Remain Voters, quite granny (and grandad) bashing

The eu was never a friend of the British anyway, what with grants to cadburys to move to the continent, and Ford vans, and the new Britsh army AFV being made in spain with swedish steel, another car manufacturer moved to the continent too, cannot be bothered to sort through my archives for that one.
dyson had a loan from the eu to move its factory to Malasia, China dumped steel on the European market, the eu refused to impose import charges, so British TATA steel went to the wall.

Good job the brits are leaving before the whole island is sold to the saudis, as it is, some of the water, and electricity infrastructure is owned by german and french companies, the airports are owned by spain, a lot of the nuclear industry is owned by America, all that profit going abroad, instead of staying in the UK and funding public works...

a reply to: Morrad

Suddenly , there is a nation of expert economic forecasters too , not just some young ageists , welcome to the world !

The European Single Market is todays topic , something neither side revealed too early - you swap being able to trade inside the zone for free movement of those inside it apparently . Remainers wanted to vote _for that kind of aggressive economic protectionism ? Against the smaller weaker traders , Africa, et al ? They would vote , _for a corporate set up that started out as the ECSC ? Again , welcome to the world , we suppose , but it still incredulates , just learn to turn it to smiles !

Oh dear , the 'single market' tradeoff we didnt realise that trade off - or did we ? It's a heavy trade off -

one which could trash an individual nation's 'shop floor' too. Because this _place is a nation's home . You wouldn't keep trading with customers that are trashing your house and eyeing the silver though , would anyone do that ? You wouldnt have people sleeping in your beds and then calling you lazy slaves to their minorityhood either . Or would you ? If it were possible ,imminently or not , would you let that continue ? If you didn't have to ...

Remainers are like traitors to England , bitter complainers without reason: are they even British. We were never going to let some German speaking bigots with some European Army come an tell us what to do on this here Island . Not since way on back . The deal Europe were putting amounted to 'trade off your national sovereignty AS WELL as your democracy, your currencyand the rest , if you want the right to @continue@ to trade with us normally'. And then it WOULD have been , 'co-operate with your armed forces TOO , IF you wish to contineu at the negotiating table . @These countries agree so it's 'democracy' . Democratique , ah ha .'
On Friday , the wind was taken from the sails of a ship which is now not going to sail - an entire exit strategy complete .
There are true national heros in the commons and round about us today , no wonder the cheering . And with God's help again , a third or fourth time the armada was repelled from the nations coast by the thrashing of violent storms.
Land of hope , and glory .

a reply to: Morrad

Thanks for posting this article, it is a very interesting read. The thing is, i have some sympathy with this type of view from the "young" in that we (older generations and our predecesors) have polluted the planet to buggery, used huge amounts of resources, cocked the climate up and now, as the young see it, denied them the future they wanted. The end result? A completely divided nation.

Having said all that, we need to move forwards now........although, tbh, i am not really sure how we can. I have never known the nation to be so divided, even during the Miners Strikes and the Poll Tax riots. From a personal standpoint, i know the only way out of this is to move forward and work together to build a better future but i am still so angry and disappointed i almost want the nation to fail - and i am a rational person with 2 young children to think of. In other words, i am still so angry i am currently devoid of rationality regarding this particular topic. And there are literally millions more like me.

On a sperate note, i fully supported a second referendum (a position i had before the vote) if the margin was under 60% - but i am not even sure about this anymore. It will just entrench the already startling divisions within this nation.

Sad but don't really know how we move on.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Morrad

Thanks for posting this article, it is a very interesting read. The thing is, i have some sympathy with this type of view from the "young" in that we (older generations and our predecesors) have polluted the planet to buggery, used huge amounts of resources, cocked the climate up and now, as the young see it, denied them the future they wanted. The end result? A completely divided nation.

Having said all that, we need to move forwards now........although, tbh, i am not really sure how we can. I have never known the nation to be so divided, even during the Miners Strikes and the Poll Tax riots. From a personal standpoint, i know the only way out of this is to move forward and work together to build a better future but i am still so angry and disappointed i almost want the nation to fail - and i am a rational person with 2 young children to think of. In other words, i am still so angry i am currently devoid of rationality regarding this particular topic. And there are literally millions more like me.

On a sperate note, i fully supported a second referendum (a position i had before the vote) if the margin was under 60% - but i am not even sure about this anymore. It will just entrench the already startling divisions within this nation.

Sad but don't really know how we move on.

