Gender roles and the effects of shifting these roles on modern day society.

Pre-Historic times are still something of a mystery to us but there are obvious, telling signs of gender roles that date back to every society. There were female warriors and men who dealt mainly with the food supply but generally the signs point to different functions of these archaic societies and reinforce our modern identifications. If we look at the Chumash, we can see clear evidence of a prosperous community that worked together to grow and thrive. Women could be chiefs or priestesses but typically the women and men had different niches and were able to coexist this way for centuries. Archeologist examined many bones of the Chumash people and uncovered evidence to align such theories of gender role existence. Studying the bones they found common injuries that were shared according to gender.

An examination of 967 skeletons from Early, Middle and Late period sites demonstrated different patterns of DJD in the joints of males and females. Early period females had more severe DJD in their spinal columns and knees, while Early period males had more arthritic shoulders, elbows and hands (Walker and Hollimon 1989:176). During the Late period, the sexes had comparable severities of spinal DJD, and both males and females suffered from arthritis in the legs (Walker and HoIlimon 1989:180). On this basis, I examined individual male burials from Santa Cruz Island that displayed a "female" pattern of degenerative joints. It could be argued that men or two·spirits who engaged in the same habitual activities as women might display similar patterns of DJD. Nine male skeletons with moderate to severe spinal arthritis were identified; these burials spanned all prehistoric periods.

Sex, Gender and Health Among the Chumash

This is just one of many examples in society. AGAIN, just because it was common did not mean they could not hold positions of power, just that they traditionally sought to work in harmony and use what is naturally attainable for the benefit of the tribe; or my devout Southern Baptist grandmother so lovingly puts it, they were “using the gifts God gave them”. Moving forward in society, we relied less on a hunter and gatherer lifestyle once humans developed the understanding of baking and irrigation. Once that occurred we no longer had a mass need for nomadic behavior and become a bit more stationary in our environments. This called for a change in roles (which can be seen continuously developing throughout history but also aligning in the sense of duty). Men still hunted and women still “gathered” or prepared, rather. Even up to Renaissance Italy where, in Tuscany, women were predominantly bakers.

Throughout history, men and women have questioned where gender roles are reinforced in our society.

Differences in gender roles could potentially be influenced by differences in the prevalence of warfare across societies. However, a priori, the direction of the effect is unclear (see Whyte, 1978). Involvement in warfare may cause societies to become more hierarchical and male dominated, suggesting a negative relationship between conflict and female work outside the home. On the other hand, being involved in warfare can generate a greater need for female involvement outside of the home. We control for the potential impacts of warfare, by calculating, for each country, the number of years since 1816 (the first year data are available) that the country was involved in either internal or interstate warfare.29 The results, reported in columns 10 and 11, show that the impact of plough use robust to controlling for warfare.30 The last factor that we consider is motivated by the fact that country-level ancestral plough use is affected by historical European migration. European ancestry may have an effect on female labor force participation independent of historical plough use. We address this possibility by controlling for the fraction of each country’s population in 2000 with ancestors that came from Europe.31 As reported in column 12, the estimates remain robust to controlling for European ancestry.

The Origins Of Gender Roles

As a society, we experienced Feminism, then second wave Feminism which have done great things to advance women and provide a state of equality... but at what cost? Could going away from our societal norms of centuries past be harming us biologically and mentally? In the days now where clear lines are blurred, it is important to pole any and all identifying factors in order to determine where the root cause lies.

Among men, 31.2% were androgynous, 26% were masculine, 14.4% were feminine, and 28.4% were undifferentiated; among women, the corresponding percentages were 32.7%, 14.9%, 27%, and 25.4%. Both in men and in women, depressive symptoms (CES-D
16) were more prevalent in those endorsing the undifferentiated type, compared to masculine, feminine or androgynous groups. However, after adjusting for potential confounders, compared to the masculine group only those endorsing the androgynous role were 28% less likely to suffer from depression: PR of 0.72 (95% CI: 0.55–0.93). In fully adjusted models, prevalence rates of depression were not different from masculine participants in the two other gender groups of feminine and undifferentiated

Depression, Sex and Gender Roles

Sex role stereotypes, gender role socialization and men's emphasis on cognitive capabilities rather than interpersonal relationships may also contribute to the differences in men's and women's suicide rates in the past. These factors could make men experience more humiliation in the face of work-related life events like job loss or work problems. Men's suicide rates were at their highest over the past century, for example, during the Great Depression, when many men were unemployed. By contrast, the precipitating life events for women who attempt suicide tend to be interpersonal losses or crises in significant social or family relationships. However, as social roles change for men and women, so may suicide statistics.

