Question for the Spiritually Enlightened

a reply to: Blaine91555

Originally posted by Blaine91555
OK, I'm understanding what you mean better. Good vs. Bad so to speak.

That’s great…because I don’t even think most people who see themselves as “enlightened”, would even use the term “superior”, that’s really the wrong word to describe it.

It’s more a case of having knowledge where someone else doesn’t. And anyone can have more knowledge than someone else on any given subject…so again it’s not about someone seeing themselves as superior in a smug type of way…far from it…

Another way to look at it, is this. Take a Christian for example. A Christian has a certain knowledge and a truth, you could even say it’s their form of enlightenment, which comes from their perspective, and they desire to share that truth, with other people who are non-Christian. Now in no way does that Christian (and I’m thinking in a general sense here because this may not apply to all Christians) see himself or herself as superior to all other non-Christians…It’s the exact same parallel with people who believe or know they are “enlightened”…

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Your interpretation of what that verse means is different than mine I think. I think it's more directed at arrogance and a sense of self importance and superiority being wrong.

Well yes, I agree with what you wrote, and that is definitely 1 aspect of it. It is about instructing people to humble themselves, and to treat others fairly…it’s also trying to get across the idea that making negative judgements against people that are unwarranted or cruel, is unfair and therefore goes against Gods standard…


But there’s also a 2nd aspect to it…

Here’s the verse below just for clarity

“For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

The 2nd aspect is talking about an equal judgment. The reason I said this is about Gods judgement, is because men/women tend to not judge each other fairly or equally in most cases. When one guy does something bad to another, the other guy wants to do something 2 or even 10 times as worse back to him etc…of course a lot depends on the person…

Originally posted by Blaine91555
We lead by example and we best teach by example IMO. The only person we should ever presume to judge or consider as having "bad" judgement is ourselves. If we live our lives in a good way, it will influence those around us in a positive way.

I’m just addressing the highlighted part of your post above…because I agree with the other parts…

You can’t live your whole life that way though i.e. thinking that only you make bad judgments….because throughout your life, you will see people doing bad stuff, and you will have to make the correct judgment that what they are doing is wrong…that’s just life…

I mean, there’s nothing wrong with judging yourself to help keep yourself in check so to speak, but you will have to make judgements about others too…

Also, many people look at this word “judge” from the negative perspective. Now sometimes it is used in sentences to denote a negative context, like in the “do not judge others” quote; which is talking about judging people too harshly or unfairly etc…but there’s also the positive side to judging as well…i.e. where you do actually judge something correctly or fairly to the best of your ability…

Or put another way; God does not want us, to not judge anything…he wants us to not judge others unjustly, but to instead judge them fairly…Although ultimately God will judge us all equally in the end…

Originally posted by Blaine91555
We are all imperfect in some way and most likely in many ways if we are honest with ourselves I think. None of us are truly "enlightened". We best show others a better way, by simply leading our own lives in a positive way.

There are people out there who are truly "enlightened", which just means they have a knowledge or/and experience on some things which are beyond what most people can see. This isn’t arrogance or pride or some guy thinking he’s better than everyone else, it’s just a natural part of life. Some people can be enlightened about Cars, or Science, or Religion, or Love and Relationships…etc…and the list goes on…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Joecroft you have made me reconsider my position on the subject, or at the very least my reply to your post.

It has been my personal experience that I wasn't given or lead to the spark that ignited in my brain about 15 months ago. For me the Eureka moment happened one uneventful evening while I was alone laying down on a bed. I have never argued that it was completely intuitive on my part but there was some kind of "divine" (for a lack of a better word) inspiration involved. I felt comfortable with the assumption that the divinity which was the source could be the collective conscious which in turn is everyone and everything, the creator included.

However beyond that there was a significant amount of activity in my head jelly that contributed to the process and most of that activity was recycled or reformed ideas and concepts that many before me have shared and discussed. Now just because I don't have a guru,priest, etc that pointed out this path whom I could give credit, credit is due none the less.

Could or would I have been able to find that path and approach clearing without all of mankind before me to show me the way? Of course all or most of my ideas are influenced by all of the philosophers, spirituals, authors,artists,scientists,etc who laid the foundation for me thousands of years past.

