Is Science Bullsh*t? John Oliver Explains The Corruption Behind Scientific Studies

Clearly Jesus is coming soon.

a reply to: BO XIAN
I have got two sides of an issue by wording it different from places like Mayo Clinic and Harvard school of medicine. I like looking at different perspectives sometimes too.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when they do research and blow it all up to the public and the whole direction they are going is wrong. Investigating the best way to do something we shouldn't even be doing.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Greggers


It often takes ten to fifteen research articles to find the uncut truth about a matter.

But only one blog post from collective-evolution.com, apparently.

The hypocrisy of OP being so credulous with unscientific, sensationalist sources but apparently oh so skeptical of mainstream science is astounding.

I'de never heard of collective-evolution.com. I tried to look it up but it appears to be something I wouldn't be interested in from what it said in Wiki just on the search page.

I actually look up what people say about disease in social media once in a while and I try to figure out how the weird cure they say works for things works. They usually got the method of action wrong, but their treatment is often legit. Not a cure, just a treatment. I usually don't post, it is just a research stimulator.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: schuyler

Oh, Dear me, Schuyler,

We HAVE to quit meeting this way and agreeing so much.

People will start to talk!

I don't think your primary reference group could TOLERATE THAT! I'd hate to see you ousted!

Nevertheless, I agree with your post wholesale. Yet again.

Another miracle. Clearly Jesus is coming soon.

Is there an ATS rule against sh!tposting? Because this seems to me the definition of sh!tposting. Low effort "rofl i agree lol" posts add nothing to the discussion and merely clutter up threads.

You mean like yours? Same rule applies. Everything doesn't happen in a thread. There are other issues which you may know nothing about, and which you needn't know anything about. Private jokes, for example, or discussions within a discussion. Just because you lack understanding of what was really said does not make it a ****post. It just means you're ignorant.

For the record on the main point of the thread, I believe in science and the Scientific Method. I am certain that science CAN figure out reality. It's just that there are barriers in the way of doing that, many of which are put in place by the "culture of science," meaning scientists are only human. To say scientists screw up in no way demeans science or the Scientific Method itself.

Indeed, it was so VERY clever to "disguise" your profanity that way to circumvent another one of ATS's rules on profanity.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: schuyler

Climate change was one of two examples that Oliver used to make his point about how many just choose which study they want to believe is fact and ignore the rest, the other was vaccines causing autism.

Oh. Well, I was not aware of that. I used climate change as an example because of known fraud in the climate change "industry." That doesn't mean climate change is not real or even that it's not man made. It just means that there has been some obvious fraud and tinkering with data so it's a good example of the mis-application of the scientific method. Reality is not following the predictive models. This is not a discussion on climate change, so I won't go into the issue any further. I've made many threads and posts in depth on this issue elsewhere. I was just using it as an example.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: schuyler

Oh, Dear me, Schuyler,

We HAVE to quit meeting this way and agreeing so much.

People will start to talk!

I don't think your primary reference group could TOLERATE THAT! I'd hate to see you ousted!

Nevertheless, I agree with your post wholesale. Yet again.

Another miracle. Clearly Jesus is coming soon.

Is there an ATS rule against sh!tposting? Because this seems to me the definition of sh!tposting. Low effort "rofl i agree lol" posts add nothing to the discussion and merely clutter up threads.

You mean like yours? Same rule applies

So pointing out sh!tposting is now sh!tposting? Nice doublethink there.

Anyway, if the mods deem it's off-topic I'm sure they'll remove the post accordingly.

"lol i agree lmao! xXxXxX"

originally posted by: Nochzwei
a reply to: BO XIAN

einsteins gr is a case in point

General Relativity is not an example of what the OP is talking about. In fact, its mathematical calculations work for all macro-scale objects as far as we can tell (disregarding dark matter, which is still a huge question mark when it comes to the gravity of galactic-mass objects) while quantum mechanics is quite simply the most successful mathematical model of all time and describes physics at the nano scale.

Unless you have developed a Theory of Everything to tie the two together, GR and QM are the best man is capable of doing, and it's certainly well enough for all practical, real-world applications at present.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
THAT'S the real title, folks.

I find this a great article with lots of clarity and accuracy.

"Here are some things you can do to determine if a study has been properly conducted:
• Find out, if possible, who is funding the study "
In a world where Faithless 'Xtians' need to validate their 'beliefs', there is more and more antipathy against the science that refutes so many 'beliefs'.
Perhaps that biases your agreement/Perspective?

I hope the scientific minded among us can approach it with a scientific mind and scientific objectivity vs with RELIGIOUS FERVOR AND HOSTILITY.

Not a problem for those uninfected with 'beliefs'.

This is a problem WITHIN SCIENCE.
It is NOT the problem of traditional religion.

Ah, already setting up the defense..
I beg to differ, but corruption, vanity, dishonesty, greed... is most certainly rife in your 'traditional religion' as well as every other area that vain people turn toward!

At least science is constantly dumping lies in favor of new 'truths', which, in time, turn into 'lies', which is all part of the Whole!
That constant process of weeding out the corruption and lies does not occur in 'religion', in the religions, the corruption and vanity and dishonesty is rewarded, the 'sin du jour'.
The processes of the ever mutating science has brought you the computer upon which you are working, and the medication in your system! Etc... Etc... Etc...