The reason people are divided is that they don't know the facts . Nobody disagrees about facts .
You want to be blaming Europe here - not the people of the UK . If the deal was good , we'd have kept it .
You're wrong about divisions - english people are happy with the result . Juncker isnt : but then his tanks were gone and the councillor Lord Steel has had to flee , the rest 'dissolved' , zer vill be "no negotiations ". All because a lasting peace has broken out really . A peace where Europe is moderated by the (thoroughly sensible) British . Moral behaviour will improve across the continent . Plus Those who would play politics with immigration , wind gone from their sails . We dont take part in concreting refugees in or out , its not cricket , and OUR policy is second to none as is the record - . We might visit fences with Tusk but it doesnt mean we like them , or _his policy . Why should we have to? It is a day to be proud to be English , when we negotiate , people listen .
We are not nothing without Europe but this whole European nonsense is nothing without us . Like George , laying down the Leviathan , a shaking of the trees has happened and fruit has hit the floor . Think big - it helps .
@postulation with half-truths.. is fun for everyone
Its hard ,...to leave Europe.. but all we have to do is sit tight - they know it , we know it . The game is , really , over .
Are NATO floating round the North ATlantic still ,...#~oh yeah ! Chill chill , we English are good at this , no?

originally posted by: pikestaff
A 60 year old has more experience of life than an 18 year old, probably read some history too, and can think outside the box, and can weed out the crap in the MSN we all see just what we want to see, however, sometime lightning strikes twice, and the real world pokes its head round the door.

Alternatively, a 60 year old has three times as many years of being brainwashed by the government. Being Hillary Clinton's big group of supporters doesn't exactly give me much confidence in the wisdom of the elderly, but perhaps things are different in England.

I think the biggest issue is that many young people feel like the old ones have climbed up the ladder and burned it.

Thats the idea,the little SH#TS are pushing to get us DEAD at 75(Shades of Logan's Run THERE)
With all the stupid stories the young are buying, from what can be CLEARLY seen as lack of knowledgein history and education, all I can do is fight them as best as I believe as well.
WHO'S right?
Depends on your endgame.
If you LIKE the idea of transhumanism and global social dominance then RELAX and ignore us.
If you want America a a strong sovereign country ..then BY NOW you own a NASTY black "ASSAULT" rifle and you are getting MORE than tired
of the little F##KERS trying to ask you WHY you should have it.



AGE and treachery my Droogies...

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
I think the biggest issue is that many young people feel like the old ones have climbed up the ladder and burned it.

i wonder if the OAPs will do that before the Pro-EU's let in terrorists who then blow the ladder to smithereens.

Either way, the ladder was going to be destroyed sooner or later.

Secondly, if the Pro-EU's want Europe so much, then emigrate there. No one is going to stop them.

a reply to: Rapha

I wasn't talking about EU in particular there, indeed, the old ones will share the young one's fate (to a certain extent), regardless of the effects that leaving the EU brings. Instead I was talking about other things. For instance, people in government taking advantage of certain systems and then dismantling them once they've received their help.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Alternatively, a 60 year old has three times as many years of being brainwashed by the government.

I would think that by the time one gets to 60 they have had all the rough

edges rubbed of them and are passed being taken in or brainwashed, by

anyone. They have lived through countless governments, and observed the

spin, and many ways of being lied to!

They have weathered the hard knocks of life and are no longer idealists but

realists.

As they have probably had children and grand children they will, as a parent

always does, do what they believe is best for their children.

No doubt the children will disagree with them .... but hey!! that's life,

children always think they know best!

Being Hillary Clinton's big group of supporters doesn't exactly give me much confidence in the wisdom of the elderly, but perhaps things are different in England.

Yes i would say things are different in England.

Do Trump supporters give you more confidence?

I think the biggest issue is that many young people feel like the old ones have climbed up the ladder and burned it.

You should give them more credit .... they have and always had your back

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
For instance, people in government taking advantage of certain systems and then dismantling them once they've received their help.

'Help' or 'Quota' ?. Lol
Well, the Rothschild's made a killing with the Brexit whilst the Rockefeller's were dependent on Britain staying in the EU. This explains why the Rothschild's removed all UK physical gold and went to Switzerland 2 weeks ago.

At least they will all get judged by peasants for Crimes Against Humanity on Judgement Day.

a reply to: eletheia

I would think that by the time one gets to 60 they have had all the rough

edges rubbed of them and are passed being taken in or brainwashed, by

anyone. They have lived through countless governments, and observed the

spin, and many ways of being lied to!

They have weathered the hard knocks of life and are no longer idealists but

realists.