Suicide and Gender

In summary, there is strong evidence suggesting that gender roles have always exist and the more we pull away from them the more dangerous it seems to be for our health and well being. We are no longer working together, each doing their part to help society flourish but rather scratching and clawing our own individual ways to the perceived top. Call me "old fashioned" but I believe that we should work together, and by trying to make us "equal" it is putting more strain on us all to change and adapt to these new "social norms".

ALSO

Here are some more interesting reads and free books I found along the way to writing this.

History of the Chumash

Evolution, consequence and the future of plant and animal domestication

Race, Gender, Renaissance Drama

Common Women

InTheLight

Sorry it took me so long to get it posted. I actually wrote the entire thing out and then my browser shut off on me so I gave up until I could sit down on a different computer.

We can learn a lot from the past, but we need to live based on our environment TODAY.

Rather than worry about gender roles and how other people are living their lives, focus on raising your kids based on your beliefs and moral values. Everything else will fall into place.

originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon


Rather than worry about gender roles and how other people are living their lives, focus on raising your kids based on your beliefs and moral values. Everything else will fall into place.

I agree, so lets stop the religious right and the fanatical left from social engineering our society and perpetually trying to force gender neutrality or extreme gender disparity.

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

I don't disagree with the minding of one's own business but when people are being forced to undertake the roles of both men and women alike, we can see the cracks in "equality for all". Women are spending less time at home and more time in the workplace to support their families financially while simultaneously taking lesser paying jobs that fall into a caregiver category. Because women are spending less time, children are getting less one on one attention and thus developing behavior disorders at an alarming rate. It is a downward spiral that needs to be talked about.

Let me start by saying that I've been to the Chumash pow-wow in Santa Barbara a few times and I have a few Chumash friends pretty nice people!

I agree with you.

In nature we have negative and positive charges and as above so below.

These charges play a roll, have character and are given task by the master programmer similar to the way we are. Going on pretending that theres no such thing as male and female and that they are interchangeable to me seems insane.

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

I don't disagree with the minding of one's own business but when people are being forced to undertake the roles of both men and women alike, we can see the cracks in "equality for all". Women are spending less time at home and more time in the workplace to support their families financially while simultaneously taking lesser paying jobs that fall into a caregiver category. Because women are spending less time, children are getting less one on one attention and thus developing behavior disorders at an alarming rate. It is a downward spiral that needs to be talked about.

Wages and employment availability are forcing families, both men and women, to work longer hours and lose family time. What we need to do is help people earn livable wages so that they have the resources to build healthy families. It has nothing to do with traditional gender roles, and everything to do with providing people with the resources to become successful.

As far as being forced to undertake the roles of both men and women alike, I disagree. Antiquated stereotypes aside, parental roles can, and generally should, be shared by both parents. I don't believe in male or female only jobs, and I don't believe in male and female only roles. It's not about gender, it's about being responsible and taking the time to be a good parent.

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

I agree that this issue is causing a lot of suicide as well especially in young men. Many young men are not able to provide in the traditional manner with stable long term employment with decent upward mobility anymore.

This is the attack on the family and culture happening on a massive massive scale. They are really turning up the heat and everyone and I mean everyone is buying into it.

Just look at the thread topics.

a reply to: onequestion

YES! And people who want us to accept their notion of the new norm but not the facts that prevail. As male and female everything about us is different. Our bone structure, our genetic makeup... everything. We all have estrogen and testosterone inside of us and we all have a different balance of those chemicals but that does not change the genetic makeup we are born with. When we try to change that forcibly it becomes an issue. Why do you think that there is a rise in suicide among the transgender population? Because it is acceptable (as it should be) to allow them to make the transition fully, not just play dress up. When they have foreign chemicals invading their bodies, there are obvious emotional and mental consequences. It's very basic logic that is being blatantly ignored by the liberalist community. People who are showing cries for help are being praised as martyrs. Men are in constant fear that they will be viewed as a sex pervert. Women are becoming so "empowered" that they are forgetting how to even be kind to people unless they share the same views.

a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

As male and female everything about us is different. Our bone structure, our genetic makeup... everything.

Thank god too because I LIKE the female attributes. I am a stern, bullheaded man and I would need an emotional, soft woman to counter balance me when raising a child and I would look for that in a woman.

Thinking we are the same is illogical. Its part of a Luciferian agenda to invert natural laws as an attack on the ultimate intelligence of the universe to show that man is god.

