Chicago shootings: More than 60 shot during holiday weekend

The police are in a no win situation...

They know who all the gangbangers, thugs, and miscreants are in the community. The problem is they can't go an bust their heads on the corner lest you get all the grandmothers and "revrunds" coming out the woodwork complaining that their baby didindoonuffin.

If the police don't do anything, they get accused of not caring. If they do round up the thugs, they get accused of being abusive and racist.

At some point, you just have to say screw it.

Prosecutors won't throw the book at the thugs caught with weapons because all the community activist start complaining about the system not being fair. I've seen this with my own eyes when called for jury duty for a kid with a gun charge.

The situation in the black community is a state of emergency, but politics and self-dealing prevent the black community and its leaders from doing anything about it because it exposes the failures of their allegiance to the liberal political machine over the past fifty years.

a reply to: rival

I don't think so, what I think it is especially here in Chicago people from all over the world had heard the stories of Al Capone , and they dramatize those stories in their own mind and then they come here thinking they are going to be the next Al Capone. I can tell you honestly from the perspective of someone who was born raised and lived their whole life here that I have witnessed this many times, people like me who have lived here since birth don't want to hear this crap from the thugs coming here. I used to do the DUKW or duck tours here in Chicago, all of my stories that I used to tell were architectural in nature, but the first thing that the tourists used to ask about was Al Capone, and I used to tell them that Chicago has a much greater history than one stupid criminal.

a reply to: carewemust

I disagree with that because criminals will commit violence with Molotov cocktails or something else and that leaves good people at the mercy of the criminals, the only thing that can stop a bad guy is a good guy.

a reply to: Jaxsmash

never been to the place myself, but it has always had a history of shootings over decades

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: FlyingWhale
I've never seen what the shooting statistics were before the firearm ban. Does anyone know? It would be interesting to know if the shootings went up, or down. Maybe the law was passed because of all of the shootings that have been going on all along. Another one of those "Look we did something!" laws.

In regard to entire countries, shootings went down.

In regard to laws passed by state or region, they went up. People would just buy next door.

Does not work like that, if you purchase a firearm in a state that you are not a resident in, the transfer must go thru an FFL in your state.

So to break it down for the firearm law ignorant.... I live in Floirida, if I am in any other state, and I decide I want to purchase a gun at a gun shop, or gun show, I can buy it, but I must have the seller ship it to a Federal Firearms License holder in Florida. Then I complete an ATF form answering questions, undergo my background check pay the transfer fee and take possesion.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: carewemust

Bring up the Chicago violence subject, and people shrug their shoulders and say, "Yep..it's terrible. Did the CUBS win last night??".

Yep. If it happened in a country club there would be widespread panic. No pun intended.

That would be way worse!

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: xuenchen

Well, if there were less guns, less people woiuld be shot. You can't empty the city of people, who are aparently shooting. You have to remove the guns.

Not sure of that, people would just turn to knives, or something else.

Perhaps, they should just try a novel experiment, issue every citizen, man, woman, and child, a free firearm.

See what happens when all have guns. Typically, a person with a gun likes to shoot people who can't shoot back.

Will things change when everyone can respond to the shooters?

At the very least, the shooters should all exterminate each other very quickly, leaving only a city of people unwilling to kill. Then, the rest can live in peace, and the guns can be returned since they are no longer needed.

a reply to: Nochzwei

Refer to my statement 2 posts above yours

a reply to: AMPTAH

I agree, an armed society is a polite society.

What's with the obsession with Chicago.

It doesn't even make the top 25, does it?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

because they have all the gun laws that democrats want and it has the highest violent gun crime rates

originally posted by: carewemust
If you make guns (except for shotguns) accessible only to the military and to law enforcement, OVER TIME, gun-related violence will decline.

Does anyone disagree with that?

Yes, I do. It's a flawed assumption.

Such a thing will never happen. There will always be those willing to do whatever it takes to get guns, one way or another and you will never get them just in the hands of the military and law enforcement, and then you are making the assumption that if you do, the military and law enforcement won't then move right into committing crimes against the citizenry with their power.

It has happened over and over again all across the world wherever the citizens are disarmed in the face of armed law enforcement/military might.

a reply to: SM2

Sure. I suspect it's another reason, as there are many other places with even more stringent laws and higher rates, but we'll leave it at that.

originally posted by: carewemust
If you make guns (except for shotguns) accessible only to the military and to law enforcement, OVER TIME, gun-related violence will decline.

Does anyone disagree with that?

Gee I don't know, Lets ask the Britts. Guns have been banned there since forever. Not even their cops carry guns for the most part, and yet the drug dealers and gang bangers still have guns. The fact is that if drugs and people can be smuggled across the border so can guns. Ever hear of what's called a ghost gun. It's a gun made in Mexico that has the makers mark of a Glock of S&W or what ever with a serial number and everything. The only way to tell the real from the ghost is to run the serial number. This country, like many others is flooded with them. So you could shut down the stores and ban every kind of firearm and stop NOTHING. The problem is not the gun it's what you do with it. A sharp stick can kill, so can a rock should we ban them too. You want to do something that matters try punishing the one who commits the crime. I see it all the time, a person kills someone then claims they were high or drunk and the jury says " OH you poor man " ( or woman ) and send them to some treatment center or 2 to 5 years in jail. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. If you truly went to have an effect make murder a life crime the first time every time. If you take a life you forfit your own. I don't care how, either life in PRISON (not jail) or a needle in the are. Until we put a stop to the bleeding hearts in the justice system, and stop letting dangerous people back out onto the streets the problem will never go away.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: MikeA
The third person would be entirely unaware of the situation. I think we as a people would have to consider everything we buy because then we are the promoters of war, slavery and poor wages/working conditions. Sorry to hear about your family. Wish I was wrong about this being an emotional/personal topic for you, but emotions are no good for arguments. They aren't logical. I understand what you're saying of course, but I disagree.

