Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God

originally posted by: pryingopen3rdeye

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: pryingopen3rdeye

I'm willing to bet that you've never met or spoken to a scientist or academic in your life if you honestly believe what you just wrote.

I'd argue it's far more arrogant to make up the position that you think scientists/academics take rather than make the effort to learn and understand exactly what the scientific method is and how academic research is conducted.

quite false, many of my family are in such careers. and as such ive always been keenly interested in science myself.

if you really think the scientific field is not rife with arrogance then id say your just blinded by said arrogance yourself

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: pryingopen3rdeye

It is very much in line to dismiss ideas that have been thoroughly examined and found to not have any foundation in reality. Such as ideas that would contradict physical laws. We can dismiss those at a glance.

By your screen name, i'm assuming that you think taking psychodelics and "prying open" your "third eye" is how you gain insight into reality?

id love to see you source such material as has "thoroughly examined and found to not have any foundation" the existence of god... you only displaying that exact arrogance i speak of, you are so certain in a lack of god and that it has "no foundation in reality" but you have no actual reason for believing that, your belief in a lack of a god requires its own amount of faith.

and to the second part. no i do not believe psychedelics* is how you gain insight into reality, not at all. actually the screen name was just a lyric from a song i liked, but hey good work making an assumption and clinging to it with that same arrogance im speaking of here, great example you've made for me. also your comment is nothing but an attempt to attack my character, not my message, those sort of tactics are quite shamefull and unscientific, and even against ats T&C, your colors are showing.

Bring your evidence for the existance of god and i'll examine it. Then we'll discuss whether it is valid or not.

My certainty comes from the thousands of times that "proof" of god's existance has failed to be convincing. That and the complete lack of convincing "proof".

The concept of god comes from the same time period that the concept for other mythical beasts comes from.

All you have to do is prove your claims in a scientifically valid manner, and everyone will get behind you.

Claims that science cannot observe something that can comunicate with a physical mind will not be accepted without a solid reason for believing this to be true. Otherwise all claims are equally valid.

a reply to: Woodcarver

thats just it though, to say THERE IS A GOD, you need scientific proof to make it a scientific statement,
AND to say THERE IS NO GOD, you also need scientific proof to make it a scientific statement,
so at this point in human existence the only scientific statement that can be made about god is there may or may not be a god. or, it is unknown. hence agnostic.

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: saint4God
...which just lead to a lot of frustration by not being able to understand universally what was happening and why our part in it seemed absolutely pointless.

And you gave up and turned to god...

I was about to give up on believing that anything supernatural could possibly exist, but before I did, I threw out one final challenge: If anything that beyond the human realm to show itself to me, I would believe. God did not show up, but the devil most certainly did. "If you need to see to believe, here I am, now obey." I could not be rid of him and he pursued relentlessly. After much denial that any of this was real or that I needed help, that's when I gave asking God for help a try.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
You can't have for instance...

"My name is Bob, I have this feeling we can put at least 5 gallons of that chlorine into the water supply."
It just feels RIGHT to Bob.

Now Bob's a good guy, we barbecue with him on Sundays, but I wouldn't want him mixing my tap water, if you know what I mean.

I Steve the science dude, who knows toxicity levels, ppm, etc, etc...

Aside from that, religion and faith is helpful, IF you balance it with faith in yourself imo.

I can appreciate this. Being that I believe God gave us common sense in addition to a fair ability to distinguish moral right from wrong, it works for me too.

Sounds like they were trying to be edgy and create controversy, they didn't have a star rating system there, did they?

Probably edgy and controversy, but I think there's good in it for helping start our excellent dialogue here.

originally posted by: saint4God

I was about to give up on believing that anything supernatural could possibly exist, but before I did, I threw out one final challenge: If anything that beyond the human realm to show itself to me, I would believe. God did not show up, but the devil most certainly did. "If you need to see to believe, here I am, now obey." I could not be rid of him and he pursued relentlessly. After much denial that any of this was real or that I needed help, that's when I gave asking God for help a try.

this sounds like such an amazing story to read, would you mind posting it, how did the devil show was it an actual manifestation what did it look like how long did this go on for what sort of things occured etc etc etc, really you should make a thread about this, it would fascinate many.

i get that thered be alot of haters pestering you in such a thread but honestly every thread has that, you can make a thread about your grandma's apple tree and haters will bash you for blah blah blah whatever, just tune em out and post it for the non haters. dont let hate hold you back.

though if still youd rather not post such a story id still love to read it if it came to me by pm (U2U)

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Certainly not impossible. I'm sure we have all heard of dyslexic poets, claustrophobic closet organizers, and vegan butchers. But wouldn't you say there's an irony to be noted as well?

I guess this is where I'm having difficulty with the paradigm shift, I don't see a cognitive dissonance or irony. Which is why I was taking aback when it was first suggested there should be one.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
Two scientists are supposed to look at data and come to the same conclusion. That's why peer review is important.

True, and is part of the daily work as a biochemist as well.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
So how do you explain a Jewish biochemist, hindu astrophysicist and atheist engineer/programmer all looking at the data and coming to three distinctly different conclusions regarding the nature of our place in the cosmos and where those cosmos came from?

