‘Unprecedented’: Scientists declare global climate emergency; jet stream crosses equator

a reply to: bknapple32

Perhaps I should rephrase it to "Scientists in the field of Climatology are clueless", as they cannot form a general consensus.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Scientists are clueless

We have these calling "death of winter" and in another thread there's scientists saying we're going to get a mini Ice age and winter is coming

And this article is not biased at all with claiming "human-forced climate change" in 2 successive sentences..

I agree, this smells like propaganda to me. Don't get me wrong the amount of pollution humans have dumped into, on and around this planet is bad, and DEFINITELY does have negative and possibly catastrophic repercussions BUT, the climate is always changing and alot of what we are experiencing now is just that, natural change. So yeah we haven't done Earth ANY favors but if we weren't here and never even where, Earth would still change, it always has.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Scientists are clueless

Sigh...

a reply to: bknapple32

I have answers - just observations


geography.about.com...

In addition, various climatic factors can cause the jet stream to shift and dramatically change an area's weather patterns. For instance, during the last glaciation in North America, the polar jet stream was deflected south because the Laurentide Ice Sheet, which was 10,000 feet (3,048 meters) thick created its own weather and deflected it south. As a result, the normally dry Great Basin area of the United States experienced a significant increase in precipitation and large pluvial lakes formed over the area. The world’s jet streams are also impacted by El Nino and La Nina. During El Nino for example, precipitation usually increases in California because the polar jet stream moves farther south and brings more storms with it. Conversely, during La Nina events, California dries out and precipitation moves into the Pacific Northwest because the polar jet stream moves more north. In addition, precipitation often increases in Europe because the jet stream is stronger in the Northern Atlantic and is capable of pushing them farther east. Today, movement of the jet stream north has been detected indicating possible changes in climate. Whatever the position of the jet stream though, it has a significant impact on the world's weather patterns and severe weather events like floods and droughts. It is therefore essential that meteorologists and other scientists understand as much as possible about the jet stream and continue to track its movement, to in turn monitor such weather around the world.

Also from the same link

Jet streams were first identified in the 1920s so instead of the terrifying headline of the OP (ususally identified as spin), the headline should have read "Northern Jet Stream meanders below the equator. This event has not been observed for approximately 100 years. Perhaps this is normal. Perhaps it isn't. A 100 years is not a very long time in terms of climate observations and we just don't know what it means".

Then the article should explain that the Northern Jet Stream normally moves south as a result of impacts from El Nino. The movement south of the Northern Jet Stream may have been caused by colder air in the artic and could signal the end of the warming trend that has been observed for the last 30 years.

In any event, the movement south of the Northern Jet Stream indicates a change in climate (which is totally normal) and may signal the end of the 30 year warming trend which has recently been observed.

Further this may all be connected to the lack of sun activity that has also been observed.


See how anything can be spun to indicate catastrophy. Even perfectly normal stuff.

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: bknapple32

Perhaps I should rephrase it to "Scientists in the field of Climatology are clueless", as they cannot form a general consensus.

They cannot form a general consensus about what?

Here is a great comment from the man's site:

The deniers have taught me one valuable lesson. Just because I am ignorant of something, doesn’t mean thousands of people aren’t working on the problem.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: bknapple32

Perhaps I should rephrase it to "Scientists in the field of Climatology are clueless", as they cannot form a general consensus.

Again- did you receive the vast amounts of education that they received? Are you qualified?

Wouldn't it be great if these Climate Scientists had to pair up and fight to the death in the Arena?

Didn't Jupiter's spot disappear for a while? Wasn't that unprecedented too? Isn't it back now?

Wouldn't it be 'cool' if these Climate Scientists were all strapped to a spaceship and sent to Jupiter to study the atmosphere?

Yeah FEAR mongering.

Rich people are out to git us. Rich control.

Bankers are out to git us. Banker Control.

Guns are out to git us. Gun control.

The Climate is out to git us. Climate control.

Anyone else see the pattern ?

Stop letting snake oil salesman sell you miracle 'cures'.

a reply to: Konduit

It's not really how climate scientists are doing that. They use historical data as a reference for modelling but they are inputting the total effects of human expansion. Like what happens when you remove the rainforest for co2 scrubbing, they even input species of animals. When ecosystems fold an entire rearranging naturally gets done if say a space rock does the deforesting. Since the animals and plants evolve simultaneous with climate they both effect each other.

