So, after mass shooting, Australia "banned" guns 20 years ago = ZERO mass killings since

a reply to: mkultra11

Do you have a source on that?

a reply to: SudoNim

I'm not laughing anything off. I'm just not willing to blame a hundred million law abiding gun owners for crimes that they didn't commit any more than I would do so if we were talking about some other issue.

If you want to increase penalties for firearm-related crime, I fully support that. If you want to work on cleaning up criminal and gang infested neighborhoods, I can fully support that, too. And I'm sure there are other methods I'd support for reducing these problems. But again, I'm never going to support gun control that disparages or denies the rights of law-abiding citizens. Nope, sorry, not gonna happen.

originally posted by: vor78
a reply to: SudoNim

I'm not laughing anything off. I'm just not willing to blame a hundred million law abiding gun owners for crimes that they didn't commit any more than I would do so if we were talking about some other issue.

If you want to increase penalties for firearm-related crime, I fully support that. If you want to work on cleaning up criminal and gang infested neighborhoods, I can fully support that, too. And I'm sure there are other methods I'd support for reducing these problems. But again, I'm never going to support gun control that disparages or denies the rights of law-abiding citizens. Nope, sorry, not gonna happen.

So you really want to help as long as you don't lose your toy. Sounds selfish to me.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
mass shootings in America will not stop until gun laws are changed.

However on ATS a huge number of American members just have blinkers on when it comes to this issue, they are so in love with their big guns that they just don't see the problem that the rest of us do.

For a lot of people on ATS this shooting was not a story about a mass shooting but rather the story is how in the aftermath of this they wanted to take their guns.

No, it will not stop until the corrupt is erased from the system.

a reply to: SudoNim

you damn right I laugh out the though of saving 20 lives. What about the hundreds of kids who drown ever year? You could mandate fences and cameras around every body of water on Earth, and kids would still drown. You could mandate every single auto be computer controlled to reduce auto fatalities, and people are still going to die. As safe as commercial planes are, they still go down every year and claim more lives in a single instance than 10 years worth of mass shootings.

People don't live forever, and adopting a mindset that everyone on Earth can be saved is the disillusion thinking of a frightened little paid troll.

Your obvious trolling is obvious. To save maybe 20 lives a years by banning firearms, but then the rape and robberies that have shot up in every country and municipality that installs these controls is of little consequence right? So what if hundreds to thousands more women and the elderly or just small and vulnerable people will be raped, robbed, and/or murdered afterwards. As long as those maybe 20 are not killed by a gun, because it will become hundreds when the criminals celebrate the disarming of a civil society.

Sudonim, I will take the lashings I will incur and just say it, you are a shill. You are a troll. Most of what you say is nowhere near grounded in reality.

Guess what?? 1200+ (at least) people will still be murdered with blades if you ban guns, and that number will actually skyrocket as the next weapon of choice.

I never resort to character attacks or insults, but you are clearly just a damn idiot that knows full well the idiocy of your statements. You are doing it because you serve a different purpose (and master).

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
a reply to: SudoNim
I laugh out the though of saving 20 lives.

a reply to: SudoNim

You can insult me all you like, but don't think for a moment that I much care how it sounds to you. Its not going to change my opinion on the matter.

a reply to: vor78

That's fine. You can try and live with that.

I for one will NEVER laugh at the idea of 20 innocent people's deaths. That's just not who I am, you clearly have a different view on human life.

a reply to: SudoNim

I have a different view on individual rights and the presumption of innocence, that's for certain. Your attempts to generate emotional outrage are not going to change that. I don't know if you're just trolling, but if you are, you're not very good at it.

a reply to: SudoNim

You really have comprehension issues don't you? I didn't say 15 guys correagraphing all with crow bars, or all with bats or all with rolls of quarters in their fists.

Some could have knives, some guns, some a sock with bolts and nuts in it. The point is that being able to carry a gun becomes an equallizer against otherwise overwhelming odds.

Jaden

Australia didnt BAN [all guns]guns ,only semi autos and full autos ,the reason there hasnt been any Major mass shootings is ''The Powers that be'',achieved their goal with their False Flag at Port Arthur ,bringing in a Licencing system whereby all [legal guns ] are Registered so when they are ready to conviscate them when the NWO goes into its final phase ,that will save them alot of work .America is continuing to have False Flag shootings in order to create an OUTRAGE[which hasnt worked as yet ] to get the ''something has to be done about these ''evil guns '' !!!!!! all the limp wrist paranoia do gooders of course are totally behind banning anything including Freedom if it thinks it keeps them safe .The AR15 style rifles they keep moaning about is what the NWO feels threatened by as they dont like the ''Enemy ''[the people ,masses] being armed with a Military rifle ,things cant move further ahead for the NWO and go into the next phase until they are banned .All the gun haters and girls blouses will be the first to bitch and complain when all their freedoms are gone and they are weeping inside the NWO Concentration Camps .

a reply to: SudoNim

Oh I saw what you did there, cute. At least when anyone clicks that they will see the full context. Your masters have lost with the Brexit vote. Quoting me to make me look bad will have no effect. I could probably have them remove it, but I like the factual conversation and thread it links too, so I will wear it with pride

Oh excuse me I had to step over the tears you left behind knowing hundreds of people just died randomly randomly and with evil intent in the time I wrote this and you could not trick people into reckless legislation.

a reply to: SudoNim

Oh yea since your linking to this page, let me drop the stats for those who care about facts and not communist propaganda.

originally posted by: AmericanRealist
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

there is an increase, although it is neither massive nor significant, until Obama came to power. Probably because he works with the people who orders these hits in an effort to achieve the UN's goal of global disarmament.

