Why Mainstream Science is a Religion

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: BO XIAN

Let's be honest here and admit that the real reason for your dissatisfaction is that those who have studied science are always there to inform you when you are wrong, particularly when you want to share your errors on a public forum. It's not our fault that you so consistently fail to fact check yourselves. On the bright side, we can help you with that.

Wtf? What errors are you even talking about? His main claim is that theories shouldn't be touted as fact - if you think such a statement is an "error", then you are continuing to prove the point of the OP and an obvious member of ROS.

Theories are based in fact. And the main claim was that science is a religion. Behind those theories is a long list of evidence from repeatable experiments that you are more than welcome to try to debunk.

All human institutions share similarities with all other human institutions. To further explore the silliness of the OP, we could begin discussing how professional sports is like a religion, and anytime someone mentioned how the two were DIFFERENT, we could simply scream "Wet birds fly at night!"

In the specific case of science and religion, it is the differences that matter, as it is indeed the differences that define them.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: BO XIAN

Let's be honest here and admit that the real reason for your dissatisfaction is that those who have studied science are always there to inform you when you are wrong, particularly when you want to share your errors on a public forum. It's not our fault that you so consistently fail to fact check yourselves. On the bright side, we can help you with that.

Wtf? What errors are you even talking about? His main claim is that theories shouldn't be touted as fact - if you think such a statement is an "error", then you are continuing to prove the point of the OP and an obvious member of ROS.

Technically, the only people who treat theories as facts (or who think such treatment is even possible) are people who don't understand the terms to begin with. These would not be scientists.

I do see a lot of people on the internet who don't understand the terminology, however.

For the record, any extremely well supported theory will tend to be treated as an accurate reflection of reality until it is falsified. As it should be.

Why Mainstream Science is a Religion

No.

On the other hand, fringe and pseudo just could be.

a reply to: cooperton

It's a real encouragement that so many on this thread 'get it' in spite of the Religious Fervor of the contrarians on the thread.

THANKS!

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: chr0naut

No, you haven't provided any such examples, only details you personally find puzzling. But your confusion is not a matter of scientific inquiry. You can put your bait back in the tackle box.

In each case, previous 'scientific' ideas have proven incorrect - they are refuted by the data.

In each case, science also has not established revised or new theory, that accords with the data and scientific method.

I can't really put it any clearer or simpler than that.

... and of course, I find them all personally puzzling. If I stumbled across an adequate solution for any of them, before anyone else, I'd publish. Why wouldn't one?

a reply to: Greggers

Actually, professional sports are like a religion . . . A lot of Christian men get more Religious Fervor going at a stadium or watching on TV than they do at church or in prayer.

It IS a human phenomenon that I felt and still strongly feel is worth discussing and challenging folks to wake-up and pay attention to what they are focusing on with so much Religious Fervor.

Choices have consequences in spite of so many ROS and materialists' denial that there even is a right and a wrong about much of anything.

Science might be the best but still, there is psychiatry which is considered to be scientific, however if you get a diagnosis, you have no scientific way of disproving that theory while everyone consideres it to be fact and reason to take away freedoms like revoking one's driving license, ending up in a warden of forcefed possibly dangerous drugs.

All because of prejudice about mentally ill people which might be a danger to themselves or others which may or may not happen, coupled with the pseudo science of the fearmongering mental health care system which justifies it all. Meanwhile people still believe psychiatry is scientific and like any health care system, even though it is more about the safety of non-mentally ill people not the welfare of the "patient". They should be presented as a branch of the prison system and only take people of whom it is proven they have done something against the law, but in this case the majority goes along even if the good have to suffer because of the bad and innocent peoples lives gets destroyed, besides the fact they all have to pay for it through their taxes and those people might become productive members of society after they went through a difficult period in life.

Sure there are dangerous people that can only be contained but I don't think psychiatry is the solution. Yes it's based on observations, but so is demonology. Yes it's taught at universities just like scientific subjects but then there is also theology, both should have gone decades ago from the educational system. They belong in churches or pharmaceutical companies and should be considered personal choices to believe in or not.

a reply to: Phage

I wish it were as much of a fringe phenomenon as you appear to think it is, Phage.

I don't often think you are this wrong, Phage. This is one case where I think your observations and thoughts on the topic are not as well thought-out and extensive as they usually appear to be.

I wonder if there are any solid measurements and stats on it. Maybe I should check that out. I doubt there's any solid research on it because the ROS is not about to allow funding of such research.

My wild-haired guesstimate . . . Hmmmm . . . hard to even guess . . . I'd say every main professional journal demonstrates it in at least one article per issue . . . and many demonstrate it in most articles in most issues.

Every scientific discipline at all and certainly all major universities demonstrates it week in and week out--if not daily--in their ongoing censorship of anything outside that discipline's dogma--regardless of how supported by newly discovered facts. Every such department demonstrates it in their tenure and in their hiring and firing decisions rather routinely--with, I'd guess, very rare exceptions.

Every scientific discipline that receives government grants demonstrates it routinely in that anyone that dares to espouse anything outside of the approved dogma--particularly in certain hyper-sensitive directions and areas--will not get any grants.

That's just the facts from even the Main Stream Media's stories. I suspect that if a fair-minded, diligent and thorough investigation were done, the incidents would total 55-90% of all choice, influence incidents. Some universities and colleges would be worse than others. All would be frightfully demonstrative of the ROS.

I wish it weren't true, Phage. If I didn't think it was a huge & serious problem, I wouldn't have bothered with the OP.

I think folks of my values orientation have been the canaries in the coal mines on this issue. The other values orientations so in sympathy with the ROS just simply don't, won't or cannot see it.