So is it the duty of those at the front of the back to help those in the back? My original reply was that it's not possible, and if you think it is then you are probably in the middle. But maybe I am in the middle, because I didn't recognize the power of just propagating ideas in a non intrusive and non domineering way. Just because I was too stubborn to listen to those before me doesn't mean others aren't capable. While I still believe that there is still something required that can't be given or shown, who am I to make assumptions about something I don't truly understand anyway?

If everyone would have been like me and kept it mostly to myself I may never have gotten it in the first place.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Certainly so... of course looking back at what one has given before that understanding makes one feel like more of an asshole as that was the ignorant programming. Knowing one can only point at a path even though they all lead to the same eventually when put into actual practice that needs no discussion or words of any kind.

One can feel like a real asshole; but empathy and compassion knowing that struggle lost in that delusional ignorance of programming accepting it as a real true self instead of a conglomerate of ideas based on limited experience that constantly circulate around as truth of full experience of something is a difficult thing to do.

The reason being is those words nor any ever being able to covey truth as they are just instructions on how to carry it out.

If those instructions say to hate anyone those are the wrong instructions, if those instructions say profit off of human misery instead of working to alleviate it wrong instructions...

So take a good look at the instructions or programming others are trying to give you or pass off do they perpetuate this ignorance and delusion in order to spread hate or greed in some manner? If they do you are not helping in spreading those same instructions but hindering hurting and being a problem in ceasing them...

Please do not do such a thing it brings not only suffering to others but also to oneself... the very self one is hoping to be free from in the first place so it runs counter to what one is sitting there trying to learn or achieve.

The energy you put out mental and by speech will return to you just the same as putting physical effort in for some kind of work returns to you as the task being completed... if the mental turns into speech it can and often stops right there, if not it progresses into the physical so what does the mental or speech actually accomplish unless carried out by the body?

Easing suffering of others brings the end of suffering in oneself when it returns to you, ceasing speech that bring hate and suffering in others will cease to return to you, the effect of ceasing it in both body and speech brings a peaceful mind in which thoughts to carry such out by speech or mind slowly fades and ends.

What does it end in? Equanimity never seeing oneself as separate nor above nor below anyone else in the condition known as life itself. It takes delusion, hate and greed to give rise to those distinctions and of course the mind, speech and body to keep carrying them out.

Simply put? Stop it.

TLDR ; the events of Aldous Huxley's death

"'___'-try it
intermuscular
100mm

In a letter circulated to Aldous's friends, Laura Huxley described what followed: 'You know very well the uneasiness in the medical mind about this drug. But no 'authority', not even an army of authorities, could have stopped me then. I went into Aldous's room with the vial of '___' and prepared a syringe. The doctor asked me if I wanted him to give the shot- maybe because he saw that my hands were trembling. His asking me that made me conscious of my hands, and I said, 'No, I must do this.'

An hour later she gave Huxley a second 100mm. Then she began to talk, bending close to his ear, whispering, 'light and free you let go, darling; forward and up. You are going forward and up; you are going toward the light. Willingly and consciously you are going, willingly and consciously, and you are doing this beautifully — you are going toward the light — you are going toward a greater love … You are going toward Maria's [Huxley's first wife, who had died many years earlier] love with my love. You are going toward a greater love than you have ever known. You are going toward the best, the greatest love, and it is easy, it is so easy, and you are doing it so beautifully.'

All struggle ceased. The breathing became slower and slower and slower until, 'like a piece of music just finishing so gently in sempre piu piano, dolcamente,' at twenty past five in the afternoon, Aldous Huxley died."


Rather be a learner than a teacher - I'll meet you half way.
- cosmic crusader

a reply to: fatkid

Eh life is the leading cause of death...

Being scared of losing it living the way one wants to live it is to live in fear and paranoia and then becomes no kind of life at all.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

But all men die and all men do things that bring them closer to death.

The thing about enlightenment is you don't know where the path ends and begins all you know is the part of the path you are currently experiencing.

Some would argue to know enlightenment is to know that all you do to help another you do to help yourself and all you do to harm another you do to harm yourself. This is oneness, you will be that person at some point in this experience.

