Almost 2.5 million people on US watch lists.

Terrorist Screening Database.

The Terrorist Screening Database or TSDB is the central terrorist watchlist consolidated by the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center and used by multiple agencies to compile their specific watchlists and for screening.

As of June 2016 the list is estimated to contain over 2,484,442 records, consisting of 1,877,133 individual identities.[1][2]

Approximately 1,600 nominations are suggested daily, 600 names are removed and 4,800 records are modified by the U.S. intelligence community.

Approximately one out of twenty of the people on the list are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents.[3]

I wasnt sure of the distinction.

It says 2.5 million records and 1.9 million individuals.

I chose to use the higher number in the title because I feel like they are being less than straightforward with their semantics. Regardless, these are just estimates since the numbers are from 2007.

Even if its 2 million people, thats a lot of people who face some type of restriction (flying) or additional scrutiny and suspicion.

Theres no way to know if youre on them, why you were placed on them nor anyway to get off of them.

From 2006:

Marshals: Innocent People Placed On 'Watch List' To Meet Quota.

If this isnt crazy enough, we can be relatively certain that these arent just "terrorists" but also "political dissidents".

The DHS just said that "Right wingers" are just as dangerous as "terrorists". Under a Republican administration, it will probably be anti-war protesters or OWSers.

An investigation is different from a watch list.

If someone is up to monkey business, an investigation is reasonable but a watch list, which has a presumption of guilt, is not.

If it was up to TPTB, the no fly no buy list would already be in place.

As usual, govt progresses their agenda and abuse of rights incrementally: no fly list, no buy list, terrorism watch list, and right on cue, the KILL list.

These lists shouldnt exist in the first place, let alone be written into law used to further strip us of our rights.

You can believe that '2 million' number if you like. Everyone is under watch, from every computer and every camera, everywhere.

a reply to: intrptr

Truth.

But all of us havent been deprived of our rights... yet.

a reply to: gladtobehere

This what I was saying in another thread.
Too easy to be put on a list in error.
Now we find out they are just throwing names on there to fill a quota.

Well, if they are using funny numbers, I would have to guess the number of individuals is a lot higher than that.
If a "group", is counted as one, such as, for example, the Michigan Militia, are you going to try to tell me that they don't have information on every single member of that group? (not you specifically op)

Because I would not believe you.

But yeah, let them use these Lists, when doing a background check. I don't see a problem with that, at all.
(sarcasm icon here)

originally posted by: intrptr

You can believe that '2 million' number if you like. Everyone is under watch, from every computer and every camera, everywhere.

We give way too much credit to the 3 letter agencies of the United States. They wouldn't be able to monitor 20% of what goes on in American networks even if they tried.

Hell, even when the NSA was collecting data from everybody it did very little to help them in their investigations and basically loaded hard drives with terabytes of useless information.

And I imagine this information it's accurate in the article, because I don't think they are counting those where they could be deemed national security issues etc.

~Tenth

originally posted by: intrptr

You can believe that '2 million' number if you like. Everyone is under watch, from every computer and every camera, everywhere.

Oh, it goes much deeper than that. Buy a box of .22 bullets at Walmart with a credit card and then if they have a reason in the future, they can data mine that and bring up about any item of your life if you used a credit card to buy.

a reply to: Aliensun

That would imply that credit card companies are all feeding every single piece of data to the government.

Which is just not true. They could subpoena that information from the company, but they don't have access to it off hand.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

We give way too much credit to the 3 letter agencies of the United States. They wouldn't be able to monitor 20% of what goes on in American networks even if they tried.

Not the agencies, the tools they use. They only actively watch people currently under suspicion, but everyones electronic activity is monitored by computer software and flags are raised when certain key words or activity arise. They store all the other data for 'future reference'. You know, the part of Miranda Warning that says, "anything you say can and will be used against you".