Although cosmological origins don't have an application in our regular work, I can speak a little to different data interpretation. Just because a machine spits out a number doesn't always indicate to the reader the full scope of what's going on. When this happens, we have a meeting to discuss. Sometimes everyone ends up agreeing on a course of action, but most of the time we end up just agreeing to trying one person's route first, then if that fails the next, and the next until the full picture is gained. Experiment, retest, meet again to discuss results, conclude. It can be dangerous (scientifically) to jump to one conclusion without all of the information, but the data can help give us ideas or direction to provide suggestions. In summary, we have to verify what's thought to be known, test the unknown, reproduce results and not make a universal conclusion unless all of us have been satisfied that the information is sufficient to do so. Science isn't faithless, sometimes it takes a hope, idea, hypothesis, and/or chance to wing something out there to make progress. Religion isn't blind, it can be tested, questioned, and verified with reproducible results. What's used for one can be applied to the other, especially 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "...but test them all; hold on to what is good..."

originally posted by: Astyanax
The poor old OP has been bamboozled.

Shhh...Ancient Aliens is coming on the History channel, gotta hear what that guy with the crazy hair has to say about the Pyraminds of Atlantis

Great username by the way, I recently picked the the Nintendo game with the same name.

ack, double post, can't remember how to delete. Will fix later, gotta go for now.

a reply to: saint4God

There is no God and the proof is simple: in math, the operation "∞ + 1" cannot be defined.

In simple words, it goes like this:

A Being that is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent cannot create anything because the very act of creation destroys the omniscient and omnipresent properties.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Really, it is your brain that creates your mind? Huh... what scientific studies have shown this again????

Jaden

a reply to: JBDTheBeast

Not so much a test of free will. an experience of individuality. When what we consider US was outside of creation and not partially contained within these vessels, we were a part of a conglomerate concsiousness. There would have been no good, no bad, no pleasure, no pain. Only perfection, or rather, perfect balance. By creating a physical reality with an upset balance and a gradual restoration of balance, it gives an opportunity to experience the self.

This potential reality explains the whole, total goodness, total omnipotence argument. We experience negativity because it's necessary to experience positivity.

Jaden

a reply to: saint4God

Religion isn't blind, it can be tested, questioned, and verified with reproducible results. What's used for one can be applied to the other, especially 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "...but test them all; hold on to what is good..."

And what are these tests exactly?

Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God

Thats because today. They deify science, and 'scientists' word has become the gospel.

And if you dare question it. You will be labeled a heretic, and burned at the stake.

Man created God.

Man created Science.

And absolutely TRUE.

They are not mutually exclusive.

originally posted by: neo96
Public Universities Don't Want Science Students To Believe In God

Thats because today. They deify science, and 'scientists' word has become the gospel.

And if you dare question it. You will be labeled a heretic, and burned at the stake.

Man created God.

Man created Science.

And absolutely TRUE.

They are not mutually exclusive.

You are labeled uninformed and left to live your life. Oh, the cruelty.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Thank you for wasting my time.

What would Jesus do?

This is disturbing for sure. There is more than enough proof of God out there and because of the types of things God does people should be educated on it. I wish I could influence reality more because I'd start with kindergarten students and teach/warn them about the existence of something here with us and the types of stuff it can and does do to us. I wish I had been warned as a child but I'm thankful that I found proof of it on my own.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: TzarChasm

Thank you for wasting my time.

What would Jesus do?

More importantly, what would thor do?

originally posted by: pryingopen3rdeye
a reply to: Woodcarver

thats just it though, to say THERE IS A GOD, you need scientific proof to make it a scientific statement,
AND to say THERE IS NO GOD, you also need scientific proof to make it a scientific statement,
so at this point in human existence the only scientific statement that can be made about god is there may or may not be a god. or, it is unknown. hence agnostic.

We should not leave a place holder for every claim. Do i need proof to say that there are no winged horses? 7 headed dragons, magical fairies, and unicorns? Santa? No, of course not. We know that those things are mythical creations because they were introduced to the literary world in a time which is known for myth writing. Plus when it says things in the books that are physically impossible, you should know that they are talking about myth and fantasy. This is the red flag. People don't come back to life, people don't heal the sick with prayer, donkeys don't talk, and all of the other impossible BS that these books are filled with. Contradictions. Because they were writing fantasy, not history.

The lack of those things, and the fact that they are physically impossible creatures, is enough to drop the gavel and decide that we do not believe in those things!!

How can you prove something doesn't exist? You can't. That is why we do not wait for proof that things don't exist, before we toss them out. We accept that things exist when we find them, otherwise, we would go around believing everything exists.

That is not how we decide what exists or not. You are asking me to believe all claims until they are falsified. Asking me to prove god doesn't exist is a logical fallacy. There is no possible evidence that could prove that that anything DOESN'T exist.

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: moebius

originally posted by: saint4God
...which just lead to a lot of frustration by not being able to understand universally what was happening and why our part in it seemed absolutely pointless.

And you gave up and turned to god...

I was about to give up on believing that anything supernatural could possibly exist, but before I did, I threw out one final challenge: If anything that beyond the human realm to show itself to me, I would believe. God did not show up, but the devil most certainly did. "If you need to see to believe, here I am, now obey." I could not be rid of him and he pursued relentlessly. After much denial that any of this was real or that I needed help, that's when I gave asking God for help a try.

Now you think you talked to the devil? What was yaweh and the devil doing for the 100,000 years when people believed in the 1,000's of other gods? You know, before judaism.