STOP comparing US gun laws to Australia gun laws.

How people ignore history. America probably never would have went to war with England had they not tried to confiscate "two canon and some powder" from us. "Over the bridge that arched the floods..".."That sparked The shot, heard around the world". Australia was Englands "penal colony". Because England at that time had standards and put their scum, on an island, away from the general public. Now Australia is more "civilized" than us? Australia has produced some fine men and women and god bless the ANZACS! But you can't compare a nation born in blood and battle, to one born as a prison colony.
We're Americans, we own guns. Deal with it! Or try, come and take them...but do pack for it, It'll be a long weekend.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The fact that you have a culture where 4 guys would even considering doing that in the 1st place, that's where your problem lies.

a reply to: cavtrooper7 i,ll think you,ll find since that school incident as you put it is the reason we have such strict gun laws,only took us 1 incident to change the laws to try make sure nothing like that happens again and touch wood it has never happened again and never will.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Touche.

I was just teasing but I do think there's an element of truth to it.

a reply to: Atsbhct

You error. Homicides or "gun deaths" in the US. are not disassembled by what caused the death. Whether it being murder or, you deserved it. It's all chalked up in "killed by a gun". Statistics are a bummer I know... But if you're going to throw them out? At least be honest about them. You have to be logical. Some died from unlawful use. Most died from lawful use. Hard to swallow I know... Your feelings are strong.

a reply to: Atsbhct

You error. Homicides or "gun deaths" in the US. are not disassembled by what caused the death. Whether it being murder or, you deserved it. It's all chalked up in "killed by a gun". Statistics are a bummer I know... But if you're going to throw them out? At least be honest about them. You have to be logical. Some died from unlawful use. Most died from lawful use. Hard to swallow I know... Your feelings are strong.

a reply to: murphy22

Police shouldn't have to shoot so many people, either.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: Shamrock6

The fact that you have a culture where 4 guys would even considering doing that in the 1st place, that's where your problem lies.

No matter what anyone be they members on a forum or other countries polies have to say they mean nothing when it comes to your own countries rights. It should be cared about as much as other countries that might want Aussies to stop eating vegemite because they don`t like it.

The people you should be only concerned with are your traitor polies trying to strip and remove your rights using Australia as an example.

USA gun supported here, who`d of thunk it?

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: Shamrock6

The fact that you have a culture where 4 guys would even considering doing that in the 1st place, that's where your problem lies.

I dunno what planet you live on, but that's not an American thing. Pretty certain guys act like creeps in every country on the planet.

If that's a reference to a rape culture that some folks like to claim exists here, that's also bunk. Clearly the lady in question has a brother who didn't think it was okay for them to do what they did. Myself and one other member both point blank called out another member who tried to cast the blame for the incident on the lady in question.

So...no.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: sparky31

It's a different culture altogether from ours, we thankfully realised a while back that if we didn't stop people from having guns we were going to wipe ourselves out.
It's a weird thing because really we live in a violent culture but we are raised from a young age that if you can handle yourself, you'll be alright.
So fighting is part of our culture and we look down on people that pull out a weapon in a fight, that's a good way to get a beating as it means you are scared to face up without a tool. Real men fight with fists not weapons, sorry America.
This same culture won't tolerate an uneven fight, so quite often random members of the public will jump in to balance it out.
So yeah we can't compare the cultures, if we had guns we would most likely have a much higher homicide rate.

So fighting is a part of your culture huh? Fist can be just as deadly as a gun used correctly so why do you not look down of the use of them too? A real man dont resort to violence unless he has to. And a true man ends it as fast as possible as well and humanely as possible. Living in a culture of Might makes right is very stupid in all honesty.

SO yeah brag about your manliness just know that in the US people who act liek that get shot more and the people who shoot them in self defense get off the majority of the time. Dont care how 'manly" you are A bullet dont care.

a reply to: gps777

When we started having these discussions on ATS I just couldn't get why America wouldn't WANT to give up their weapons but now I see that it's not as simplistic as that. Gun control is an issue but I'm thinking more and more that crime is a bigger factor.
The fact is, when a house break in occurs in the U.K, it almost never ends in death, there is the odd occasion but it's rare. So there isn't a need to protect yourself, some people might keep a golf club or a baseball bat to hand but that's about all the protection you'll need.
In the U.S it's far more likely you will be killed in the same scenario, so you need that protection as you can't ever be sure that the perp isn't carrying.
I get it now and I like these discussions because it does allow me to see it differently, it's just a foreign culture to most of us from the U.K so we don't get it.