Phage, I generally and mostly trust your integrity enough that . . . I'd find it very interesting if you selected 10 professional journals at random . . . and read the whole issue with as critical an eye as you could regarding any evidence of an ROS mentality whatsoever . . . rate/rank the degree of such a Religious Fervor . . . and report back your findings.

a reply to: chr0naut

As you well know . . .

The problem is NOT a lack of clarity.

The problem is the RELIGIOUS FERVOR of the ROS acolytes & high priests who canNOT TOLERATE having their remaining RELIGIOUS constructions on reality even seriously questioned, much less accurately labeled.

Your clarity has been excellent.

So much so, I'd have no trouble trusting you with my life because you obviously handle truth very carefully.

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
Science might be the best but still, there is psychiatry which is considered to be scientific, however if you get a diagnosis, you have no scientific way of disproving that theory while everyone consideres it to be fact and reason to take away freedoms like revoking one's driving license, ending up in a warden of forcefed possibly dangerous drugs.

All because of prejudice about mentally ill people which might be a danger to themselves or others which may or may not happen, coupled with the pseudo science of the fearmongering mental health care system which justifies it all. Meanwhile people still believe psychiatry is scientific and like any health care system, even though it is more about the safety of non-mentally ill people not the welfare of the "patient". They should be presented as a branch of the prison system and only take people of whom it is proven they have done something against the law, but in this case the majority goes along even if the good have to suffer because of the bad and innocent peoples lives gets destroyed, besides the fact they all have to pay for it through their taxes and those people might become productive members of society after they went through a difficult period in life.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED And that's a topic I know a fair amount about, from working in that arena for 30+ years.

Then we get into the oligarchy's eagerness to deny gun ownership to anyone that's EVER been labeled as "depressed" regardless of how serious or accurate the label was. And all that is considered "SCIENTIFICALLY VALID, EVEN NECESSARY!"

Sure there are dangerous people that can only be contained but I don't think psychiatry is the solution.

Have spent a fair amount of thought on this issue. I agree with you. I don't know what a better solution would be given all the givens. Perhaps, for one, there should be a panel of folks--including family and laymen as well as professionals--deciding--rating--how important it is to restrict a patient's freedoms--including freedom to deny, to not receive certain drugs. I'm aghast that Electro-shock can be administered against a patient's will. That's criminal, hideous and merely a brazen demonstration of the power of the ROS.

Yes it's based on observations, but so is demonology. Yes it's taught at universities just like scientific subjects but then there is also theology, both should have gone decades ago from the educational system. They belong in churches or pharmaceutical companies and should be considered personal choices to believe in or not.

I don't think they should have been totally removed from the education system. I do believe that 'truth in advertising' should have been required long ago on such scores. I'm not sure that limiting the med stuff to pharmaceutical companies would be progress! LOL.

Science is to some degree a scam. Ie: Gravity. Do u even realize it's just a theory. It's never been proven to exist.

a reply to: lavatrance

Jump out of your window and let us know if you find any proof.

a reply to: GetHyped

What a fine way of displaying yet again the myopic ROS perspective.

Evidently you are unaware of all the discussions about what exactly is that which has been labeled "gravity."

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: GetHyped

What a fine way of displaying yet again the myopic ROS perspective.

Evidently you are unaware of all the discussions about what exactly is that which has been labeled "gravity."

Chitty chitty chat chat, chit chat. You are jealous, we get it. You want to grandstand a bit and earn some points for your team, we get it. But all of your baiting and provoking and condescending and calling out doesn't matter in the least because you are doing it on a conspiracy forum behind the shield of anonymity. Ergo, the rest of the world doesn't care. In fact, if I close this tab and walk away right now, it's almost like this conversation stops existing at all... but science will still be all around me. Science will continue to work (thanks to diligent practicitioners) and you will continue to whine.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Actually, I can't recall in 69+ years

EVER

being jealous over someone else's stinking pile of poo.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Greggers

Actually, professional sports are like a religion . . . A lot of Christian men get more Religious Fervor going at a stadium or watching on TV than they do at church or in prayer.

Excellent! We agree! This is why professional sports are like a religion!

But I hope no one mentions the myriad ways in which they are different, or else I'll cry "Wet birds fly at night!"

It's what I do.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: GetHyped

What a fine way of displaying yet again the myopic ROS perspective.

Evidently you are unaware of all the discussions about what exactly is that which has been labeled "gravity."

Lavatrance said it had never been proven to exist. That's flat out wrong.

The underlying mechanisms of gravity are frequently debated, as are most things in science, with the weight of the evidence allowed to carry the argument. Gravity is currently thought to be caused by the bending of spacetime (which has in fact been OBSERVED), but there may in fact be an underlying quantum theory of gravity, and gravity may end up being an emergent property of quantum mechanics.

However, it absolutely DOES exist, regardless of the ultimate mechanism. And even if a quantum theory of gravity is discovered, it's not like the phenomenon currently observed in the bending of spacetime will cease to exist.

P.S.

By the way, I think lavatrance was being sarcastic.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

Far be it for me to point out the destructive follies of science there are some science specific lives that it is solely responsible for thought it's application of science that number in the hundreds of thousands if not hundreds of millions.
Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Fukushima, 3 mile Island, Chernobyl, the people of the bikini atol ,all the lives destroyed by; bombs, tanks, guns, UAVs, rockets, missiles, cancer research, small pox vaccines research, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nerve agents, weaponized diseases, creation of vector and deliver devices, serin glass, and the list co times.

Despite you attempt at demonizing religion for all the Ills in the world without science none of those atrocities could be possible In the scale at which they were accomplished.

My 2 cents

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: TzarChasm

Actually, I can't recall in 69+ years

EVER

being jealous over someone else's stinking pile of poo.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.