It is personal for me but I don't argue my point from an emotional stand point but with logic, and to me the logic is clear. Guns are not the problem, who has the guns is not the problem. The problem is the way those people were raised. If you raise a child to think they are better than everyone else so the laws don't apply to them then violence WILL follow. As I see it their are too many parents who think protecting and defending their child are the same thing. These are the ones who say things like "They only blame my child because >>>" or "My child would never >>>" and they know this because the child said so. I asked my son and he said it was a lie so it's your fault.... Or my own FAV. "My child was a good kid until they started hanging out with that other kid". Two things wrong with that, First: It's up to you, the parent to put a stop to that, and Second: The parents of that other kid are saying the same thing about yours. The truth is if the two had nothing in common they would not hang out together, and if either parent stepped in to stop it then it won't happen.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: SM2

Sure. I suspect it's another reason, as there are many other places with even more stringent laws and higher rates, but we'll leave it at that.

What is this other reason? Are you going to start calling people racists or something? Show me another place that has stricter gun laws that has the amount of gun violence on a consitant basis.

originally posted by: SM2

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: FlyingWhale
I've never seen what the shooting statistics were before the firearm ban. Does anyone know? It would be interesting to know if the shootings went up, or down. Maybe the law was passed because of all of the shootings that have been going on all along. Another one of those "Look we did something!" laws.

In regard to entire countries, shootings went down.

In regard to laws passed by state or region, they went up. People would just buy next door.

Does not work like that, if you purchase a firearm in a state that you are not a resident in, the transfer must go thru an FFL in your state.

So to break it down for the firearm law ignorant.... I live in Floirida, if I am in any other state, and I decide I want to purchase a gun at a gun shop, or gun show, I can buy it, but I must have the seller ship it to a Federal Firearms License holder in Florida. Then I complete an ATF form answering questions, undergo my background check pay the transfer fee and take possesion.

You may have the same flaw in thinking that so many others have. First I live in Arizona and we have no such laws here. I can buy a gun anywhere I want and bring it home, no questions asked. Second you are looking at the problem from the view point of a NON-criminal. If a Florida criminal wants a gun they can go to Mississippi and buy one from someone IN Mississippi and drive back to Florida. Who's going to know? It's not like the criminal is going to tell the ATF where they got it, or that they even have it. In short the only people who are effected buy laws are the ones who don't break them in the first place. If someone commits a murder do you truly think they care about some minor gun law. It's already a crime for felons to have a gun but they still do. It should also mean that them having a gun is an automatic 10 years federal time. Do they get it NO. Why,, because no one wants to enforce the laws we have. The entire problem would shrink to near nothing quick, fast , and in a hurry if we did that. Three strikes and life sounds good but we're not doing it. I've seen shows like COPS where they catch some clown who's carrying a gun and is a felon 10 over and yet has spent just a few years in jail. WHY ????????

a reply to: MikeA

ok, I will amend that, you can not purchase a gun legally in a state you do not reside in and take possesion of it immediately. Doesnt matter what the state says, it's a federal law.

Ok, I looked it up, this statement applies to handguns, which the vast majority of crimes are committed with, especially in Chicago.

www.cabelas.com...

link to a little PDF that summarizes nicely.

originally posted by: SM2
a reply to: MikeA

ok, I will amend that, you can not purchase a gun legally in a state you do not reside in and take possesion of it immediately. Doesnt matter what the state says, it's a federal law.

Ok, I looked it up, this statement applies to handguns, which the vast majority of crimes are committed with, especially in Chicago.

www.cabelas.com...

link to a little PDF that summarizes nicely.

I did read that page but it does say 1968. Most of the stuff no longer applies because new laws have been passed since then. For example I was in Ohio to visit my son when he graduated collage. While there we went to a big name sporting goods store where I bought a 9mm handgun with my Arizona DL. I filled out the paperwork they did the back ground check and I took the gun home. No stops, no third party dealers, no problems. I also gave my son my dirty harry gun when he graduated the police academy. A big cop gun for a cop, I thought it fit. Anyway for that it was in my name here in AZ. all I had to do was write a note that said I gave it to him as a gift, he registered it in his name and that was it. When he did get hired on to the force he had to take it down for the ballistic register so it's on file with his station chief. Now I don't know Florida's laws on the matter but I do know Arizona's. My family has been protecting this country since 1682 with every generation having at least 1 person in the military, law enforcement, or firefighter. I have a direct father to son blood line going back to my multi-great grandfather that served under Washington. His diary is currently on loan to the Smith. I could quote the bill of rights before I could read. So I am very aware of the laws.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong or I'm right only that this has been MY dealings with this issue.

a reply to: SM2

Camden.