The carved in stone (conditional) 'Truths' that vanity/ego (imagination) brings, and the resultant insanity of 'belief infections', shows it's toxic viral nature at every turn!
Even among some scientists.
After all, they have to work in a 'Xtian' society, that they need corruption and lies to function within that paradigm is no surprise.
"What greater testament to your corruption then to succeed so well in a world corrupt from the beginning!"

It is a problem OF SCIENCE in that it is inherently rooted in the SCIENTIFIC ESTABLISHMENT.

No! It is a problem with vain man, and is inherently rooted in sin, the lack of unconditional Love!

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity ('Charity' is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

Religion cannot mandate a fix for this problem.

Because their Faithless vanity blinds them to the fact of their own infection to the extent that they constantly need to 'defend' it, to 'validate/feed' it and to 'propagate/spread it'!
The last thing the ego/vanity wants to do is to 'recognize itself' in the mirror!
Hell, the religious are so vain as to imagine that the infection that they spread IS the 'cure'.

Blaming religion will not fix this problem.

Well, that is certainly true.

It is a SCIENTIFIC ESTABLISHMENT PROBLEM that requires that institution/set of institutions to fix it.

Corruption is not the cure for corruption.
Just look at the fruits of 'religion' in light of the fruits of science!

Trouble is, they are peopled by . . . uhhhh . . . people. Therefore, it is highly unlikely to ever be fixed in our lifetimes.

Is the same true for you and I?
Are you abandoning the quest for unconditional Love?
THAT is the 'cure' for corruption/vanity!

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity ('Charity' is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

Public Service Announcement.....

Go After the Ball, Not the Player!

Going after each other, name-calling, bickering, all that stuff needs to stop....NOW!!!!

You are responsible for your own posts.


Thank you....


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

double post sorry.

originally posted by: Chickensalad
Soooo


Isn't that actually a problem with the scientific method itself?

If the method can be tinkered with to produce a desired outcome, then how is the scientific method even sound?

because other scientists that dispute it, and can make a case with sound verifiable evidence will win the argument....if your bible or Imam tells you something totally stupid, you still have to believe it.

The compulsive reporting practices of media outlets and poor reading comprehension skills of the average consumer do not reflect the integrity of the scientific method. It seems to me you ought to be addressing media coverage and how it affects the public's relationship with research institutions. But no, sure, rag on science. It's not like you've done that recently or anything.

a reply to: BO XIAN

That fits so well with things my dad says decades ago! A scientific type himself, he had little patience for the political games so predominant in the scientific community.

As scientist, i can absolutely assure you that all research had been performed for "somebodys" money, oh well there are always agenda.....in todays world there are no place for Copernicus, Bruno and Tesla.......untill its not profitable of coarse. If you see a science paper published something about anything, agenda pushing.
Thank you

originally posted by: boomstick88
As scientist, i can absolutely assure you that all research had been performed for "somebodys" money, oh well there are always agenda.....in todays world there are no place for Copernicus, Bruno and Tesla.......untill its not profitable of coarse. If you see a science paper published something about anything, agenda pushing.
Thank you

you have to pay people to do science so they can afford to do science.

a reply to: TzarChasm

It's true but there are serious problems arising.

Like I posted from the nejm with conflicts of interest or the government studies on fabricating studies. It's not just some bad journalism it's actual evidence tampering especially in pharmaceutical companies. They even hire ghost writers to manipulate peoples opinions.

Science has a lot of ethical questions that are being left un answered and while it's not the fault of science this age of corruption has also significantly corrupted science standards as far as research studies.

Literally 1/3 of the expirements the retried in my article couldn't be reproduced and 1/2 of the studies were fabricated or had significant conflicts of interest

That is capitalism perverting science if you ask me. Sure it costs money but that doesn't mean standard and ethics go out the window.

It's possible 1/2 the pharmaceutical drugs in circulation had falsified trials.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TzarChasm

It's true but there are serious problems arising.

Like I posted from the nejm with conflicts of interest or the government studies on fabricating studies. It's not just some bad journalism it's actual evidence tampering especially in pharmaceutical companies. They even hire ghost writers to manipulate peoples opinions.

Science has a lot of ethical questions that are being left in answered and while it's not the fault of science this age of corruption has also significantly corrupted science standards as far as research studies.

Literally 1/3 of the expirements the retried in my article couldn't be reproduced and 1/2 of the studies were fabricated or had significant conflicts of interest

That is capitalism perverting science if you ask me. Sure it costs money but that doesn't mean standard and ethics go out the window.

It's possible 1/2 the pharmaceutical drugs in circulation had falsified trials.

If you find a way to do science for free, be sure to tell the world.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Thats seriously your response?

Thats sad and pathetic.

Guess what it ain't science when your fabricating results and selling snake oil.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TzarChasm

Thats seriously your response?

Thats sad and pathetic.

Guess what it ain't science when your fabricating results and selling snake oil.

Snake oil? You mean holy water?

a reply to: TzarChasm

No I mean fabricating lab results so your product doesn't loose money. The product being medicine or anything else.

Holy water?

That doesn't even make sense.

But yes at that point it's the same exact thing.