I've come to that conclusion after over a decade of research and observation, I can't show this to you in a few articles but you can see it in the actions of the elite. They are ruled by a spiritual evil that believes (them, they, it whatever) is more intelligent and powerful than our creator.

It's very similar Biblical mythology in a way.

a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

As male and female everything about us is different. Our bone structure, our genetic makeup... everything.

Thank god too because I LIKE the female attributes. I am a stern, bullheaded man and I would need an emotional, soft woman to counter balance me when raising a child and I would look for that in a woman.

Thinking we are the same is illogical. Its part of a Luciferian agenda to invert natural laws as an attack on the ultimate intelligence of the universe to show that man is god.

I've come to that conclusion after over a decade of research and observation, I can't show this to you in a few articles but you can see it in the actions of the elite. They are ruled by a spiritual evil that believes (them, they, it whatever) is more intelligent and powerful than our creator.

It's very similar Biblical mythology in a way.

originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

I don't disagree with the minding of one's own business but when people are being forced to undertake the roles of both men and women alike, we can see the cracks in "equality for all". Women are spending less time at home and more time in the workplace to support their families financially while simultaneously taking lesser paying jobs that fall into a caregiver category. Because women are spending less time, children are getting less one on one attention and thus developing behavior disorders at an alarming rate. It is a downward spiral that needs to be talked about.

Wages and employment availability are forcing families, both men and women, to work longer hours and lose family time. What we need to do is help people earn livable wages so that they have the resources to build healthy families. It has nothing to do with traditional gender roles, and everything to do with providing people with the resources to become successful.

As far as being forced to undertake the roles of both men and women alike, I disagree. Antiquated stereotypes aside, parental roles can, and generally should, be shared by both parents. I don't believe in male or female only jobs, and I don't believe in male and female only roles. It's not about gender, it's about being responsible and taking the time to be a good parent.

I fail to see how there are not livable wages if you budget correctly. My mother and I survived a time on minimum wage. I have provided for myself, a guy I was dating and his kid on minimum wage. The problem is that our society becomes so obsessed with things they think they need. You don't NEED the most expensive cell phone. You don't need the name brand food. Healthy eating is actually a lot less expensive than people make it out to be. It's better to buy in bulk. Use coupons. Prepare home made meals. The problem is that people don't want to find solutions only blame things like minimum wage. Not that you are doing that, it just seems that's the trend these days.

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
Pre-Historic times are still something of a mystery to us but there are obvious, telling signs of gender roles that date back to every society.

I tend to find when discussing this topic that its best to go back a bit further, pre-homo sapians.
Well, since we cant find a homo erectus, we can study our cousin primates and see what they think about the whole matter:
Born This Way? Gender-Based Toy Preference

AGAIN, just because it was common did not mean they could not hold positions of power, just that they traditionally sought to work in harmony and use what is naturally attainable for the benefit of the tribe;

So the earnings gap has existed for all time
Just because opportunity is open doesn't mean things become equal..females inherently seek out less powerful, more nurturing roles..yep
and this is also demonstrated in nature.
Check this little article out about male and female lions. its actually pretty impressive
Male Lions Hunt
to sum up, female lions hunt in packs together and take down smaller animals. male lions hunt also, but they stealth hunt for bigger game. they do the spec-op camo hunting in thick underbrush. more complex, harder. They are also the big guns, taking down water buffalos and even the odd elephant.
Male Lions Do you even lift brah
Point is, both are doing the same job, but they do it differently, and in this case, the male is doing the harder and more complex / bigger risk and reward jobs inherently..not out of patriarchal favoritism..just a design of the biology drive

Same with humans...we all work and work hard..but women seek out more social pack hunting and nurturing roles, men go for more intense technical roles with bigger rewards...its just what draws the differences.
When invaders come, in nature, its the male lions that has to go sort that out..females tend to watch over the den while Leo goes off to war. same as in the traditional human household.

Throughout history, men and women have questioned where gender roles are reinforced in our society.

Well, society norms should be questioned from time to time, but there are some basic biological gender norms that define us as a species. you can run tests on other animals (as I pointed out) that show behavioral norms between the dimorphic species.
You can do a quick google for "gender behavior differences in _____(insert random animal species)" and see that behavioral differences are pretty much the norm.

Involvement in warfare may cause societies to become more hierarchical and male dominated, suggesting a negative relationship between conflict and female work outside the home. On the other hand, being involved in warfare can generate a greater need for female involvement outside of the home.

