BREAKING: Van Driver In Freddie Gray Case Found Not Guilty On All Counts

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


Thanks, I was on the phone...you beat me to it

mg

originally posted by: missed_gear

originally posted by: Greven

Is running from the police a crime?

Yes...'reasonable suspicion" (especially in a high crime area)

Supreme court ruling, irionically Chicago case, Jan 2000.


mg

You are reading things incorrectly. It is not a crime to run unprovoked from the police. That ruling allows police to chase down and detain people.

a reply to: Greven



Really?

Please point out what I am reading incorectly?

Do you understand "reasonable suspicion"?

FLIGHT CAN JUSTIFY SEARCH BY POLICE, HIGH COURT RULES

Plenty more case law for 16 years...

Perhaps you are not reading

mg

a reply to: missed_gear

Do you understand the word 'crime' here?

Or maybe try reading the title again: "FLIGHT CAN JUSTIFY SEARCH"

Notice how it doesn't mention crime. What this court case says is that you can be detained and searched to see if you committed a crime.

It is not saying the fleeing person committed a crime (e: when that act is combined with other factors, lest we forget that bit).

Fleeing unprovoked from the police is not a crime.

a reply to: Greven

again your the one who is incorrect.

Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away.

But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.

But several legal experts say that because he was standing in a drug-infested area, Gray's decision to bolt on April 12 may have justified the decision by four bicycle-riding officers to pursue and detain him.

both come the above formCan you run from police? US courts apply a double standard and you can do a search

as stated before the DA and police were increasing patrols for drug related crime in that neighborhood, gray was known to them as a repeat offender, he saw them look at him and ran, hence reasonable suspicion.

originally posted by: JdSmith
a reply to: Greven

again your the one who is incorrect.

Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away.

But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.

But several legal experts say that because he was standing in a drug-infested area, Gray's decision to bolt on April 12 may have justified the decision by four bicycle-riding officers to pursue and detain him.

both come the above formCan you run from police? US courts apply a double standard and you can do a search

Evading arrest is a crime. The detainment and searching of people who flee unprovoked is not. Period.

You are either guilty of a crime or you are not guilty of a crime. There is no 'close enough.'

Again, I asked what crime he committed. As fleeing unprovoked from the police is not a crime, then what other crime did he commit?

Oh, and what's this about:

originally posted by: JdSmith
so my saying evading arrest wasn't exactly correct, but close enough.

Because I don't recall responding to you before. Unless you are logged in under a second account, that is.

Oh, right, your edit earlier:

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
well as much as one can be, i mean a known criminal, who has been arrested before on drug charges runs.
here is a snopes for ya.
Freddie Gray Rap Sheet

Please note that, as Snopes points out, this list is not his convictions, but arrests:

The record suggests that, as the years went by, Gray became harder to convict of a drug crime. Police kept arresting him. Prosecutors kept putting him on dockets. But after he was convicted of illegal drug possession when he was 18, Gray mostly avoided jail time.

Court records show not-guilty verdicts, cases dropped, closed or put on the inactive docket. There's one "probation after conviction" for a drug charge last August. Those are pretty typical outcomes for someone police frequently suspect of being a street-level drug dealer.

Just keep that in mind when you look at such a record - that he was arrested a lot and mostly found innocent or cases were dropped.

a reply to: Greven

yea that was me, i had to switch computers the other one was crapping out been doing wired stuff used the ex's old one.was set up different then. forgot name was different when i posted that why the edit. fixed the log in page now.

any way, if the cops gave him a lawful order to stop, when he started to run which I'm almost certain they did, i can't find that right now from when that story broke, will be looking. that would be enough for them to detain and search him. then finding the knife arrest him if they thought the knife to be illegal.

so yes i do stand corrected in the evading /probable cause, but they did have enough for reasonable suspicion.

a reply to: Greven

well just split hares, they would have had to have the substances to arrest him. unless you think that every cop that arrested him just kept him as a target all through those years.

a reply to: Greven

also from the snopes report.

the Associated Press concluded that Gray had been "in and out of prison for several drug convictions in Baltimore" since 2008:

also

Freddie Gray's arrest record included charges of second-degree assault, distribution of marijuana, and illegal gambling. While many of the charges levied against Gray have already seen their day in court, the final item on Gray's record, a possession charge from March 2015, was "abated by death."

