If Britain leaves the EU, an asteroid will strike London and their toilets will be confiscated.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978


Yes there is a risk to our economy by leaving, but there is also a risk by staying. The Euro is struggling because of the combined debt of countries that invested with banks throughout Europe that collapsed or were Nationalised. Remember, Iceland, although held in high regards by some; by electing not to pay their debts, have contributed to the misery. Although, not exclusively.

We're not in the Eurozone. We're not in the European Central Bank. We are at the same risk of economic fallout whether we are in or out.

There is a lot of noise on both sides of the debate but reading this, and other threads, only highlights why the Brexit campaign has circled its wagons around immigration. They are on the back foot in every other area.

Some examples:

Someone was on the news a few weeks back saying Europe controls our interest rates. Nonsense. They are set by the Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England, our own unelected bureaucrats, without reference to Westminster, let alone Brussels.

Ditto the other talking head who said the EU made us put VAT on fuel. Nonsense. Every EU nation has its own VAT rates on different things. We've even got a zero rate in the UK for things like books and magazines. It's still VAT but 0%.

A friend of mine's sister is a senior UKIP activists. She told me a while back the EU was stopping us from trading with China. She didn't know about the nod and a wink deal done between us and the Chinese to build Hinkley point.

And I did I hear Michael Gove tonight saying the EU made us privatise everything? (no, that's a serious question, I was driving and I thought I heard it but couldn't swear to it) That would be why the French state owned SNCF owns a chunk of our train operators and largely state owned Electricite de France trades in the UK as EDF then.

Pressure on public services. Funny how the French and Germans aren't feeling it in the same way. Then again, their economies are still larger than ours - in absolute and per capita terms - and they believe in funding public services properly. Our government wants to sell it bit by bit to its pals in the City...and if we leave the EU, their job will be a lot easier.

And let's not even go near the GCSE level understanding of economics that shows what markets do when faced with uncertainity.

So, wisely, the mainstream Brexit campaign has largely conceded the economic, constitutional and legal parts of the field. The immigration argument is still more emotion than reason, and just as easily unpicked, but people have a greater emotional investment in it.

It's their last fighting chance in the last three weeks.

a reply to: ketsuko

"European nations got angry because the United Kingdom no longer wanted be part of their economic union, so they demanded that the UK hand over all the public urinals."

And so Britons loaded all the urinals onto aircraft and dropped them on Brussels.

"Best to stay in the EU," said Governor Mark Carney. "We failed to predict the 2007/8 crash, the greatest economic downturn in modern history. But we have a great track record when it comes to wind and piss. Trust us."

Well that's a load of horse crap.

What did they expect with the artificial manipulation of the markets that over inflated equites created a bubble.

Economics people is cyclical. Bubble.Bust.Bubble. Bust.

2008/9 was simply a market correction to over valued 'goods'.

Anyone with half a brain seen it coming.

originally posted by: neo96

"Best to stay in the EU," said Governor Mark Carney. "We failed to predict the 2007/8 crash, the greatest economic downturn in modern history. But we have a great track record when it comes to wind and piss. Trust us."

Well that's a load of horse crap.

What did they expect with the artificial manipulation of the markets that over inflated equites created a bubble.

Economics people is cyclical. Bubble.Bust.Bubble. Bust.

2008/9 was simply a market correction to over valued 'goods'.

Anyone with half a brain seen it coming.

The article is satire, you really can't see that? It's an attack on anyone who doesn't believe in leaving the EU, or who presents an argument for staying in.

Sheesh, you ever heard of the onion?

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Haven't you, in effect, highlighted why England DOESNT'T need the EU? It controls its own currency, makes it's own monetary and fiscal policy, etc. Uncertainty in the market will only last a week, or at least until something the next terrorist attack or Kardashian selfie hits the news. I am sure that current contracts with British and EU companies will continue to be filled on schedule.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: neo96

"Best to stay in the EU," said Governor Mark Carney. "We failed to predict the 2007/8 crash, the greatest economic downturn in modern history. But we have a great track record when it comes to wind and piss. Trust us."

Well that's a load of horse crap.

What did they expect with the artificial manipulation of the markets that over inflated equites created a bubble.

Economics people is cyclical. Bubble.Bust.Bubble. Bust.


2008/9 was simply a market correction to over valued 'goods'.

Anyone with half a brain seen it coming.

The article is satire, you really can't see that? It's an attack on anyone who doesn't believe in leaving the EU, or who presents an argument for staying in.


Hang on a sec, you accuse me of not reading a link i posted, which was clearly a satirical post in line with the OP, then you accuse this person of not getting satire? Do you just like to troll people or something?

Sheesh, you ever heard of the onion?

originally posted by: lakenheath24

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: neo96

"Best to stay in the EU," said Governor Mark Carney. "We failed to predict the 2007/8 crash, the greatest economic downturn in modern history. But we have a great track record when it comes to wind and piss. Trust us."

Well that's a load of horse crap.

What did they expect with the artificial manipulation of the markets that over inflated equites created a bubble.

Economics people is cyclical. Bubble.Bust.Bubble. Bust.


2008/9 was simply a market correction to over valued 'goods'.

Anyone with half a brain seen it coming.

The article is satire, you really can't see that? It's an attack on anyone who doesn't believe in leaving the EU, or who presents an argument for staying in.


Hang on a sec, you accuse me of not reading a link i posted, which was clearly a satirical post in line with the OP, then you accuse this person of not getting satire? Do you just like to troll people or something?