Its been a society norm that when in times of war, women were in charge of all the things at home while men wandered off to get shot.
The above link on the lions show this to be the gender norms also.

In summary, there is strong evidence suggesting that gender roles have always exist and the more we pull away from them the more dangerous it seems to be for our health and well being.

Stats agree with you with women in western countries spiking in suicide rates while their happiness index dismally low
People in general like their gender roles.
I think as a society, we hit a pretty sweet spot in society where there are no laws holding anyone back from being whoever they want to be in their own right. I think however we need to beware of feminists trying to pressure women into choosing careers they dont want to be in, force companies to hire gender over merit, etc and somehow hold to ideals the business woman over the homemaker (when the homemaker is actually statistically a much happier person with a more stable family unit).

One thing to note
People demanding gender is a meaningless society construct (some of it is of course..color preferences and other odd random things that demonstrate feminine or masculine like music and other entertainment) ultimately are suggesting trans people are transitioning into meaningless labels.
Personally I think trans people could very well have a physical brain difference that inherently makes them feel the opposite gender and want to transition into that..I dont think they are just playing fun gender role games, therefore, gender roles aren't just society constructs

Good topic

originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon
We can learn a lot from the past, but we need to live based on our environment TODAY.

Rather than worry about gender roles and how other people are living their lives, focus on raising your kids based on your beliefs and moral values. Everything else will fall into place.

Not helpful to the topic really.

The larger picture is saying your beliefs and moral values are flawed due to it being steeped in traditional gender role mentality, therefore you are doing it wrong and society itself should change to better suit a new genderless / fluid viewpoint.

Sometimes you got to weigh in, and when doing so, its best to have science behind you

a reply to: SaturnFX

People demanding gender is a meaningless society construct (some of it is of course..color preferences and other odd random things that demonstrate feminine or masculine like music and other entertainment) ultimately are suggesting trans people are transitioning into meaningless labels. Personally I think trans people could very well have a physical brain difference that inherently makes them feel the opposite gender and want to transition into that..I dont think they are just playing fun gender role games, therefore, gender roles aren't just society constructs

I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about the trans population. They recognize gender roles and want to conform to those roles which is why the third-wave feminist "solidarity" with their cause makes no sense to me. If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

Super interesting thread so far, thanks for writing. I have a 4 year old daughter and have been a stay-home dad for 3 of those years. It's interesting that in my experience, even people who claim to be forward-thinking progressives seem to have a latent negative bias toward stay-home fathers. I've even had friends say some passive-aggressive things to me about it. I get weird looks from people (at the grocery store, for instance) when I'm putting my daughter in the car. Heaven forbid she actually have one of her (rare) complete meltdowns in public...some folks look like their ready to call the cops. I used to wear my hair kind of shaggy with a grown out beard, and wear thrift store clothes that didn't always fit really well. It didn't take long once I assumed full-time daddy duty to change my look...I got really tired of being looked at with suspicion. Now it's tucked in shirts, khakis, and a clean shave with brylcreem.

originally posted by: MiddleInitial
a reply to: SomeDumbBroad

Super interesting thread so far, thanks for writing. I have a 4 year old daughter and have been a stay-home dad for 3 of those years. It's interesting that in my experience, even people who claim to be forward-thinking progressives seem to have a latent negative bias toward stay-home fathers. I've even had friends say some passive-aggressive things to me about it. I get weird looks from people (at the grocery store, for instance) when I'm putting my daughter in the car. Heaven forbid she actually have one of her (rare) complete meltdowns in public...some folks look like their ready to call the cops. I used to wear my hair kind of shaggy with a grown out beard, and wear thrift store clothes that didn't always fit really well. It didn't take long once I assumed full-time daddy duty to change my look...I got really tired of being looked at with suspicion. Now it's tucked in shirts, khakis, and a clean shave with brylcreem.

I fully believe that anyone can be a stay at home parent. Naturally women have a more predisposed instinct around children but that does not mean that men cannot be just as good, if not, better than someone of the female gender.

Gender aside, as long as kids get some individual attention and have someone who loves them I think it's wonderful when a parent gets the opportunity to stay at home.

originally posted by: SomeDumbBroad
If we are to be "breaking down societal norms" then what would they transition to?

Enter Dakota...


This video is absolutely brilliant though. it shows the major contrast between a progressive "gender terrorist", and a traditional transsexual with rational thought.


...Add:
After putting this in, I just realized how much Blaire (the t-girl in the vid) looks like you. I think she is copying your look.

a reply to: SaturnFX

That was awesome! Thank you for sharing that with me!