Beyond Conspiracy: Entire generation growing up on this ultra diabolical "FREEMIUM GAME MODEL"

originally posted by: wdkirk
Freemium games harm the consumer? how? Personally targeted marketing to get your money?

If this style of marketing for freemium games makes you uncomfortable, tough. Quit. Get out or don't play at all. There is no such thing as a free lunch or a free game. Buy games with a one time cost, or else game makers will continue to focus on all marketing tactics to get your money.

I don't play those types of games. Never have, never will. The reason I won't play them is because they're predatory. I have no problem with these companies making money, incase you missed it I'm a game developer. But when their business model is based on predatory practices, I take issue with that. There are many other ways to charge for their product, they don't bring in as much revenue though which means that everyone who wants to compete in the arena of mobile games has to go towards this model right now. Long term, it's a very bad idea for these companies because eventually there are going to be some major lawsuits going on over these practices.

Then again, I probably shouldn't expect much in this discussion from someone who advocates preying on the weak and the sick in their signature.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: wdkirk
If this style of marketing for freemium games makes you uncomfortable, tough. Quit. Get out or don't play at all. There is no such thing as a free lunch or a free game. Buy games with a one time cost, or else game makers will continue to focus on all marketing tactics to get your money.

I'm no longer a gamer, despite being a bonafide expert on gaming tech / industry.

And the discussion here is framed around what this is all going to do to an entire generation growing up where these are effectively the only games in their phones.

...like an entire generations already that doesn't know what it was like to NOT have the internet? Generations now that don't have find information from Encyclopedias or at the public Library?

originally posted by: wdkirk
Is the root problem the cell phone company, the game company or the parent(s) who allow their children to do this? Who has control of who?

The game company is choosing to do what they're doing for their business, it's their fault.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well that's a big part of the point here: Unless one actually goes and plays these games, they aren't going to inherently realize it. To fully comprehend what one of these games are, one might have to play pretty far into it.

This precedent where parents all of the sudden have to preplay all the games... well jeez kids can go and download anything in instants. So a parent played one game, saw what it is and instruct them not to play that anymore. Now the parent is to assume 'every' other game the kid is going to find is going to be the same? And we should expect this for every single situation out there, otherwise they are all bad parents?

It's the fault of the predatory developers, and Google/Apple for pushing them, right out the gates that is. Eventually parents should catch on, but damn are they all bad parents if they happen to not have a mind for this kind of scheming? And what aboot when the parents are just as gullible?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: wdkirk
Freemium games harm the consumer? how? Personally targeted marketing to get your money?

If this style of marketing for freemium games makes you uncomfortable, tough. Quit. Get out or don't play at all. There is no such thing as a free lunch or a free game. Buy games with a one time cost, or else game makers will continue to focus on all marketing tactics to get your money.

I don't play those types of games. Never have, never will. The reason I won't play them is because they're predatory. I have no problem with these companies making money, incase you missed it I'm a game developer. But when their business model is based on predatory practices, I take issue with that. There are many other ways to charge for their product, they don't bring in as much revenue though which means that everyone who wants to compete in the arena of mobile games has to go towards this model right now. Long term, it's a very bad idea for these companies because eventually there are going to be some major lawsuits going on over these practices.

You mean like the Call in Party lines from the 80's and 90's that targeted lonley people who racked up enormous phone bills?

Buried in my OP I referred to the games as being the "1-900-CRACK-PIPE" Game Model.



Now here's my kind of 'Augmented Reality' 'video game':
Miss Cleo Soundboard


.

The good and the bad.

www.digitaltrends.com...#:tExgRZPvqanWYA

thenextweb.com...

www.businessinsider.com...

www.psychguides.com...

The last one is my favorite.

originally posted by: wdkirk
You mean like the Call in Party lines from the 80's and 90's that targeted lonley people who racked up enormous phone bills?

I don't look upon those very favorably either, but they're not as bad as what mobile games are doing right now.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: wdkirk
You mean like the Call in Party lines from the 80's and 90's that targeted lonley people who racked up enormous phone bills?

I don't look upon those very favorably either, but they're not as bad as what mobile games are doing right now.

My argument against all of this is that now, with all things at our finger tips, mobile games are not the only ones targeting you. You can lump all things "online" that are being marketed to consumers this way. Mobile games are the front runner, however, they are not the only ones. It is all psychological. You and your children (by your intervention and governance) need to do the research and see how this is all being laid out so that once you know what the gaming companies are doing to target you and them, you can intercede to stop it. Knowledge of what they do let's you make the decisions to govern you actions concerning it all. (the you's used above are not specific to just you). If you choose not to see what is going on, you deserve what you get or you enjoy what you are paying for and at that point there is no argument to be had.
You will not bring the companies to task on changing their tactics.....if that were true....cigarette companies would be bankrupt.

here's the solution.....GET THE "F" OFF YOUR PHONES, and go do something real, with real people, at real events.....WITHOUT THE PHONE!!.......boredom is not a disease, it is an opportunity to think, ponder, consider, and for your brain to take a break from constant stimulation. you will not be missing out on life, because you'll be living it in "real" reality.

originally posted by: wdkirk
www.psychguides.com...

The last one is my favorite.

Great visual aids in that one!
They also mention that South Park episode.

