FBI Director will be holding a Press Conference at 11AM EST today

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Gryphon66

Its been answered by me, others and Director Comey.

Stop trolling and dragging the thread of topic.


I urge people to double check and verify what you post. You intentionally ignore facts / laws you don't understand and you make false claims about the law and its application.

You're the only one off topic here chief.

Welcome to ignore until you say something on topic.

a reply to: introvert

He knows the only proper place for the storage of classified information is inside a SCIF that meets specific NSA guidelines unless you have a specific NSA approved waiver.

He is just blowing smoke.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RickinVa

Read it Rick.

Before you embarrass yourself further, I implore you.

Lets start over.. you are severely confused.


Are you aware that the National Security Agency is the agency that mandates the rules and regulations concerning the storage and transmittal of all United States Government classified information.

Do you understand that basic simple fact... it has absolutely nothing to do with the Espionage Act.

Place of custody is set forth by NSA... there is no argument against that.

Secret and above classified materials MUST BE KEPT inside a NSA APPROVED container INSIDE a NSA APPROVED room. If you want to tell me that is not true, you have no idea what you are talking about....sorry.

Okay dude ... read back up ... I'm going to spoon feed you just this one time ...

Xcathdra and others here are currently discussing 18 USC § 783. This is known as the Espionage Act. It was first passed in 1917 under the old Federal coding system.

Xcathdra has copied and pasted the text about six or eight times above ... you should be able to find it on your own.

We are specifically discussing section (f).

In section (f) you will find the reference to "place of custody."

You're welcome.

No we are discussing 18 USC 793 section F, whuch is what applies.


The NSA sets the requirement for government servers / secured networks, like SIPRNet, that you apparently know nothing about. SIPRNet IS THE PLACE OF CUSTODY for all classified information for SD with a few exceptions (NIPRNet / JWICS ). Removal of classified material from that system and placed on a non secure server is a violation of 18 USC 793 F.


I urge people to double check and verify what you post. You intentionally ignore facts / laws you don't understand and you make false claims about the law and its application.

a reply to: RickinVa

He knows the only proper place for the storage of classified information is inside a SCIF that meets specific NSA guidelines unless you have a specific NSA approved waiver.

Ok. Was it removed from that proper place, as is mentioned in Section F?

He is just blowing smoke.

Did you click reply on the wrong post?

I'm sure you meant that I was blowing smoke.

originally posted by: introvert
Ok. Was it removed from that proper place, as is mentioned in Section F?

Yes - it was located on Clintons personal server.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: RickinVa

Read it Rick.

Before you embarrass yourself further, I implore you.

Lets start over.. you are severely confused.


Are you aware that the National Security Agency is the agency that mandates the rules and regulations concerning the storage and transmittal of all United States Government classified information.

Do you understand that basic simple fact... it has absolutely nothing to do with the Espionage Act.

Place of custody is set forth by NSA... there is no argument against that.

Secret and above classified materials MUST BE KEPT inside a NSA APPROVED container INSIDE a NSA APPROVED room. If you want to tell me that is not true, you have no idea what you are talking about....sorry.

Okay dude ... read back up ... I'm going to spoon feed you just this one time ...

Xcathdra and others here are currently discussing 18 USC § 783. This is known as the Espionage Act. It was first passed in 1917 under the old Federal coding system.

Xcathdra has copied and pasted the text about six or eight times above ... you should be able to find it on your own.

We are specifically discussing section (f).

In section (f) you will find the reference to "place of custody."

You're welcome.

No we are discussing 18 USC 793 section F, whuch is what applies.


The NSA sets the requirement for government servers / secured networks, like SIPRNet, that you apparently know nothing about. SIPRNet IS THE PLACE OF CUSTODY for all classified information. Removal of classified material from that system and placed on a non secure server is a violation of 18 USC 793 F.


I urge people to double check and verify what you post. You intentionally ignore facts / laws you don't understand and you make false claims about the law and its application.

LOL ... a typo. 18 USC 793 not 783. You finally caught me in something. Bravo!!!

I've linked the law repeatedly. You've cut and pasted repeatedly. We know what we're talking about.

Again, you're citing your own authority which not all of us are buying.

If what you're saying is fact, link the proof. That's simple, isn't it?

a reply to: introvert

"Was it removed from that proper place, as is mentioned in Section F?"


Most certainly since I know what its proper place was.

For starters, and you know this:

All US Government classified information must be protected in accordance with the rules and regulations set forth by the NSA.

One of the most basic rules is that all digital classified information MUST be protected and stored on CLASSIFIED NETWORKS that are protected by a Type 1 NSA approved encryption device.

