NATO provoked Russia

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Azureblue

Why is it that Americans doubt their own capacity to live in peace with other countries?

You mean like Russia is doing with the countries around them...that kind of peace?

So your OK with the US wanting to take over Europe but its not OK for Russia to prevent Nato (US) placing nuks rights on Russias door step. With that kind of thinking one could hardly have any sympathy for the US if it backfired. Placing nuks in Romania and Poland only places those countries in the cross hairs of Russia if it has to defend it self. Then again I cant imagine the US having any concern for Poland or Romania, they are simply there to be used for bait.

a reply to: Azureblue

You do knw those missile sites aren't nuclear weapons correct?

They aren't even able to defend against Russian missiles, but I guess instead of doing any research it is just better to cry about it.

You should know Russia has known about them since at least 2013, and has refused to discuss the reason they are there because actually knowing the truth hurts there "The west is trying to get us" propaganda they spew on their kremlin controlled media.

You do understand that Poland and Romainia are asking for better protection from rogue states such as NK, and certain countries in the ME that are wanting to become nuclear nations. Again research would do you some good.

And lastly they are not nuclear weapons being placed in Poland or Romainia...if your going to make silly comments at least get it right before distorting the truth.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You do understand that Poland and Romainia are asking for better protection from rogue states such as NK, and certain countries in the ME that are wanting to become nuclear nations. Again research would do you some good.

Am I being delusional, or did you seriously just said that countries like Poland and Romania need protection against North Korea, Iran and such countries? Why would anyone want to target those nations at times like this? This is by far the most un-realistic thing you have ever said.

Why do people have problem with being objective?

It is beyond clear that this "anti"-missile shield is turned against Russia. I cannot believe some people are trying to deny it.

And then you have the nerves to label someone else's comment as being silly, when you are making such ridiculous claims. And dear God, you sound so confident about it.

As a rational guy i would rather be against US army on Our soil. The thing is, a lot of people in Poland understand hate to Russians etc. but most of them know that now we have no chance to fight it. People here know that Putin would never attack Poland, but US & Polish media trying to make a 'villian' face of Putin. Poland fights in so much wars and was occupied by years that i think we refuse to involve in another war. It is very sad that Poland will be battlefield for third time, third time in not its bussines, third time US,Russia and Germany keep their hands on the buttons.



ps: We need shield to protect against ME states? We need our economy growth, we need specialist, we need technology. WE DONT NEED SHIELDS

a reply to: Nikola014

The SM-3 used in the Aegis Ashore system will only work against theater class and medium range weapons. They're five years from attempting to hit ICBMs, unless they're in the boost phase.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The first time they announced they will be setting up a anti-missile shield in Poland and Romania a couple of years back, as an excuse they said it will serve as protection against North Korean and Iran missiles. It was pretty clear that it's pure BS, because why would any of those country fire their missiles in that pathway?

Do you honestly, as one of the most well informed military guy on ATS, believe that this anti-missile shield is not pointed against Russia?

As I've said countless times already, it's pretty obvious. The US and NATO just wish to have a upper hand against Russia in a case of potential conflict.

a reply to: Nikola014

Right now, it will protect against any cruise missile or short/medium range missile attack, regardless of so launches it. As for ICBMs, no matter who makes the claim, there is no good defense against one. In the sense that it will protect against an, extremely unlikely, Russian cruise missile attack, then yes, it is. Against a full up, serious Russian missile attack, there's no stopping that.

For those of you who have a problem with the missile defense system in Romania, and Poland please tell me why this is okay on the borders of NATO countries...

From 2013...

Moscow confirms deployment of Iskander missiles on NATO borders

“Rocket and artillery units of the Western Military District are really armed with Iskander tactical missile systems,” Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, head of the Defense Ministry’s press service, told reporters on Monday.

www.rt.com...

Iskander missiles are capable of carrying nuclear warheads as well as conventional warheads...something that the missiles in Romania, and soon to be in Poland cannot do nor are they being used as offensive weapons, but somehow it's NATO that get's lambasted...Amazing.

a reply to: Nikola014

Am I being delusional, or did you seriously just said that countries like Poland and Romania need protection against North Korea, Iran and such countries?

Imagine that...

The first time they announced they will be setting up a anti-missile shield in Poland and Romania a couple of years back, as an excuse they said it will serve as protection against North Korean and Iran missiles.

Apparently you already knew that judging by the comment of yours above...truly amazing.

a reply to: residentofearth

People here know that Putin would never attack Poland, but US & Polish media trying to make a 'villian' face of Putin.

And they probably thought the same about Hitler, and we know how that ended up.

Ukraine thought the same thing about Putin, and I guess we know how that turned out.

Putin doing what he is doing is what is making the villian face out of him...not Poland, or the US.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes and if the Russians don't kick up a fuss about it then they stand likely to be politically taken over by the USA through back door means. Educate em in the good old USA unis, send em back to the proposed states for political colonisation and place them in positions whereby they take power and steer their native country towards Washington, then do a few IMFs and treaties and NATO buddyisms and ............................Howzat......................... You are in the USA domain

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: residentofearth

People here know that Putin would never attack Poland, but US & Polish media trying to make a 'villian' face of Putin.

And they probably thought the same about Hitler, and we know how that ended up.

Ukraine thought the same thing about Putin, and I guess we know how that turned out.

Putin doing what he is doing is what is making the villian face out of him...not Poland, or the US.

In western media he is describe as a villian and in Russia he is called a national hero, so it's depends where you are sitting always.