As they have probably had children and grand children they will, as a parent

always does, do what they believe is best for their children.

No doubt the children will disagree with them .... but hey!! that's life,

children always think they know best!

To a certain extent. But certain bits of brainwashing seem to have stuck... The Red Scare, for instance.

What people don't seem to understand, sadly, is that you need idealists for society to improve at its optimum rate.

I'm not disparaging that, either. Everyone wants what's best for the people they care about, or their country, or whatever. Even the most venomous of left-wing and right-wing extremists are generally working towards the same goal, they just have different methods of achieving it.

Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, the children really do know what's best. ^_^

Yes i would say things are different in England.

Do Trump supporters give you more confidence?

No. I think they're both awful.

You should give them more credit .... they have and always had your back

Oh yeah, I know a bunch of really awesome old people, in general they're great. The issue is that the ones in the spotlight (your Koch Brothers, your Bill Clintons, your George Bushes, your Corrupt Government Bigwigs, your Oligarchs and Plutocrats) have f*cked the younger generations with their awfulness.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn

Oh yeah, I know a bunch of really awesome old people, in general they're great. The issue is that the ones in the spotlight (your Koch Brothers, your Bill Clintons, your George Bushes, your Corrupt Government Bigwigs, your Oligarchs and Plutocrats) have f*cked the younger generations with their awfulness.

Where as ^^^^^ may be true .... This thread concerns the referendum

of the UK staying in the EU!! and I would say that governments and the EU

have f*cked ALL the generations

I am starting to find all these "petitions" to nullify the Brexit vote not only quite tiresome, but downright sickening, elitist and completely anti-democratic.
I just read yet another one, on change.org this time, that someone linked to on FB. It offers up all sorts of figures relating to the amount that voted in total, and thus the amount as a percentage of the population that wanted out only being 37%. It's irrelevant!

Do we get to nullify the results of a General Election using the same argument and "my side" lost? Of course not!
On the day, the majority that voted won the referendum, THAT is what counts, THAT is democracy!

As for all the nonsense about not letting young people vote, the 16-17 years olds, well they don't get to vote in other elections either. Their time will come.
Purple haired, pierced and tattooed self styled social justice warrior student types need a bit more exposure to reality and life in general, over and above the causes of the moment they follow on social media, before being given a chance to impose their views on others. Strangely, it is those very ones that scream about freedom of speech and expression that are suddenly whining about us "oldies" ruining their lives!

I have 3 teenage nieces who have all been posting furiously on social media along these lines. My simple question to them was, what do you not have today, post Brexit, that you had yesterday? I am still waiting for a coherent answer on that one!

I have other relatives, all having been through university, posting links to other nonsense, along the lines of those voting for Brexit being poorly educated and those areas where the Brexit vote was strongest having the lowest number of people with degrees! How very freakin' elitist of them! It's truly unbelievable!

According to the media, it's all about Immigration and a Cameron V Johnson spat for the party leadership. Again, those issues are irrelevant and play only a very small part in the overall list of crap a lot of people across Europe are tired of having to deal with or have thrust upon them.

As for the impact on the markets and big banks, those are rigged casinos, as has been shown many times over and the banks are way over-leveraged and have been close to failure for a long time before the Brexit issue ever came up. Problem there though is the disinfo fed to the masses by the government and the corporate media, or the censorship of damning news that doesn't fit with the government statements about the rising economy and everything being just fine. No, just blame it all on Brexit.

The majority who voted won the day with the out vote, plain and simple. Time to move on and start the process to finish it. Those MP's in the main parties jumping ship in protest should immediately have their seats lost and elections held to fill them. Time to carry out the will of the people!

Rant over!

originally posted by: Rapha

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
I think the biggest issue is that many young people feel like the old ones have climbed up the ladder and burned it.

i wonder if the OAPs will do that before the Pro-EU's let in terrorists who then blow the ladder to smithereens.

Either way, the ladder was going to be destroyed sooner or later.

Secondly, if the Pro-EU's want Europe so much, then emigrate there. No one is going to stop them.

I would imagine the terrorists could already be here considering that the UK govt has no idea who has come into the country and where they are let alone how many there are despite the promise at the last election to get immigration under control and reduce it.

Probably the fact that the OAPs have already had years and years of governments making promises and then breaking them once they are voted in has alot to do with it too. I guess when most of what you hear coming out of someones mouth is lies you just start to assume that's all there is.