In the spirit of honesty and serious dialogue, I found some data on Mother JonesI did a quick copy-pasta of some of the data. I did not include injured only killed. Then I added them up by years a president actually took control (Jan 1 following election year)
1982 8
1984 28
1986 15
1987 6
1988 7
1989 6
1990 10
1991 35
1992 9
1993 23
1994 5
1995 6
1996 6
1997 9
1998 14
1999 42
2000 7
2001 5
2003 7
2004 5
2005 17
2006 15
2007 54
2008 18
2009 29
2010 9
2011 19
2012 72
2013 35
2014 14
2015 26
2016

clinton 112 (assault weapons ban)
bush 128 (ban expired)
obama 193 (false flags at least 3 times)

There really is no clear pattern, and the lives lost vary greatly from year to year.
Overall handguns did most the killing. I cannot go to each article they sourced right now, but at first glance it appears that high capacity semi-auto rifles were still categorized when found but now used.
Its no surprise that a horribly divisive president who steps on the majority to further the cause of super minorities (literally fractions of our population) would create an environment where people hate each other enough to kill in order to further a UN disarmament agenda, as well as Soro's anti capitalist agendas.

Fact that many or most of these took place in gun free zones also tells me, there should be NO MORE GUN FREE ZONES IN AMERICA.

Obama/Clinton/Feinstein/Soros probably still have some more false flags up their sleeves before year end no doubt.

a reply to: SudoNim

You don't breathe because everyone else does. You breathe because you NEED to in order to survive. BTW, breath is a noun, BREATHE is a verb.

Jaden

a reply to: SudoNim

You think a firearm is a TOY??? No, he would help so long as his and other law abiding citizens means to protect themselves and their families from those who wish them ill, including both criminals in the civilian world and those in govt, are not taken away.

That you would refer to tools capable of ending life as toys shows what warped of a mindset you have.

Jaden

a reply to: SudoNim

He's not the one that refers to tools of destruction as toys... Yes, the thought of saving 20 lives at the cost of hundreds of millions of people's liberties is laughable. There is a reason, an extremely important reason, for those liberties to exist and even if your proposal could save those 20 lives or 20,000 lives, it still wouldn't be worth the cost.

Do you know why? Because in the last 100 years, the lack of having that liberty has cost over 70 million lives in nations that DIDN'T safe guard those liberties.

Jaden

a reply to: Jaellma

Plenty of bombings and stabbings though. Trucks can also run you down as we've seen. But shyeah, let's take away those guns.

originally posted by: Verse
Just a thought, wouldn't it be harder for the next crazy Joe who decides to kill someone if his access to Rambo-like weaponry were limited? Nobody needs a freaking assault rifle to ...erhmm..*hunt!* I mean what? These guys really hate DUCKS that much? Get a mental help..it's not the duck my friend, it's probably something in your head.
Australia seems to be doing good since they changed their laws and they do have a whole beep-load of people. Being a whole continent and all....why not try their way? At least, limit the access to assault rifles.
I expect more from conspiracy theorists...they should be the guys who REALLY think outside the box. Step your game up America!!

Please give me a legal definition of 'assault rifle'. 'Rambo style weapons' are illegal without a very expensive license. That is assuming by 'Rambo style weapon' you meant a fully automatic weapon.

originally posted by: Jaellma
The facts don't lie. After Australia suffered from the mass shooting where 35 people in Port Arthur were massacred, they severely restricted gun ownership to all in Australia. The result is there have been zero mass killings since.

Yet Britain, which has an even more restrictive set of gun laws, still suffers from gun violence - including a recent-ish mass shooting in Cumbria that left 12 dead and 11 injured.

The facts don't lie. How you try to sell those facts is another matter entirely.

originally posted by: mkultra11

How about sone contex? The overwhelming majority of shooting deaths are by illegally owned guns and in America's inner cities, or black on black crimes. How many of those thousands were from legal owners actually protecting thmselves such as a home invasion or store robbery? Where are those illegal guns coming from? Why are inner cities so crime ridden?

Actually, the overwhelming majority of shooting deaths were suicide. About 62% from 2013 figures if memory serves. There was also a smattering of "accidental shootings" and some simply undetermined, but you're looking at a rate of about 35-37% of firearm-related deaths actually being homicides. The FBI data for 2013 suggested approx 220 (just under 2%) of these were justifiable homicides (ie self defence).

From those figures, the number of white-on-white and black-on-black firearm-related homicides were broadly similar. The issue is when you start to consider that in light of their respective percentage representations.

I'd actually typed out a fully-sourced post with calculations, but then I allowed scripts on a different page I wanted to check and it triggered a refresh here, destroying the post I was writing :/