Hillary Clinton had no NSA approved encryption device, she had no NSA approved type 1 key to put in it, and she had no SCIF built in her residence that met NSA approval.

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: introvert

All US Government classified information must be protected in accordance with the rules and regulations set forth by the NSA.

Another blatant mistake:

Executive Order 13526

This order prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information, including information relating to defense against transnational terrorism. Our democratic principles require that the American people be informed of the activities of their Government. Also, our Nation's progress depends on the free flow of information both within the Government and to the American people. Nevertheless, throughout our history, the national defense has required that certain information be maintained in confidence in order to protect our citizens, our democratic institutions, our homeland security, and our interactions with foreign nations. Protecting information critical to our Nation's security and demonstrating our commitment to open Government through accurate and accountable application of classification standards and routine, secure, and effective declassification are equally important priorities. Now, Therefore, I, Barack Obama, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

originally posted by: Indigo5

I think he only plays a Billionaire on TV.

This is why he wont release his tax returns...this is why the city of NY issues him a tax break for those making less than 500k annually.

That's just a game played by all smart businessmen. To pay the least tax, you've got to arrange your affairs so that you have the minimum income possible.

The thing is, any tax paid to the government, is an opportunity loss for investment that would produce returns.

Just like how "compounding" can quickly increase your net worth, the "tax" when "compounded" represents the true loss to net worth that occurs when the government takes it's "annual" cut.

Better to delay the payment of taxes to the government, and keep that tax money if possible, let it compound over time, and then pay the government later at some future date.

Every trader learns one basic lesson when trading stocks, bonds, or foreign exchange, real estate, or anything.

To win 50% return on capital is not the same as losing 50% on capital. When you lose 50% of $100, you've now got $50, and it then takes 100% win return to just get back to even. If the gov takes 50% in tax this year, you need to make 100% next year, just to get back to the capital base you had before the gov took it's cut. By delaying the payment of tax, you get to "compound" the returns faster and grow wealth quicker, and end up paying a smaller portion of your wealth in tax, even though you're paying the government more in absolute terms at a later date.

So, all smart businessmen aim to invest their money in such a way that it is "tied up" making non-taxable returns. They do this in various ways. Investing in real estate, is one way, since it's a long term investment, that only pays the tax when you sell years later.

That's why The Donald doesn't appear to have much money. He has no "cash". Cash is not earning anybody anything in the bank. He has no "income". Income is cash flow that is taxable, and reduces the ability to grow wealth.

All of Donald's money is tied up in long term investments.

He would have to take out a loan to get cash, or sell some assets.

But, if he sold assets, then he'd immediately have to pay tax on whatever cash he produces this way, since he'd be realizing his gains, again suboptimal for him.

The Donald said publicly, he pays the least in taxes that is possible.

However, like any smart businessman, he is not eager for everybody to see exactly how he does it.

As a courier, I used to carry Top Secret material to FBI HQ all the time.. we always used two people when possible, but we did have a NSA approved waiver for single carry.

Material was placed a courier pouch.. that gee golly guess what? Had to meet strict NSA guidelines for carrying classified material... it had to be a certain thickness, take so many minutes to cut through, lock must be able to withstand lock picking for x amount of minutes etc.

And again, all digital classified US Government information must be protected by a NSA approved Type 1 encryption device just like this one:

gdmissionsystems.com...

Comment from the cheap seats:
Guy's...your back and forth debate is interesting and informative to follow...but your animosity and snark is really getting in the way your points.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Why yes you did make a huge ole mistake!!

The EO sets forth what can and will be classified. nothing more.

Once that information is classified, the NSA sets forth the rules and regulations regarding its safe keeping, storage, destruction, transmittal etc.

Once again, you are more than welcome.

Since I can't get an answer out of either of our resident "experts" I guess I'll have to provide:

The Federal system of classification and protection of information related to National Security is routinely established by Presidential Executive Order; as noted above, the current EO that is in place is 13526

Surprisingly, all of quibbling going on here is addressed in this document ... isn't it strange that local security experts don't seem to know that ...

