chemtrails might have to do something with it.

Like this lady (who is not even a professional but just... a lady)



It is even not a top-secret. Here they say: "Yes we spray your skies to make weather better"
if you hurry move to minute 1:50

a reply to: Lassiecat

And that's the problem. People see a problem on the ground and jump to the conclusion that the only thing different are the contrails overhead.

Without proving that nothing else has changed, and sampling the trails overhead you can't say that aircraft flying overhead are the cause of something happening on the ground.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes. A lot of people. Some of them with pretty high IQ, never-mind their occupation is agriculture. The back-yard lady types are just the top of the ice-cream. Do not expect me to do the research for you. I had enough headache doing it for myself back then, when chemtrails were actually taking their boom.

a reply to: Lassiecat

It doesn't matter how smart they are or what their business is. The only way that anyone can prove chemtrails, or that the cause of any problem is aircraft flying overhead is to sample the air at the altitude the aircraft are flying, and to take samples from trails to look for things that don't belong.

Something could have changed at ground level that they don't know about, because it's not right by where this is happening. Or something could have been released from power plants that polluted the area, that they covered up. There are dozens of explanations that don't involve aircraft. Enough that you can't just say, there are more aircraft, it's their fault.

I've researched chemtrails, and I've actually worked on real aircraft. I know what they're capable of carrying payload wise, and what it would take to leave trails that are claimed to be chemtrails and it just doesn't add up.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Lassiecat

It doesn't matter how smart they are or what their business is. The only way that anyone can prove chemtrails, or that the cause of any problem is aircraft flying overhead is to sample the air at the altitude the aircraft are flying, and to take samples from trails to look for things that don't belong.

Something could have changed at ground level that they don't know about, because it's not right by where this is happening. Or something could have been released from power plants that polluted the area, that they covered up. There are dozens of explanations that don't involve aircraft. Enough that you can't just say, there are more aircraft, it's their fault.

I've researched chemtrails, and I've actually worked on real aircraft. I know what they're capable of carrying payload wise, and what it would take to leave trails that are claimed to be chemtrails and it just doesn't add up.

Quoted for agreement.

TO LASSIECAT

As zaphod said, makes little to no difference how intelligent they are. There are scientific methods to follow in such tests. They are nothing new and the processes are fairly standard.

How can you not see that there is NO way at all they can separate the two sources?Especially given that the pollutants in question Also come from a multitude of ground based sources and can come from many thousands of miles away.

I've mentioned it a few times before, but I live in london and in the 30 years I've been here, on a number of occasions the city has woken up to cars being coated in a very fine dust which turns out comes from the Sahara. Strong winds blew it all the way here. So now imagine how far wind can carry smaller sized pollutants. On top of that, think how far the extremely fast winds up at 30k feet can take pollutants. Some suggest it could take months or years to fall to ground level.

This isn't theory or some whacky idea we have, the is the way it is. Saying, well they are smart, they must have figured out a way to separate the two sources is a cop out as well as being wrong.

And I would also like to mention that a lot of the members who debunk chemtrails are also extremely intelligent as well. Not naming names,but the are very knowledgeable.

And finally, with all due respect, I would suggest that had you spent all that research time reading the pages in this sub forum and checking any debunking facts yourself (no one is asking anyone yo accept what they say blindly), then that would have been real, honest research into this conspiracy.

Sorry mate. You can't believe what you want but if you read any chemtrail "news" site you are being lied to.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

a reply to: Zaphod58

So, goverment publicly announcesL chemicals are sprayed for "the good of the Earth" "to save the agroculture" "Save the disbalance climate" and so on...
Then, separate individuals and groups of individuals, test their newly polluted crops/soil/trees to find an extreme excess of the SAME. I repeat - THE SAME chemicals barium/aluminium( + more), in the OUTER. I repeat. OUTER layer of their plants, or in the top surfice layer of the soil. And you tell me that I need more proof>>to validate chemtrail phenomenom as real? Well, call me cheap but thats good enough for me. If you want fly into a chemtrail and test it yourself, I am not that far dreaming. I am not expert neither in aviation, yet few simple facts connected create conspiray. Pretty solid conspiracy.

EDIT: Maybe the toothfairie did it.

a reply to: Lassiecat

And the person that was talking in your video later came out and said chemtrails don't exist. Rosalind Peterson was a former government employee at the time. The government has never admitted to chemtrails being sprayed for any reason. The closest they've come is NASA releasing lithium I the ionosphere.

I have 28 years of experience actually working on aircraft, and not one aircraft I've ever heard of was capable of carrying nearly enough of anything to leave trails hundreds of miles long.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Alright so its employee. For me is fine to count it goevrmental. For you maybe not. God Can't make everybody happy.

a reply to: Lassiecat

She was speaking for herself, and later said there is no evidence for chemtrails.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Lassiecat



I have 28 years of experience actually working on aircraft, and not one aircraft I've ever heard of was capable of carrying nearly enough of anything to leave trails hundreds of miles long.

So you can't remake few hundreds old boing to carry a reseovair instead of passangers? Just a wild guess, really forgot what a smarter person than me had replid to such a acussations before... (and there was some)