Others claim to know enlightenment is to know God.

Some claim to know enlightenment is to know the origins of man and the universe.

And plenty believe that enlightenment is to know that you live and then you die.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: fatkid

Eh life is the leading cause of death...

Being scared of losing it living the way one wants to live it is to live in fear and paranoia and then becomes no kind of life at all.

That's pretty F'ing profound brother darkness.

a reply to: fatkid

No you can never be them as far as form goes... when the ego self is shredded then there is no attachment to form and the energy just slides right on through as open source.

Of course not all energies are beneficial to support life when bound within form so it is best to keep that sort of energy out as it only brings more suffering so when working to remove suffering and the ignorance that gives rise to it, this also means attempting to have a healthy dialogue so that there is understanding.

Of course when an ego self is held and refuses to have a healthy dialog and only interjects one perspective from that ego taken as a self, then no discussion actually takes place just an argument of held belief or opinion instead of focusing on the topic in objectivity in and of itself as a subject of discussion.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Sorry to be so retarded.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
The correct answer is simply to speak truth. Those that are humble enough to care about the truth will hear it. Those who want their own made up reality will not.

Since you don't know everyone's heart, that means talk to everyone and particularly those that seem to be seeking.

This all assuming you know the truth.

This is correct. Now the question will come, as stated Pilate to Jesus before condemning him to death:

(John 18:37, 38) . . .For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him: “What is truth?”. . .


Pilate said it in a derogatory way as if it could not be known.

Now, if you notice, even while Jesus was being tormented unjustly, being tortured and lead to an unjust death he knew he was about to go through he took the time to preach, give a witness, evangelize to Pilate. Seeing Pilate's heart condition and his response he didn't pursue it at that time.


Now how to answer Pilate's question? Well quite simply:

(John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus is the truth. Everything revealed in him is truth. All Scripture inspired of God and all prophecy are fulfilled in him.

The truth is not in you. It is in Jesus. And only by exercising faith in him will we find truth and life.

And Jesus himself sent his apostles to preach to everyone. Only he said, that if a person or city would reject their message, then let the peace they brought remain with them. But if they were accepted in a house or a city then let the peace they brought dwell upon them.

(Matthew 10:11-14) 11 “Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.


The shaking of the dust off your feet against people who reject Jehovah's witnesses is a sign of freedom of blood-guilt upon them. Yes, Jehovah's witnesses are the ones preaching and teaching the good news of truth.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Some would argue that there is no linear movement of time only cycles of life. Between harvests anything can happen so while we would see it as happening now and then, in the records these just are slices of the one souls experience, maybe you need to learn something in a future life to develop in the past.

Ego doesn't argue with self, it just can't "access" higher vibrations, so it can't understand/relate to them and instead seeks more obtainable forms of energy, which usually are counter productive to spiritual growth.

Just like higher self doesn't argue with the ego, it just seeks higher vibrations.

But some would agree that you can learn more from physical experiences and living than you can from focusing on higher vibrations and spirituality, some would even argue that paying attention to the idea of a spirit is nothing but a waste of time...

People tend to have differences in beliefs, it's what makes religion such a powerful weapon.

Point of thread is teaching though - and I'm just trying clarify that before you start to pull people on your path you need to ground out and ensure that you aren't leading them astray, because while you (everyone) might believe you are enlightened, you might just be a moth to a flame.

So it's best to be both a learner and a teacher, be open to helping others and to letting others help you, you aren't doing anything but helping yourself in either case.

a reply to: fatkid

Very true in regards to extremes...

existing purely as energy is an extreme and being scared to release or set that energy into free flow via an ego self is also an extreme...

Of course only seeking comfort for the body once one has one then the energy or spiritual side starves within, and the extreme of only feeding the spiritual or energy side leads to mortification of the body as an extreme.

This is why the Buddha declared the middle way as being superior as it seeks balance in all things no matter the form it is found in with the greatest respect to all sentient life as being equal despite the form as it is the very same energy but only seen as separate via that ego self... the ego self can of course become attached to a spirit or energy form no different than it can become attached to a corporeal form.