Here it is:

Learning Theory of Addiction

According to learning theory, addiction is simply a learned behavior. In other words, people learn to engage in addictive behavior according to well-established learning principles.
...
People may learn addictive behavior through classical conditioning by pairing the pleasure of addictive substances or activities, with environmental cues.
...
Operant conditioning is a second type of learning. A system of rewards and punishments forms the basis for this learning. If the first use of a substance is a rewarding experience, we are more likely to return to it. Likewise, without unpleasant consequences to addiction, there is little reason to stop.
www.amhc.org...

Add a "clans" feature:
Social Learning Theory and Addiction

Classical conditioning and operant conditioning describe how we learn from direct experience. This is called social learning. Social learning is the most common way that people learn.
...
People have a powerful need for social interaction. Therefore, it becomes important to consider the compelling social nature of many addictions. Many types of addiction require at least the cooperation of other people. Some types of addictions afford opportunities for pleasing social discourse and interaction as well. For example, heroin addicts often help one another obtain and use the drug. Alcohol is a frequent and often central feature of many social venues. Gambling casinos strive to provide an exciting social atmosphere.

As addiction progresses, there are fewer opportunities for the addicted person to interact with healthy, non-addicted persons. This is because friends and family eventually disengage from the addict. Simultaneously, the addiction occupies more and more of the addict's time. Gradually, the addict's entire social circle becomes other people who are associated with the addiction.
www.centersite.net...

So there we have it: Being able to learn addiction, that is being able to 'learn' addictive 'disorders' is well known established.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Negative!

EA's hijacking of Westwood,the inventors of the CNC franchise, EA obliterated the gameplay of Yuri's Revenge... while deliberately demolishing the online multiplayer scene of YR in pursuit of forcing everyone to have to buy THEIR new "Generals" version.

With all due respect, I think you cut your nose off to spite your face. Westwood sold the franchise... The EA versions were just as good, if not better.

I never got into paying for these freemium games. Give me 30 mins of Ms. Pac Man and I'm good.

originally posted by: jellyrev
freemium for mobile games

DlCium for platform games- seems most games nowadays are released unfinished as the time it takes to make a game now is a lot. Takes a year or two of DLC's for a lot games to reach maturity.

Freemium is not aimed at conventional gamers, it is aimed at the general population who generally does not get enough reward from conventional games.

I worked for a OC development studio for a while. They will have up to 20 programmers and 100+ artists, modellers, texture artists, animators, all to create content like buildings and characters.

So it really becomes a pay-per-level model.

my boys play freemium games. I use them as an opportunity to teach them to not hunt for instant gratification, but to patiently plan and build up for the long term to get what they want. I don't pay any cash for them, and explained them why i don't. They seem to get it

wait til they tie in vr

originally posted by: lavatrance
wait til they tie in vr

It needs to improve, I've made a couple simple VR games to play with a Vive, like doing some juggling in VR or playing Solitaire. It's slow and clunky. The Hololens is much more impressive, and honestly is much cooler than VR because you can have AR interact with the real world to an extent. VR requires an open space so you don't go running into walls or tripping over crap.

originally posted by: jaws1975
A couple of years ago my son who was around 7 at the time was playing one of these freemium games, every now and again we would let him spend his allowance money on upgrades in this game. That is until we got a $600 bill! Apparently the geniuses at iTunes have a default setting when you initially buy the upgrade and enter your password to verify the purchase there is a 30 minute window where you can continue to buy all the upgrades you want without having to reenter the password. So my son being the schemer he is found that loophole and went crazy. My wife had no idea this was possible and thought somebody had hacked the account, so she called apple and they did reverse the charges and told her how to change the settings so that you have to enter the password every time.

My question at the time was how in the world would itunes or the game allow that much money to be spent on a kids game?

People have gone abroad and streamed a movie to watch on their tablet or smartphone. That had ended up costing them thousands of dollars on roaming fees alone.

I've been hit for a few hundred shekels myself when my smartphone got an update and disabled WiFi.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

This sounds to me like the rant of someone who wants to win for free.

Here's another angle.
You claim to be an old school die hard gamer. Well, old school die hard gamers spent $20-50 bucks (sometimes more) on individual games in one shot. Sometimes people would buy a game a month, or a few games. It isn't unrealistic to say that most gamers bought 5-6 games per year, minimum. I personally would buy a game a month. Call it $500 a year, easily. More once you add on accessories, add-on packs, sequals, xpacks, etc.

Now you can play games like Clash of Clans - which some people, myself included, actually enjoy - for free, and if you want you can buy stuff to get ahead. Personally, freemium games have saved me money. I love that I can pick up and play casually or for a lengthy period, and still have fun. I've bought a few packs of gems from Supercell - maybe spent $200 over the course of a couple years. Compared to my old gaming purchases? I've saved a ton.

Actually, I bought a couple Xbox One games - full games - and spent $60+ for both. Imagine if I bought more.

So to sum up, it isn't some conspiracy or scam. The gaming market has evolved. A good quality freemium game can be just as fun without spending a penny. Yes, it can be addictive, but parents should monitor their kids purchases and be responsible for them and teach them. My kid has his own phone and the ability to charge in-game purchases right to our phone bill. He always asks, and has never broken my trust. AND he pays me for the amount equal he charged. Cut the "its addictive to kids" crap. Parents should step up.

The fact that some people lack self-control or parenting skills doesn't make the game devs evil. Get over it. To me you sound like another one of those "let me win for free" special snowflakes that always has to win and wants to win now.