Does it matter if 'reality' is real?

a reply to: Profusion

purely on a selfish level :

it only matters to me if someone else gets " cheat codes " and i dont

i am not talking about the fact that ussain bolt can run faster than me , steven hawking is more inteligent or brad pitt more attractive to women and donald trump has more money

originally posted by: ancientthunder
Time is just a human concept a way of labeling, so what else could be of value in looking in to time? a reply to: Greggers

so i am not 66?

originally posted by: ancientthunder
a reply to: Greggers
Thanks for the reply and understand where your finger is pointing. but can that fabric not be stretched or shrunk? If so time is only a current way of measuring that fabric and I am not saying that its a bad system. Once we go in to relativity, which unlike you I do not know much about it. But what I would say, is that going by the word what is relative is only relative to what we know and hold as a fact. Its a bit like gravity, we just havent got it right yet. Me may be getting closer, but..... who knows.

Time isn't just a unit of measurement. It is that, of course. But it also a phenomena. For example, we have to correct the passage of time in our GPS satellites because time moves differently up there than it does down here. If we didn't, our GPS maps would all be way off within a fairly short period of time.

a reply to: Greggers

Time seems more than just a unit of measurement through. If humanity had never been around to attempt to quantify one moment from the next, time would still flow forward, entropy would still increase.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Greggers

Time seems more than just a unit of measurement through. If humanity had never been around to attempt to quantify one moment from the next, time would still flow forward, entropy would still increase.

Right. That's why I've said twice now that time is more than just a unit of measurement.

Although, as a side note, whether time flows is a matter of debate. In a block universe, time is fixed and WE flow through it. But that's truly an aside, as thus far it makes no practical difference.

a reply to: Greggers

Time flows, ebes along and moves at pace. Whether or not it does so in a liner fashion, or does so throughout our entire universe, that would be the real side note.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Greggers

Time flows, ebes along and moves at pace. Whether or not it does so in a liner fashion, or does so throughout our entire universe, that would be the real side note.

It certainly would appear that time flows. But that is not necessarily the case.

Are you familiar with the concept of a block universe? In a block universe (which some would say is supported by GR) all the individual moments of time are fixed. The future and the past are no more or less real than the present.

a reply to: Greggers

Sounds like predestination through, and if that's the case then that's freewill out the window, which to be fair is also an illusion of sorts.

Somehow i imagine Humanity in its present form simple does not have the tools or understanding to describe whats really going on, not yet anyway.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Greggers

Sounds like predestination through, and if that's the case then that's freewill out the window, which to be fair is also an illusion of sorts.

Somehow i imagine Humanity in its present form simple does not have the tools or understanding to describe whats really going on, not yet anyway.

Yes, it would appear that it does indeed put free-will out the window, or so many would suggest, unless we have some hidden method of utilizing free will beyond the space-time manifold, so to speak.

Keep in mind, I'm not personally espousing this point of view, although I do find it fascinating to think about.

Here is a page that discusses some of the scientific and philosophical ramifications as espoused by various physicists and philosophers over the years: www.informationphilosopher.com...

a reply to: Greggers

"unless we have some hidden method of utilizing free will beyond the space-time manifold"

Well we possibly share some form of group consciousness as a species but i cant see how or why that would be able to negate the factor of predestination. Possibly if our universe turns out to be of a holographic nature, which our current understanding of mathematics seems to suggest. Guess we will know for sure once we are able to measure the individual unit of Planck time.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Greggers

"unless we have some hidden method of utilizing free will beyond the space-time manifold"

Well we possibly share some form of group consciousness as a species but i cant see how or why that would be able to negate the factor of predestination. Possibly if our universe turns out to be of a holographic nature, which our current understanding of mathematics seems to suggest. Guess we will know for sure once we are able to measure the individual unit of Planck time.

If the block universe is an accurate depiction of reality (this is far from certain) the only way we could have free-will is if it came from somewhere beyond the points that are already fixed. This gets really hairy to think about. But imagine a scenario in which you and I were the only two beings in existence, and we existed outside of space and time as abstract spirtual ethers (for lack of a better term -- it's kind of hard to describe something with no known physical properties). Now let's say you and I have a conversation and decide what we'd like to experience. Then, once we've made every relevant decision, we run a simulation of "physical space" which gens up the entire block universe simultaneously, wherein our decisions are played out.

It sounds wayyyy out there. But I can't think of any other way (aside from something else equally out there) to maintain free will in a block universe.

a reply to: Greggers

Sounds like we might all be Boltzmann brains in this block universe? Statistically speaking of course.



en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Greggers

Sounds like we might all be Boltzmann brains in this block universe? Statistically speaking of course.

en.wikipedia.org...

Star for the video. That song made me laugh out loud.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Asking if reality is real is like asking if falsity is false.

Really?
Is it?

Really. It is.

Is reality it?

originally posted by: ancientthunder

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Asking if reality is real is like asking if falsity is false.

Really?
Is it?

Really. It is.

Is reality it?

Explain reality; describe its function.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: ancientthunder

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Asking if reality is real is like asking if falsity is false.

Really?
Is it?

Really. It is.

Is reality it?

Explain reality; describe its function.

Is it really worth even trying, why not just let everything speak for it self.

originally posted by: ancientthunder

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: ancientthunder

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Asking if reality is real is like asking if falsity is false.

Really?
Is it?

Really. It is.

Is reality it?

Explain reality; describe its function.

Is it really worth even trying, why not just let everything speak for it self.

As if reality needs to explain herself. Still, it is worth trying. We are speaking about something instead of nothing after all.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
ok then I will try! For reality to exist it needs space to give birth to reality in too. Space is the cup of reality, everything else is the fruit of reality.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I'm going to Strawberry fields,
Nothing is real.
And nothing to get hung about.


cya

a reply to: ancientthunder

It's fruit bowls all the way down?