Edit to add and for spelling? I have no desire for followers I'd rather point to the Buddhist path and say follow it as it is the one I found most beneficial to my journey.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: sputniksteve

Sorry to be so retarded.

Not at all dude, I wasn't being facetious. I read it and automatically closed the thread then finished processing it and had to come back and reread it.

The realization that all that matters right now in this reality is recognizing that you won't get another chance to relive this moment. You can't save up good times and bank an fulfilling future. Failing to do what you are compelled to do for your being is failing to grasp the point of the reality, and the answer to the oldest question for mankind: what is the meaning of life?

F'ing profound dawg.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Very true... past experience gone like a puff of smoke often times becomes a limitation on enjoying any future experience arising that could actually be beneficial. Labels do this all the time given and accepted well many are gifts no one has to accept...

In such a way we can define our own meaning and purpose offering freedom from things that either hold our-self or society back...

Of course it does not have to take on the world in doing so and shouldn't as introspection first should try to see what is inside causing oneself problems instead of pointing out there somewhere is the problem... it gives rise to ones own feelings so why not see why it gives rise to those feelings and instead of reacting to them outside back where they came from causing a vicious cycle? We can choose to take no action and see that it was attachment to that past experience that gave rise to those feelings. Not holding onto those past feelings? As you said no prevention for the possibility for new to arise.

I discovered this from my dislike of eating raw tomatoes over the course of many years... I flat out refused for over three decades then said ok things change I'll try it once a year... did that then my mother gives me a cherry tomato and bleh horrid so I quit the raw tomato once a year experiment. Then not just a couple of years ago I tried them again... hey it changed it enhanced the flavor of course the ripeness I have discovered plays a huge role in their enjoyment... and guess what this year? I ate a cherry tomato and had no issue with it at all.

Of course so many years avoiding the raw tomato I have discovered I was building an allergy to them... getting dry scaly patches on the sides of my face near my nose. So the avoidance out of not liking and holding onto that actually became a side effect in health as an actual physical intolerance to match the mental intolerance...

Not a good thing to pass onto any future offspring but being nearly 44 years old I do not have any plans for having another child but then again things change...

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Your comment on tomato's is pretty cool. I never noticed it but I believe you are absolutely correct. I had a similar thing with sea food when I was a child. Eventually when I wanted to try and eat it I would have mild reactions like a shortness of breath. Eventually I realized I love some crab and lobster and the reaction went away.

Fascinating.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Mind over matter... if it ceases to matter than why mind? Well when whatever is occurring keeps harming others of course and it absolutely does not have too.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Originally posted by sputniksteve
My suggestion, if you think it's your job, or that it's even possible then you yourself might still be a type A person.

I think it’s a duty to help guide others, if one is already in the truth…It’s easy to do with those of group type (B) and definitely possible to achieve with those in group type (A)…I could write more but this get’s back into the heart of the question in my OP…

From the perception of people who fit into group (A) even the so called “enlightened ones”, will appear to fit into group (A) as well, but this is not the case…

Originally posted by sputniksteve
I mean that with respect, and is no comment on your truths. I have a feeling they might be similar to my truths if not the same. Either way what you and I have can't be given freely in the form that we posses. I doubt you received it that way, even though many probably tried to give it to you.

Well, many paths can lead to the same universal truth, although depending on the path taken different “knowledge sets”, will have been obtained en-route…my path came through the studying and contemplating the scriptures, OT, and NT, and Gnostic Texts etc…

I also had spiritual experiences along the journey…I was also a group (B) person during this journey/process, and when I began to truly search a teacher did arrive, who helped me see certain truths. Of course I still had to do the leg work (seeking) myself, because the best a guide can do, is to open the door, but only the seeker can walk through it…

Getting back to what you wrote above, in some way what we have can’t be given i.e. the understanding can’t just be ported across to another individual, but one can gently help another find the truth for themselves, by sowing seeds, and using wisdom and reasoning. But you’re right to some extent, in that we can’t just give it to them, but we can help them find the truth for themselves.