I am aware of Iskander in Kaliningrad Oblast, aware of agenst inside polish forces left here by soviets in 1993 when they officialy withdraw their troops. Polish counter-interligence is in a deep hole and few years after sovieets and US. We were occupied and our will was crushed down. We don't want war, Putin knows that polish people wont go for a open war with Russia. So it is the US problem that they send here thousands of troops. I am more mad because of US policy rather than Russia, so why nobody ask polish people what do they really want? Who they fear? Elites here makes a very comfortable situtation with nobody to respond the consequences. Back to military, we should make our own forces, improve them and teach, we dont need "Our Boyys" here. Russia and US, even if we think they do not, they are friends. This is just another step in polarizing and spliting society which is veeery splited in Poland since Smolensk Tragedy. All this # is working for elites...


Why when we are fighting, they met each other in golden palace and talk about peace?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

For those of you who have a problem with the missile defense system in Romania, and Poland please tell me why this is okay on the borders of NATO countries...

I don't think anyone here has a problem with that. We just have problem with being lied to and considered to be fools. All this time, you've been desperately trying to prove how this anti missile shield is not turned against Russia.

Good thing you finally admitted it.

Apparently you already knew that judging by the comment of yours above...truly amazing.

Of course I knew, because I have this thing called logic and brain and can think for myself instead of just taking for granted everything that I am being told.

You should try it sometimes, it does wonders.

Ukraine thought the same thing about Putin, and I guess we know how that turned out.

Can you stop spreading your propaganda for a second, and not turn every single thread that has Russia in it, about this conflict? It's really boring.

Putin doing what he is doing is what is making the villian face out of him...not Poland, or the US.

You should seriously travel outside of US, and get familiar with what ordinary people in Europe think of Putin. You would be surprised.

a reply to: residentofearth

In western media he is describe as a villian and in Russia he is called a national hero,

Of course he is, because when you control what the people see in their government controlled media that happens..

Ever wonder why you don't see the media go against anything the President says...and those who do get an all expense paid trip to one of Russia's finest resorts in Siberia, or death.

We don't want war,

Who does?

Putin knows that polish people wont go for a open war with Russia.

If Ukraine showed us anything it's that Russia can cause chaos without having an open war. Also NATO is another reason why he wouldn't resort to an open war against a NATO member.

So it is the US problem that they send here thousands of troops.

Actually it isn't since your own government asked for more...

Poland’s defense minister is calling for a larger US and NATO military presence in his country to deter the type of Russian aggression occurring in eastern Ukraine. Tomasz Siemoniak is scheduled to meet with US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel on Thursday to discuss ways the US military could partner more with Poland at a time when Russia flexes its military muscles on the Crimean Peninsula and near Ukraine.

“In the longer-term perspective, what we would like to see very much in Poland is the development of NATO and American infrastructure and an increasing military presence of both the US and NATO in our country,” Siemoniak told Defense News in an exclusive interview on Wednesday.

www.defensenews.com...

And that was in 2014.

SO you can't blame the US for sending troops to an ally that request them.

I am more mad because of US policy rather than Russia, so why nobody ask polish people what do they really want?

You should be mad at your government not the US as we are only fulfilling a request by your government...the US policy is not to blame here.

Who they fear?

Again not the US problem as that is something you should be asking your government.

Back to military, we should make our own forces, improve them and teach, we dont need "Our Boyys" here.

You can nobody is stopping you, but remember the US is one of the best military's on the planet, so getting training with them is how you make your armed forces better.

Russia and US, even if we think they do not, they are friends.

Ukraine is the biggest reason the tension between the two countries are the way they are, but they aren't as friendly as they were before Ukraine happened.

a reply to: Nikola014

Of course I knew, because I have this thing called logic and brain and can think for myself instead of just taking for granted everything that I am being told.

I bet you do.

Can you stop spreading your propaganda for a second, and not turn every single thread that has Russia in it, about this conflict? It's really boring.

I forgot you hate when the truth about Putin is discussed, as for why I use the Ukraine situation...it shows what the real Putin is like, and the neighbors fear being the next Ukraine.

Propaganda you say...prove what I said is wrong, please I want you to try and show how that is propaganda?

You should seriously travel outside of US, and get familiar with what ordinary people in Europe think of Putin. You would be surprised.

And you know what I do and don't do...because I don't believe you do?

As for who I have talked to...you know what happens when you assume something?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

My goverment is also a part of a plan, part of a circus. I dont believe them anyway, its BS how it looks here. It's just only about escalating tensions, spliting society and forcing bad energy. I am not afraid of Russia at all. They can only turn off the gas pipe, that's it.

Your opinion is close to mine. I am sure that such provocations will not good for all world and all countries. I am sure that people should think before do and we haven't another planet to live in case if The Word War Third will start...

We are constantly provoking Russia. We did it throughout the "cold war," and we are doing it now. the MSM tries to convince brain-dead americans that Russia is the aggressor, but the truth is, of course, the opposite.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: nwtrucker

Sounds like something Mark Twain would say.

Thank you.....

I guess I was right then?

originally posted by: MrSpad
Mostly we just ignore history, like this exercise has been going on since 2006. And the fact that the Russia used to join NATO exercises including one in the US itself. Or that Russia had no problem with NATO expansion as it was a NATO PfP member, had the Russian NATO council and was let into the G7. And that the main reason Russia did not join NATO was that it wanted to more power in the alliance instead of how it has always been every nation with one vote. Russia wanted more what it had in the Warsaw Pact, the biggest power also had all the political power. Russia own actions have lead to every thing it complains about now and it expects people to just forget the role it played in NATO expansion almost becoming a part of it.

OMG history! Come on you are spoiling the party now.

Totally agree and I just wish some people (the ones who complain when their pet theory is debunked) would research, read and understand. It would save such a lot of hassle. There is enough unknowns in the world worthy of discussion here on ATS without having to debunk the bleedin obvious with one Google search!