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Morrad

Thanks for posting this article, it is a very interesting read. The thing is, i have some sympathy with this type of view from the "young" in that we (older generations and our predecesors) have polluted the planet to buggery, used huge amounts of resources, cocked the climate up and now, as the young see it, denied them the future they wanted. The end result? A completely divided nation.

Having said all that, we need to move forwards now........although, tbh, i am not really sure how we can. I have never known the nation to be so divided, even during the Miners Strikes and the Poll Tax riots. From a personal standpoint, i know the only way out of this is to move forward and work together to build a better future but i am still so angry and disappointed i almost want the nation to fail - and i am a rational person with 2 young children to think of. In other words, i am still so angry i am currently devoid of rationality regarding this particular topic. And there are literally millions more like me.

On a sperate note, i fully supported a second referendum (a position i had before the vote) if the margin was under 60% - but i am not even sure about this anymore. It will just entrench the already startling divisions within this nation.

Sad but don't really know how we move on.

The reason people are divided is that they don't know the facts .

If there had been more of these "facts" during the debates then more people would have made an informed vote. As it is mere days later we now have Brexit promises already being shown as fake and issues being revealed that were not included in debates such as the lack of boarder staff the UK currently has in France due to them being reduced by the government.

Facts from both sides, and also some comment from Remain about where they were going to take it had they been the victor. After the poor attempts at negotiation from Cameron, there wasn't much to offer other than the status quo and with other countries waiting on the sidelines for their "brexit" the UK (and Europe) needed to know.

Should a new deal be found to enact a second referendum I would expect full facts this time along with some sort of plan for the future. Anything less than that and I will be spoiling my vote. On that note, I do think everyone should vote and to fulfil democracy properly a "counted" spoiled vote can be used as protest or undecided vote and included in published figures.

I think we should be having a general election sooner than October. Such a disastrous referendum and its outcome shows an electorate who think the current government is not fit for purpose. Some will have voted with this view in mind because they feel they have no other way to express their dissatisfaction.

originally posted by: YarlanZey
I guess when most of what you hear coming out of someones mouth is lies you just start to assume that's all there is.

Lol. Exactly. A perfect example is Bush Snr with his infamous statement 'Read my lips: no new taxes'.

Many working class people now have nothing. So basically, things can only get better for many Brits. We survived alone during WW2, we can do it again.

As the human brain ages it actually physically changes. Regions of the brain that regulate fear begin to become more prominent.

We all know that a teenager's brain isn't fully developed, and this is part of the reason they engage in high-risk activity. The teen brain doesn't have the physical capability to assess threats and consequences the same way as someone in their 30's or 40's does.

The same thing happens in reverse for the elderly.

I'm not surprised that older people are more fearful of change or foreigners, and younger people more adaptable and accepting of change.

Generally, older people tend to become conservative as they age as well..as they begin to age and the amgdala grows in size relative to the other regions of the brain.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
As the human brain ages it actually physically changes. Regions of the brain that regulate fear begin to become more prominent.

We all know that a teenager's brain isn't fully developed, and this is part of the reason they engage in high-risk activity. The teen brain doesn't have the physical capability to assess threats and consequences the same way as someone in their 30's or 40's does.

The same thing happens in reverse for the elderly.

I'm not surprised that older people are more fearful of change or foreigners, and younger people more adaptable and accepting of change.

Generally, older people tend to become conservative as they age as well..as they begin to age and the amgdala grows in size relative to the other regions of the brain.

But doesn't that mean the young should have voted out as this is the high risk choice coupled with uncertainty and the old would vote to stay in as to vote out would mean change to which they are adverse.

originally posted by: YarlanZey
But doesn't that mean the young should have voted out as this is the high risk choice coupled with uncertainty and the old would vote to stay in as to vote out would mean change to which they are adverse.

This has got me puzzled too.
On top of that, "Leave" was the rebellious choice, and "Remain" was the choice preferred by the political establishment.
When did the young stop being rebellious and abandon that task to their elders?
This is almost like the generation reversal of Absolutely Fabulous.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: YarlanZey
But doesn't that mean the young should have voted out as this is the high risk choice coupled with uncertainty and the old would vote to stay in as to vote out would mean change to which they are adverse.

This has got me puzzled too.
On top of that, "Leave" was the rebellious choice, and "Remain" was the choice preferred by the political establishment.
When did the young stop being rebellious and abandon that task to their elders?
This is almost like the generation reversal of Absolutely Fabulous.

Perhaps due to education reform and further dumbing down so they no longer want to question anything people tell them.

They are the new sheeple.

Sheeple 2.0
(hope that's correct, but I'm sure IT people will correct me)