Originally posted by sputniksteve
Wethey will all get it eventually, I think it's rare to truly understand before this iteration is over. As soon as I think I have it figured out, it's time to rethink it all and see what sticks. I hesitate to even say my truths are true even now,because they have altered from 6 months ago.

I think a lot depends on an individuals path to the truth. For example sometimes people spontaneously awaken to themselves, but have no knowledge of the past spiritual masters, or ancient texts, and how that universal truth is encoded into other types of scriptures and how it works etc…

Originally posted by sputniksteve
Joecroft you have made me reconsider my position on the subject, or at the very least my reply to your post.

Great…

Originally posted by sputniksteve
So is it the duty of those at the front of the back to help those in the back? My original reply was that it's not possible, and if you think it is then you are probably in the middle. But maybe I am in the middle, because I didn't recognize the power of just propagating ideas in a non intrusive and non domineering way.

You’ve hit the nail on the head here because non intrusive and non domineering is the way to approach it…

I think a few replies to my OP thought I was talking about proselytizing but that’s not what I’m suggesting at all. I’m talking about actually connecting with peoples minds and hearts, and using an approach that is so subtle, that people wont even recognize any teaching/guiding is actually taking place, but over time they will.

Having said all that though, this can be difficult with group (A) types who are heavily entrenched into their own beliefs…sometimes group (A) can show signs or aspects of a group (B) person but this is normally few and far between…

Originally posted by sputniksteve
Just because I was too stubborn to listen to those before me doesn't mean others aren't capable. While I still believe that there is still something required that can't be given or shown, who am I to make assumptions about something I don't truly understand anyway?

Yes, we often judge things based on own collective experiences, which is only natural I suppose.

Just based on your post above, you know it can be experienced, which is some understanding in and of itself. But like I was saying further up, a lot depends on your own journey into the truth, but there will always be some aspects of your own journey that you can articulate to someone else. You don’t need to understand everything in order to try and get that across.

I’m kind of in a different mind-set, in that I believe it can be shown, but that it can’t be given…In other words truth can be spoken/shown, but the understanding of it can’t be given…only the individual listening and receiving can come to the realisation of the truth, through their own inner self…

Originally posted by sputniksteve
If everyone would have been like me and kept it mostly to myself I may never have gotten it in the first place.

Yes, exactly, I was once a group (B) type, so if the teacher didn’t arrive, I wouldn’t have been able to start this thread topic…


- JC

a reply to: GailNot

Originally posted by Tarzanbeta
The correct answer is simply to speak truth. Those that are humble enough to care about the truth will hear it. Those who want their own made up reality will not.

Since you don't know everyone's heart, that means talk to everyone and particularly those that seem to be seeking.

This all assuming you know the truth.

Originally posted by GailNot
This is correct. Now the question will come, as stated Pilate to Jesus before condemning him to death:

(John 18:37, 38) . . .For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him: “What is truth?”. . .


Pilate said it in a derogatory way as if it could not be known.

Now, if you notice, even while Jesus was being tormented unjustly, being tortured and lead to an unjust death he knew he was about to go through he took the time to preach, give a witness, evangelize to Pilate. Seeing Pilate's heart condition and his response he didn't pursue it at that time.


Now how to answer Pilate's question? Well quite simply:

(John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus is the truth. Everything revealed in him is truth. All Scripture inspired of God and all prophecy are fulfilled in him.

The truth is not in you. It is in Jesus. And only by exercising faith in him will we find truth and life.

And Jesus himself sent his apostles to preach to everyone. Only he said, that if a person or city would reject their message, then let the peace they brought remain with them. But if they were accepted in a house or a city then let the peace they brought dwell upon them.

(Matthew 10:11-14) 11 “Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.


The shaking of the dust off your feet against people who reject Jehovah's witnesses is a sign of freedom of blood-guilt upon them. Yes, Jehovah's witnesses are the ones preaching and teaching the good news of truth.

Who is your post aimed at, myself or TarzanBeta…?


- JC

a reply to: anotheramethyst

Very well said here's to hoping for comprehension

a reply to: Joecroft

This is a question to those who have spiritually awoken.

Should we enlightened ones

Anyone who uses the word enlightened to describe himself is not enlightened.

Go back to start.