The relevant section to our current discussion is codified in (appropriately) Part 4 - Safeguarding

Under 4.1

(a) A person may have access to classified information provided that: (1) a favorable determination of eligibility for access has been made by an agency head or the agency head's designee; (2) the person has signed an approved nondisclosure agreement; and (3) the person has a need-to-know the information. (b) Every person who has met the standards for access to classified information in paragraph (a) of this section shall receive contemporaneous training on the proper safeguarding of classified information and on the criminal, civil, and administrative sanctions that may be imposed on an individual who fails to protect classified information from unauthorized disclosure. (c) An official or employee leaving agency service may not remove classified information from the agency's control or direct that information be declassified in order to remove it from agency control. (d) Classified information may not be removed from official premises without proper authorization. (e) Persons authorized to disseminate classified information outside the executive branch shall ensure the protection of the information in a manner equivalent to that provided within the executive branch. (f) Consistent with law, executive orders, directives, and regulations, an agency head or senior agency official or, with respect to the Intelligence Community, the Director of National Intelligence, shall establish uniform procedures to ensure that automated information systems, including networks and telecommunications systems, that collect, create, communicate, compute, disseminate, process, or store classified information: (1) prevent access by unauthorized persons; (2) ensure the integrity of the information; and (3) to the maximum extent practicable, use: (A) common information technology standards, protocols, and interfaces that maximize the availability of, and access to, the information in a form and manner that facilitates its authorized use; and (B) standardized electronic formats to maximize the accessibility of information to persons who meet the criteria set forth in section 4.1(a) of this order.

You're welcome.

a reply to: RickinVa

As a matter of fact, why don't you take a whole 10 minutes, read the EO and then come back here and tell us where it states how thick the walls must be, what type of conduit must be used to build a SCIF to safeguard that classified information...

It is not covered under the Executive Order.

a reply to: Gryphon66

And what exactly does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You know nothing about classified information and it shows very badly. You really should educate yourself.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You should have read and understood the entire E.O.

Sec. 6.2. General Provisions. 
(a)   Nothing in this order shall supersede any requirement made by or under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended, or the National Security Act of 1947, as amended. “Restricted Data” and “Formerly Restricted Data” shall be handled, protected, classified, downgraded, and declassified in conformity with the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended, and regulations issued under that Act.
(b)   The Director of National Intelligence may, with respect to the Intelligence Community and after consultation with the heads of affected departments and agencies, issue such policy directives and guidelines as the Director of National Intelligence deems necessary to implement this order with respect to the classification and declassification of all intelligence and intelligence-related information, and for access to and dissemination of all intelligence and intelligence-related information, both in its final form and in the form when initially gathered. Procedures or other guidance issued by Intelligence Community element heads shall be in accordance with such policy directives or guidelines issued by the Director of National Intelligence. Any such policy directives or guidelines issued by the Director of National Intelligence shall be in accordance with directives issued by the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office under section 5.1(a) of this order.
(c)   The Attorney General, upon request by the head of an agency or the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, shall render an interpretation of this order with respect to any question arising in the course of its administration.
(d)   Nothing in this order limits the protection afforded any information by other provisions of law, including the Constitution, Freedom of Information Act exemptions, the Privacy Act of 1974, and the National Security Act of 1947, as amended. This order is not intended to and does not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person. The foregoing is in addition to the specific provisos set forth in sections 1.1(b), 3.1(c) and 5.3(e) of this order.
(e)   Nothing in this order shall be construed to obligate action or otherwise affect functions by the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(f)   This order shall be implemented subject to the availability of appropriations.
(g)   Executive Order 12958 of April 17, 1995, and amendments thereto, including Executive Order 13292 of March 25, 2003, are hereby revoked as of the effective date of this order.

All of which falls back to the National Security Act of 1947 and is guided by 50 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - NATIONAL SECURITY.

E.O.'s cannot countermand established law. The E.O. you listed and tried to cite has no bearing ion whats being discussed.

Your confused.

In order for someone to have classified information inside their residence, there are many steps that have to be taken.

You have to have a NSA approved SCIF that meets the standards put forth by the intelligence community that have been developed over the years. These guidelines have been in place for decades.

But when it comes to transmittal of classified information, whether it be encrypted over unclassified networks or unencrypted on a classified network.... NSA is the only place you can get the key you need to meet the governments requirement for protection of classified information. That is the bottom line... if you have classified information on a server that is not BEHIND a NSA approved type 1 encryption device, then you are WRONG. Period.

a reply to: RickinVa

Sent you a pm.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Now you're being blatantly ignorant.

The President through Executive order establishes the criteria for our system of classification.

The specific part of that EO that specifically addresses our topic was presneted.

As usual you copy and paste a long section of material, bold something that you think says what you want it too and the say "see"

Nothing about your presentation inspires the least confidence.


I see no further reason to bother with you.

originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: Gryphon66

And what exactly does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You know nothing about classified information and it shows very badly. You really should educate yourself.

Says the guy who's made repeated blatant mistakes here ON THE RECORD. Did you finally figure out what the Espionage Act has to do with the discussion?

Done wasting time with you.