The thing that annoys me though is that they see owning a gun as proving that they are in a free country, but we are glad we have our gun laws, so we don't see it as a freedom lost.
If we wanted one we can still own one, we just need to apply for a license and give enough justification.
Most of us don't want, care or need one.

a reply to: yuppa

Spot on, don't disagree. Wasn't talking about my manliness, sorry that I gave you that impression.
I was talking about the culture I live in, as I said it's pretty violent at times.
I've broken up more fights than I've been involved in, so I'm not some idiot that likes fighting.

a reply to: Moonshinne

M.A.D (Mutually Assured Destruction) It's a cold war ideal and Americans are addicted to it.

Guns belong in the hands of farmers who need them for feral animal control, the Police and the Armed forces. It is much easier to maintain order when you do not have a rogue private army with allegiance to nobody other than themselves wandering the streets.

Guns do keep people safe. When they are kept in the right hands. And Joe public with all his unpredictability and predisposition to going rogue is not the right hands.

*Edit* To add, Police shootings in Australia are very rare. Why you ask?

Because the cops are not having to deal with armed nutbags waving guns around on a daily basis. If an offender needs to be taken out, a good tackle, a dog or a tazer is usually more than enough to deal with it.

originally posted by: sparky31

originally posted by: Sometimes

originally posted by: sparky31
they were drunk so u pulled your gun? see in my town we have a drunk situation its a fist fight then cops are called or it excalates then calms down,either way no one ends up dead over nothing.

i should have added cause no one has a gun to pull,we get our rage out the old fashioned way then everyone makes up and goes home happy,alcohol and guns is a recipe for disaster.

So four drunk guys surround your sister and you go in there to fight them and you are outnumbered 4:1 and then they knock you out and take your sister. The point was in the OP is that him pulling the gun prevented any escalation at all. He basically threatened the drunks that if they tried to fight him or tried to touch his sister he would open fire on them, so the gun prevented anyone from getting hurt, but also insured that the OP and his sister would be able to defend themselves.

yeah pulling a gun helps? so i pull my gun,4 guys pull their guns,i,m dead,my sisters dead and 4 or maybe 3 or maybe 2 guys disapear in to the night cause i didn,t manage to get all 4 at once,that really helped the situation.

So what good would it do to try to brawl with a group of drunks in the first place if all of them were packing a gun? Plus you are being hypothetical, I was refering to what actually happened. Not everyone carrying a gun want's to kill someone, as they will likely get life in jail for that, and convenience stores are loaded with cameras so there is no escaping your profile and the plates of the car you came in.

No ones comparing the laws.. there's no point. They are chalk and cheese.

People are comparing the outcomes to these laws, which are also drastically different

We do laugh when Americans believe there's no relationship between the two.


What we should be comparing, is the common sense approach Australia took to gun violence.
Compare that to the totally ridiculous, fly of the handle response that Americans yell about..

Here is a great and comical way to understand it:


please, save all your nonsense.. we have heard your lame excuses why you believe the government is out to take your guns, or crooks would still have guns, or it would endanger you blah blah blah.. we've heard it and no matter how many times you say it we still think your acting like a bunch of children without a clue.

but that's just us.. the rest of the world!

originally posted by: Moonshinne
And no I wouldn't start firing into a open crowd. Holy crap.

If you're not willing to start firing into an open crowd, then how would your gun ever allow you to return fire against Mateen in that scenario?

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
but that's just us.. the rest of the world!

Yep, I've lived in two countries where gun controls were introduced after mass shootings.

Do I feel oppressed?

No

Do I feel unsafe?

No, the total opposite - I can walk the streets and know that if I encounter trouble it is 99.9% likely it will be an unarmed person so my likelihood of survival is extremely good.

America can do what it wants with it's laws. But here in the rest of world we acted and it worked. And having northern / southern countries bordering doesn't give them an excuse either. That is what well organised and well armed border control is for.

a reply to: Atsbhct

You're absolutely right! Civilians should never be expected to be Soldiers. And police are civilians, period! In most leo situations if the cop had half the bravery of a Soldier or the commonsense...the "situation" wouldn't have occurred in the first place. But civilian police are trained to collect revenue and "convictions". They're a cop for a reason. Chances are the military couldn't use them. Don't get me wrong. A lot of ex military become cops. I was military myself. In charge of troops. But for some reason some people need "authority" to feel validation and selfworth.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Seems it helped the situation alright, since the member this is directed at isn't talking about the time he and his sister got murdered by four dudes with guns.

And what if they did? If you have open access to guns, those 4 guys could have been carrying just as easily as this poster was. What if it was one of them with the gun, and he had to watch his sister gang raped at the point of a weapon?

This time it wasn't, but out of the 6 people in that story, 4 were the bad guys. Statistically 2/3 of the time it's the bad guy whose going to have the advantage there.