If we were to go away the earth would likely be fine and return to a Ballance. If we continue to progress and deforest the rain forests and alter chemistry in the ocean as well, the climate will most certainly be effected. They input all that kind of data into computer models and press fast forward. They also study how natural disasters alter climate in the past using our current understanding from geology and fossils.

I know everyone is calling BS on this but the convection of the Hadley cells at the equator are what keeps the jet streams circulating in their predicted hemispheres.. If it has indeed dipped below the equator.. that's pretty bizarre. The Hadleys are a closed loop.. for something to break that cycle sounds pretty extreme. Of course it's probably happened at some point in the planets life, but for us living here now I think it's something to pay attention to.


Eta; I see stormcell already mentioned this

a reply to: reldra

They can't even decide if the Earth is warming, if it's cooling or if it's just changing. Says it all about their joke of a field of science, you only need to watch their daily weather predictions (glorified guessing) to see they don't fully understand the climate

a reply to: Starcrossd

I'm not necessarily calling BS on it, but I am saying that there is too much about it we don't know.

1,) We can't say with any certainty that this has never happened before and/or does not happen periodically. We've only been keeping tabs on the jet streams since the 1940s. That's less than 100 years. In terms of the planet's history, that's not very long especially where some climate cycles are concerned. It's nothing on the scale of geologic time.

2.) And if it happened, we don't know why. Today, it's too easy for the first assumption every climate scientist makes to default to "human activity," but as we don't know for sure anything about the history of the phenomena (see point 1), we don't know if that is in fact the case or if it would have anything to do with the cause.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: reldra

They can't even decide if the Earth is warming, if it's cooling or if it's just changing. Says it all about their joke of a field of science, you only need to watch their daily weather predictions (glorified guessing) to see they don't fully understand the climate

I see whats going on here. You went outside without an umbrella once and it rained on you. Got it.

a reply to: Discotech

Again that isn't exactly true

There are many different models.


They may not be able to predict with accuracy something we don't fully understand but they can definately see changes happening as human being severely alter important parts of the system. Like your car doesn't work well without the back pressure of your muffler unless you change the compression design .

The tree's go, the bugs go, the microbes go, the birds go, the animals etc and you end up with collapses like Madagascar and Brazil. The difference with a comet smashing down and humans is that the effects of the comet fad through time. If we don't allow the rebirthing process we can expect some changes. Especially regarding plant and animal life which plays a role on the climate. Especially rain Forrest's.

Of course if thus were talked about sincerely we would have to debate the very structure we are living our society with.

a reply to: ketsuko





but, why not talk about what it would mean if true, instead of who's right or wrong about whether it's manmade or not or whether unprecedented or not? widespread drought and famine sounds horrifying to me.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Scientists are clueless

LOL Every single scientist ever is clueless? Interesting. Wonder where medical progress, computers, modern surgery, moon landings, space program, smart phones, GPS...Chemistry, Biology...Where did all that come from. God I suppose. Our scientists were/are much too stupid to contribue to humanity in any meaningful way, eh? LOL

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

We all will either die in a climate induced hell that will destroy all life on the planet forever, or we'll get some weather.

Either, or.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: ketsuko

but, why not talk about what it would mean if true, instead of who's right or wrong about whether it's manmade or not or whether unprecedented or not? widespread drought and famine sounds horrifying to me.

It's supposed to sound horrifying to you.

Did you notice the "if" embedded in there. That means whatever they saw or think they saw, it was not a lasting state. So they came up with pretty much the scariest scenario imaginable to scare the socks off you and make you beg to be taxed within an inch of your life and give up more control to the benevolent dictators of the UN in order to be saved.

a reply to: knoxie

In my unscientific analysis I am pretty sure the system may have a reset button. We may see it eventually. The earth will be fine unless we do something real dumb with nukes.

We may not be fine and life may exist in small little pockets and go through another eon with new evolutionary species coming forth.

Maybe we were designed to be the virus. As smart as we are individually we seem to lack that intelligence as a collective