Modern computer centers like the one in Ogden, Utah, provide the storage, ever increasing facial recognition software and ever 'fused' collaboration between all those local state and federal alphabet agencies insure a future scenario that has computers doing all the tracking of everyone, everywhere they go.

a computer 'center'

Approximately 1,600 nominations are suggested daily, 600 names are removed and 4,800 records are modified

Wow. No wonder Omar was able to slide by despite being on lists multiple times prior to the shooting.

Seems like making larger lists is a pretty terrible idea. They can barely maintain the list that already exists. Thankfully some people in Washington are smart enough to see this.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: intrptr

But all of us haven't been deprived of our rights… yet.

You rights are an illusion you maintain until they turn their eyes on you.

You have the right to do as they say, or else.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Everyone should try and get on the watch list, apparently there's so much info they can't even sift through it all, and remember the excuse for this illegal intrusion on privacy was "terrorism", how can they catch terrorists when they can't even screen all the info

a reply to: intrptr

I see where you're coming from, but Tools are not autonomous yet ( in their ability to analyse and report, they just capture data) and you still need a human to interpret that data.

Which those agencies are usually terrible at doing. If they had some AI program, then I would 100% be on same WHAT THE HOLY HELL page.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Aliensun

originally posted by: intrptr

You can believe that '2 million' number if you like. Everyone is under watch, from every computer and every camera, everywhere.

Oh, it goes much deeper than that. Buy a box of .22 bullets at Walmart with a credit card and then if they have a reason in the future, they can data mine that and bring up about any item of your life if you used a credit card to buy.

Just like the real reason behind back ground checks isn't to see if you are 'crazy' (lol) or not, but to keep tabs on where the guns are. That they didn't catch dude before blowing up shows that. He was under direct suspicion several times by the FBI and still they didn't prevent what happened.

The basic truth is they can't prevent what is coming, they just want to track everyone and their activity. They can't and aren't interested in protecting the public at large, they are really interested in protecting themselves from the public.

They use the same language about the war on terror. They are 'protecting' the countries they invade, 'intervening' and 'helping' them.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Which is just not true. They could subpoena that information from the company, but they don't have access to it off hand.

Really tenth? Online purchases are online activity. Computer 'checkpoints' record all data, not just some data.

Edit: One way I know this is from the past. All checks written by any bank or company to anyone used go through the Federal Reserve building in SF on the west coast. If you are delinquent on payments or win a lottery or get an inheritance that was fed to the IRS automatically.

Remember all the stamp marks on your return checks when you got them back from the bank?

Now its check-less pretty much, and even more monitored. Whether its financial, or personal. In fact Snowden showed how the uS gubment is eavesdropping on foreign dignitaries all over the world, remember?

Oh there are kinks and there are still ways to get around it, but not for much longer, they are sowing it all up so the only way you can be anonymous anymore is to live in a cave. And that alone makes you a person of interest. Thats what they are waiting for… lol, only lone wolf terrorists live off grid, haven't you heard?

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I see where you're coming from, but Tools are not autonomous yet ( in their ability to analyze and report, they just capture data) and you still need a human to interpret that data.

I'm surprised at you, thou ave forgotten the ministry of information from "1984" ave we?. Favorite scene from Brazil:

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Aliensun

That would imply that credit card companies are all feeding every single piece of data to the government.

Which is just not true. They could subpoena that information from the company, but they don't have access to it off hand.

~Tenth

Yes they do.

We put in code that sent ALL credit card information to the Government as part of the Patriot Act. They have it all so don't fool yourself.

a reply to: tothetenthpower



If the credit card companies have the data, so does the government one way or another especially if they want it.


Where or where were you a few years ago when it was discovered that all phone lines were being tapped and it was strongly denied until it could not be denied any longer?

Is there anyway we can search those lists to see what names are on them? I'd like to see if i made any of those lists.

Buy your ammo with cash and stay off the grid.
In any event I believe the numbers are inflated by a huge factor...dose it make sense to chase your tail looking for a hand full of bad guys...the bad guys would get lost in the bucket and bucket of people being "watch".
Nope...doesn't work most likely a targeted and specific profile method is in place...and hopefully working.
Cheers