Sheesh, you ever heard of the onion?

Actually, your post wasn't clearly satirical, but I didn't accuse you of anything other than appearing to take headlines seriously. I think you may need to get out more, you seem to be a little agitated.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Haven't you, in effect, highlighted why England DOESNT'T need the EU? It controls its own currency, makes it's own monetary and fiscal policy, etc. Uncertainty in the market will only last a week, or at least until something the next terrorist attack or Kardashian selfie hits the news. I am sure that current contracts with British and EU companies will continue to be filled on schedule.

It's the UK, not England, not Great Britain in this respect either. Why are you sure uncertainty in the markets would only last a week, and current contracts will continue to be filled on schedule? Sorry, is this another of your light hearted posts?

a reply to: uncommitted

No, you accused me of not reading the article. Nice try at turning things in your favor. Nobody is agitated, it's too nice and I just had a great round of golf...no stress here.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Haven't you, in effect, highlighted why England DOESNT'T need the EU? It controls its own currency, makes it's own monetary and fiscal policy, etc. Uncertainty in the market will only last a week, or at least until something the next terrorist attack or Kardashian selfie hits the news. I am sure that current contracts with British and EU companies will continue to be filled on schedule.

It's the UK, not England, not Great Britain in this respect either. Why are you sure uncertainty in the markets would only last a week, and current contracts will continue to be filled on schedule? Sorry, is this another of your light hearted posts?

Ok, my bad on that part....United Kingdom it is then. The only thing I am sure of, is that nobody seems to be sure of anything. I only wanted to know if your remarks didn't show that the UK is already self sufficient? Not a serious question or a funny question....just a question.

Whether or not there is short or longterm uncertainty in the fiscal markets, one thing is for certain, If we stay in the EU we will carry on having laws imposed upon us by an unelected Commission.

That fact is absolutely undeniable.

How can anyone back up a system like that? Hell, it's less democratic than our constitutional Monarchy. At least the Queen and the Lords don't hold the power to propose and repeal laws to the exclusion of the people's representatives.

a reply to: SprocketUK

EU laws become law when agreed by the EU parliament (directly elected) and the EU council (the elected governments of member states).

As I said I am no fan of the EU, but it is not as undemocratic as you are making out.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: SprocketUK

EU laws become law when agreed by the EU parliament (directly elected) and the EU council (the elected governments of member states).

As I said I am no fan of the EU, but it is not as undemocratic as you are making out.

Who proposes the laws, who are the only people who can propose or repeal a law??


Stop dancing around the truth, I'll give you a clue, it is the Commission.. No one else. Go have a look if you don't believe me (Though I suspect you know damn well and just don't want to admit it).

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: SprocketUK

EU laws become law when agreed by the EU parliament (directly elected) and the EU council (the elected governments of member states).

As I said I am no fan of the EU, but it is not as undemocratic as you are making out.

Who proposes the laws, who are the only people who can propose or repeal a law??


Stop dancing around the truth, I'll give you a clue, it is the Commission.. No one else. Go have a look if you don't believe me (Though I suspect you know damn well and just don't want to admit it).

There is a difference between proposing a law and it becoming law.

Did you mean your reply to come across quite as paranoid and aggressive?

This seems to be the fundamental flaw with the whole in/out debate. The majority of the remain camp sound like they should be walking the streets with a sandwich board shouting out that 'we are all doomed' while those campaigning for us to leave sound like they go purple faced and spittle mouthed at the mere thought of Europe.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Proposal of laws is one of the fundamental tenets of democracy though.

If you can't vote for anyone who can propose a law how do you expect to have a say in how you are governed?

Or must we all wait like good little serfs until the old Lord dies and a new one comes along that happens to want the same law as we do?

The European common is appointed by the Council (elected state governments) and approved by the EU parliament (elected directly).

I don't think it is a good system but it is not the totally undemocratic process you are stating.

a reply to: ScepticScot

It absolutely is. Look at the people who get in. People like Kinnock and Mandelson for two...One who was consistently rejected by the electorate and the other who is so dishonest he had to keep resigning from office.

It's my opinion that having people like this deciding what's best for us (or more accurately their foreign counterparts ) is as divorced from democracy as being a small colony of a big empire.

I want to be able to hold my vote over the executive like a headsman's axe, I will never be able to do that as long as the UK stays in the EU.

The fact that it's only leave that thinks it's an issue leads me to believe that remain either don't understand or they do and don't really value democracy (and since most of remain opposed a referendum in the first place I think it's the latter).

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: ScepticScot

It absolutely is. Look at the people who get in. People like Kinnock and Mandelson for two...One who was consistently rejected by the electorate and the other who is so dishonest he had to keep resigning from office.

So the exact same kind of people who get appointed to the lords.

As I said i don't think it's a good system but it's not completely undemocratic and most of the lack of democracy comes from the retention of powers at state level (which I don't think is by itself a bad thing)

To me the problem with the EU is that it is stuck in between being a real European government and being a collection of individual states. A more powerful but also more directly democratic structure would probably work. Equally a weaker more decentralised structure would probably work. The current set up seems to be a bad compromise designed to appeal to too many different nations with too many different views of what they want Europe to be.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The Lord's isn't the executive though. They do not write up new laws. That is done in the commons who are elected by us and can be rejected by us.
Huuuuuuuuuge difference.
Your bit about decentralising holds appeal but the EU is running in the opposite direction entirely.