ETA:
one more from a link on the snopes page.

Owing likely to the diligence of a clerk, the Maryland District Court records on Freddie Gray already have been updated. The disposition of Case No. 5B02287290, in which Gray was charged with attempted distribution of an unspecified illegal drug, appears capitalized and in boldface: ABATED BY DEATH.

Someone made the change Tuesday, just three days after the 25-year-old Gray died at Shock Trauma of injuries sustained during his arrest in West Baltimore a week earlier.

Another drug case against Gray, scheduled for Baltimore Circuit Court in May, remains on active status. But certainly the court clerks will find their way to updating that record, too.
Freddie Gray a victim of America's longest war

so it turns out that he had two cases pending for drug charges, when he ran.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

If they had the contraband, then that evidence should have led to a conviction.

Harassment isn't unheard of - recall Ferguson, where blacks were stopped much more frequently than whites, yet blacks who were stopped were less likely than whites to have contraband.

Suppose the numerous arrests that failed to produce a conviction soured Mr. Gray on the police. Maybe enough that, since he kept getting arrested, he feared the police and ran on sight of them.

a reply to: Greven

just face it he was known to them as a dealer, they were increasing patrols for drugs in that neighborhood, he saw them and ran.
they chased him with reasonable suspicion, searched and found a knife they thought to be illegal, arrested him for it.
he tried to hurt himself for some reason or another, and he ___ up.

they made a good faith arrest.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Abysha

For every unarmed person needlessly gunned down by police officers, I hope there are millions in damages and spent resources as a result.

Do you feel the same way every time a police officer is gunned down needlessly at a traffic stop, or because they are just sitting in their cars?

Are you familiar with cause and effect ?...

Perhaps there would be less violence towards police if there was less violence toward the public from the police.....

To be clear i am against violence from either party, i realize police deal with some real scumbags and sometimes heavy handed tactics are needed, with stories like Freddy Gray however the inconsistencies in the stories just do not add up and regardless of whether or not the media is complicit in the confusion.....

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Abysha

For every unarmed person needlessly gunned down by police officers, I hope there are millions in damages and spent resources as a result.

Do you feel the same way every time a police officer is gunned down needlessly at a traffic stop, or because they are just sitting in their cars?

If they are gunned down by public servants paid for with my taxes, then yes.

originally posted by: Greven
Fleeing from the police is not a crime, if the police have not detained you or issued an order to you.

Incorrect...

Had it been a voluntary contact by police he could have told them to kick rocks and walked away with no problem. However in this instance he was known to the officers, including his criminal history. He was in a high crime/drug area where law enforcement was conducting saturation patrols. Upon seeing the police he fled. The purpose of contact was his criminal history known to the officers, his presence in a high crime area. Finally Gray was a convicted Felon and at the time was on probation, which changes the manner in which police can deal with a person. He was in possession of a spring-assisted knife, which is in fact illegal under Maryland law (contrary to what Mosby stated).

It would be a lawful investigative detention which he fled.


Criminal History - Freddie Grey

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

You may want to brush up on the facts and laws yourself since you dont seem to be familiar with them.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

If you are going to lump all police into one category then it should not be an issue for you if police lumped all people in as criminals.

Yes? No?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

If you are going to lump all police into one category then it should not be an issue for you if police lumped all people in as criminals.

Yes? No?

You miss understand me....

I was simply stating that violence does not solve violence and as long as we have stories like the story we are talking about here there will always be someone willing to escalate it .....

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

nobody escalated anything, he ran, they chased, captured, searched, arrested and transported him.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

nobody escalated anything, he ran, they chased, captured, searched, arrested and transported him.

Clearly there is a communication break down here....the escalation i am talking about is hypothetical ...so after freddy some dumb ass decides he wants to get revenge for freddy dying in custody and shoots a cop... then the cops get heavy handed and someone else dies...this is the cycle i am talking about...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The cops wont get heavy handed if the dumbass doesn't try to kill people. I love how its put back on the police while the NTAC is the one trying to kill.